..or the first and seventh house axis.

The relationship axis answers the questions: Why in the world would you even WANT to be in a relationship? What is relationship INTENT in the current life? What is the BOTTOM LINE for relationship?

The culture we were born into has only two relationship models. One is the family model. People get married to bring a family in, for the continuity of the generations to follow, and until death do us part. The other model is based on romantic imagery, the quest for the soul mate, couple consciousness, finding the one. We tend to believe if we could find the right partner, everything would be great. There are, as I will show, other valid options besides these two.

The relationship axis is determined by what Rising sign a person has. For example, if a person has Leo Rising, they are on the Leo/Aquarius axis. If a person has Aries Rising, they are on the Aries/Libra axis and so on. The relationship axis is one of the most important parts of the chart. The Rising Sign represents the Personal Identity Project. The Seventh House point represents the Partnership Project, or what doorway a person goes through to experience partnership. Hence, the relationship between the first and seventh house is what is called the relationship axis.

ARIES / LIBRA AXIS

On the Aries/Libra axis RELATIONSHIP IS THE PATH TO GOD. This was called the search for the soul mate, or couple consciousness in the previous culture. This is tricky, because on the surface it looks like if a person could just find the right partner, they would be all right. In fact, it is the creative engagement in partnership that causes one to learn more about oneself. The Aries/Libra path does the most processing. It is designed to do that. It is just as good to have a huge argument as to have everything in happiness and bliss. It is through interaction with the partner that Aries/Libra learn about themselves.

Libra Rising comes into the life to take the training of partnership and relationship. The joke on Libra Rising is, they present themselves to the world as being really interested in conscious relationship, but they automatically draw Aries on the seventh house. The type of partner most likely to come in is the type least likely to be interested in processing the relationship. The Aries type is the independent free spirit; the man or woman who knows who they are. On a logical level, why would a person ostensibly interested in relationship draw the type that isnt? Ultimately, this is how the Libra Rising person learns. If they drew someone who was already knowledgeable about relationship, there wouldnt be a learning process. The shadow side of the Libra/Aries is when they are feeling superior because they are into conscious relationship and they tell their partner they are a bad partner because the partner wont do what they want them to do. The Libra/Aries path is here to choose relationship as the most potent path to learn more about oneself. Its a subtle difference. It doesnt mean if the Libra/Aries person finds a partner they are home free. What it does mean is, through constant creative interchanges with equals, they can learn more about themselves. Another way of saying it is: THE PARTNER IS THE MANTRA. In meditation, the instruction is, if you are off the mantra, go back to the mantra. For the Libra/Aries path, if you are off the partner, go back to the partner. It is a process of constantly refining the awareness through interaction with a partner.

Even though the relationship intent is the same for Aries Rising and Libra Rising, there is still a slight difference between them. Totally separate from relationship, the mystery school of Aries Rising is to go at life as if doing it for the first time. It is what Christ meant when he said, In order to enter the kingdom of heaven, you must enter as a small child. Learning about trust, innocence, and courage, is the Aries path. However, on the relationship path, the intent for Aries and Libra Rising is the same. Partnership itself is the path to God.

TAURUS / SCORPIO AXIS

This is the path of the Sacred Consort, or tantra. The bottom line is, LIFE FORCE ENERGY ITSELF. Its the path that has most to do with sexuality and life force energy. For those who are on the Taurus/Scorpio axis, there is a very simple way of telling if you are in the right relationship. Are your batteries getting charged? Is there an increase in life force energy? If the answer is no, you are probably in the wrong relationship. Taurus/Scorpio is not a giver place. It is not a place where one is drained at the end. The relationship intent is to fully experience the current of life with the partner. If a person has Taurus or Scorpio Moon it represents what they were up to in the past. Those with Taurus or Scorpio Rising have as their bottom line to be fully into the current of life, or on the tantric path.

Lets look at a husband and wife who have been married for years. In a lot of ways the marriage works quite nicely. The husband is a good provider, and they are committed to each other. They have some of the same intellectual interests. They get along well with each other on a day to day basis, but since the first six months of the marriage the sex hasnt been that good. Now if one or both partners are on the Taurus/Scorpio axis, the day the sex wasnt good anymore and they didnt work on it, was when the commitment to the relationship was broken. Waiting several years to do something about it is far above and beyond the call of duty, because the reason those two people are in relationship is to profoundly experience life force energy. Marriage for people on this axis is the tantric path through the methodology or modality called primary partnership.

When looking at the issue of sexuality, it seems human beings can be divided up into three categories, about on third each. I do not have percentages to back this up, but it works out to be approximately one third for each category. One third of human beings are pair bonders for life, or would like to be. Another one third of human beings are into serial monogamy. Serial monogamy is when someone can only be fully intimate with one person at a time, but they tend to have a series of relationships. In these speeded up times, an intimate relationship may last only two weeks, but the reality is they cannot be with more than one person at a time. The last third of human beings are fully capable of being intimate with more than one person at a time. Each of these three categories can be done well or done poorly. In the third category a person could be an insensitive, exploitive, promiscuous person, or they could be a person with a great deal of integrity, intending that every connection they have is a healing situation, or they are involved with other partners who are also, like themselves, wanting to experience divinity by sharing their life force energy.

The Taurus/Scorpio path does not frequently show up as a pair bonder primary partnership, but it can. For example, if someone has a Libra Moon, they have a past life history that is pair bonder for life. That is what the person was a master and adept in. Now they come in with Taurus/Scorpio and they say; All right I am not really good at this, but why not go beyond pure formality, and really experience what is possible in a pair bonding situation, taking the life force energy to the highest. Now what if somebody has an Aries Moon, Gemini Sun, Scorpio Rising, and Taurus on the seventh. It is extremely unlikely that person is going to choose marriage to one person. What that person is more likely to do, in a positive way, is to become the tantra teacher, or the tantrika, or the person who has lots of connections done well. The point is, what a person does with the axis is dependent upon other factors.

GEMINI / SAGITTARIUS AXIS

Gemini Rising or Sagittarius Rising is the PATH OF THE QUEST MATE OR THE TRAIL MATE. They desire to be with someone who is there to support them in their spiritual quest, and is into their own independent quest for the truth. On this path they might be out riding the trail, and every other night sharing the same tent. It does not look like the traditional couple situation. There is a lot of space, and freedom. How does one on this path know if they are in the right relationship? They should feel a sense of space, a sense of freedom, and that their own priority, which is the quest for the truth, is honored. This is not a relationship path recognized by consensus reality.

CANCER / CAPRICORN AXIS

Throughout the ages, the Cancer/Capricorn PATH IS THE MOST CONCERNED WITH THE SEVEN GENERATIONS TO FOLLOW, and bringing a family in. It is the traditional conservative path. At the Turning of the Ages, those with Cancer/Capricorn Rising have to simultaneously be revolutionaries and conservatives. Revolutionary in the sense of totally disconnecting from what the previous culture believed to be the content of family. Cancer Rising is here to figure out what family will look like in the next age. Their job is to discover new ways of doing family and roots. It means defining who your real family is, and being committed to them. The definition of nurturing and commitment from the perspective of Cancer is to be committed to caring for the seed until it grows to what for it is maturity. It could be a literal child, or it could be anything else that takes a seed form.

The Pluto in Cancer generation, from 1912 to 1939, had marvelous ideals about family, security, commitment, and the seven generations to follow, but an all too common trait of that generation was Cancer overkill. The problem for many with Pluto in Cancer is they never let go, and the initiations to separate the children from the parents never took place. The downside, or immature version of Cancer is found in the example of the mother who has a child and abandons it. Somewhere between complete abandonment and over possessiveness is Cancer balance. Commitment to the seed until it grows to maturity. If there is anything this culture currently needs, its revision on a deep level of how to do family.

Where in this world is it safe to not know anything? Where is it safe to be a child? I am defining child as when a person comes into the life not knowing anything. Even an enlightened master who decides to incarnate again, comes in initially not remembering his past, not knowing anything. Most people dont think about this, but when they incarnate, there is just as much a surrender and a letting go, as there is when they die. When people die they have to give it all up, same thing happens when they incarnate, they have to give it all up. A person cannot remember their pedigree, or their high attainments. They have to let go of it and come in innocent as a child. Where is it safe for the children? There is a growing awareness of the extreme dysfunctionalism of the family in our culture. Therefore, the grand project is to revise what family is, and to make it safe, at the Turning of the Ages, for all children.

Many of us have been involved in some kind of a consciousness group, or New Age group. Almost without exception, its not long before we discover even those groups are not safe places; its not long before we discover what the agenda is. What I am proposing is a complete overhauling, down to the bottom line, about how to make a safe space for the children, including the inner child of adults. There are not any real experts on this at the Turning of the Ages. At the ending of an age, or the Turning of the Ages, the old operating manual is being replaced, and it is all up for grabs.

LEO / AQUARIUS AXIS

This is the MOST RADICAL AXIS OF ALL OF THEM. The healthy Leo/Aquarius says to their prospective partner, I am really fine on my own and I dont need you. And the prospective partner says, Yes, I know, and I am really fine on my own, and I dont need you either. Then at that moment a spark ignites between them and they say, But wouldnt it be incredible, if we chose to have this dynamic dance, because we can do it out of complete freedom and choice. Both people then recognize each other to be masters; perfectly capable of handling their own lives. They choose to be together because they have found the most powerful person they could find. They can empower and promote their partners, as well as their own, uniqueness and individuality. This is a path, absolutely designed to break apart old versions of codependency or couple consciousness.

I believe the emerging paradigm for all relationship paths is Leo/Aquarius regardless of what a persons actual relationship path is. The people with Leo or Aquarius Rising have two ways to approach the relationship issue; depending on their previous addictions, and depending on where they are coming from in their past life themes. If the Leo/Aquarius Rising person is into old style relationship, they will continue to choose to be in relationships with people who bust them of those addictions. If they are not addicted to old style relationships, then often their job is to attract people into their lives who are, and then bust them.

VIRGO / PISCES AXIS

THIS IS THE PATH OF THE HELPMATE. The bottom line for Pisces/Virgo is finding someone who is equally dedicated to the work. For those on the Virgo/Pisces axis who are in a relationship they are obsessed with, to the point that the other person is all they think about, to the detriment of the work; it is the wrong relationship. The point of the Pisces/Virgo axis is to have a partner that is equally dedicated to the work. The partner doesnt have to do the same work, but they must have the same attitude about the work.

Jung defines the work as when a person gets up in the morning, and they absolutely know what they are doing is what they were born to do. When a person knows what the work is for them, it is far more important than fame, position, money, security, or any of the rest of it. People who survive Aids are the ones who know what the work is for them, because they have a sense of purpose; they know what they are contributing. The work is more important than the relationship itself. Any relationship that distracts Pisces/Virgo from knowledge of the work is an inappropriate relationship. The relationship is there to support the work. For Pisces Rising there isnt anything they have to prove. There is nothing more that has to be accomplished. Their life is a give back, an offering, in terms of what they already know. The work is what they really like to do.

USEFUL APPLICATION

When all the cards are on the table you can make a conscious, informed and realistic choice about what kind of relationship you want and whether or not to be in a relationship or partnership with a particular person. Youll know what your priority and your intention is. You no longer need to waste a lot of years in illusion and hoping the other person will change. i.e. Your relationship axis is Cancer/Capricorn: householder, committed, responsible and community oriented, feeling oriented. Your partners axis is Gemini/Sagittarius: non-householder, on the trail, questing for the truth, intuitive function takes precedence over the feeling function. You love each other. You have a lot of challenges around space and freedom, commitment and life together because you want different things and have different intentions. You want to be together NO MATTER WHAT and you are committed to working it out creatively. You now know more about what the other needs and what their intention for relationship is, therefore you can create a conscious relationship that works based on being informed!

There is no rule that says one axis cannot be with another one; although you can begin to see some are more logically designed to get along together. This is why it is so important to know what the relationship intent is. If a person has the Cancer/Capricorn axis and they are with someone who has the Sagittarius/Gemini axis, serious negotiations have to take place to make that combination work, otherwise they each wind up projecting their agenda onto the other person

At first this may seem like a complex system, but actually its not. This is meant to be an introduction to more extensive work with this material. To me, what is most exciting about this material is how it gives people permission to feel good about who they really are. There are many ways of being and all of them are equally valid. There is a complex maze of many different known parts and they can all work well in relationship, or they can present many interesting challenges. In some cases, a relationship not working is the greatest thing that can happen, because it gives rise to the necessity to do the sacred marriage. Something we all have to do eventually anyway, because, ultimately, there isnt anybody out there. Relationship or the lack of it is one way to get the sacred marriage teachings.

---------taken from Shamanic Astrology

-- Debra (shamanic@astrology.com), June 14, 2000

Answers

Using the astrological material there are three valid reasons for monogamy.

One is the Libra/Aries, where the relationship becomes the spiritual technique.

The second reason is Cancer/Capricorn, where the bottom line is to maintain the integrity of the family.

The third possibility is the Scorpio/Taurus version. The purpose of Scorpio/Taurus is to respond to energy. If you responded to an energy that was the most powerful energy you could ever image, you might not notice any other for thirty years. Sometimes it is called defacto monogamy. :)

-- Debra (shamanic@astrology.com), June 14, 2000.

Debra, you said,

Using the astrological material there are three valid reasons for monogamy.

As a fourth reason, maybe one just likes the look of the grain better than walnut or oak.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 15, 2000.

How does one discover his Rising sign?

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), June 15, 2000.

Hi Bingo,

To find your Rising Sign you need your birth month, day and year. Also the time you were born and the location of your birth. You can GO HERE and plug in the info to find your Rising Sign. Will you let us know?

I am on the Virgo/Pisces axis but how I wish I were on the Leo/Aquarius axis. The author believes the emerging paradigm for all relationship paths is Leo/Aquarius regardless of what a persons actual relationship path is so maybe my wish will come true anyway!

BTW - Here is the link to the EMOTICON THREAD we were talking about in chat. Enjoy!

Hello Frank,

If one likes the look of the grain better than walnut or oak then perhaps one is on the Aries/Libra axis. It is the path of creative engagement in partnership, the path that does the most processing. It requires a knowledge of the grain.

Excites quote of the Day: "Faith and doubt both are needed - not as antagonists, but working side by side - to take us around the unknown curve." -Lillian Smith, American author (1897-1966).

Perhaps you can soften your thoughts on astrology this time around and travel the "unknown curve" with us for awhile? I'm really curious - what is your Rising Sign? On what axis are you? AND - does any of it ring true for you?

-- Debra (shamanic@astrology.com), June 15, 2000.

Debra,

Thanks for the interesting info. I'm ASC 29 degrees Taurus but fit the Gemini-Sag axis better. Do have some elements of the Taurus-Scorpio though. Uranus sitting on the Ascendant, opposing Sun, Moon, Jupiter, Mercury in Sag-7th house. Interesting but frustrating, too. Never a dull moment in my life, but a little stability would be nice. My marital cycle seems to be about 6 years.

-- Rick (you@know.who.I.really.am), June 15, 2000.

Thanks for the links Debra. I don't know all that info off the top of me bean. I'll have to dig out a birth certificate.

My curiosity is piqued!

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), June 15, 2000.

Debra,

I don't know what a "rising sign" is, but I'm a Taurus (which my wife says causes bull-headedness :-) ).

On astrology, it's kind of hard for me to soften my views on it. I lump it in with phrenology. People made an effort at examining their environment, but they were wrong on more than one occasion, just as science is today. Astrology is one of those failures. I can't see how the paths of the planets would have any bearing human events (with the exception of tides from the moon. It may have made sense when the planets were deities, but not now.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 15, 2000.

I followed the link you provided, Debra. Unfortunately I don't have a record of the time of birth. Bummer.

-- Bingo1 (howe9@shentel.net), June 15, 2000.

Frank,

I heard a Silicon Valley geek floating the thought that maybe certain character traits are due to the influence of seasonal changes in effect at birth, not the paths of the planets. I thought it was an interesting theory, especially coming from a guy who can't tolerate 'fuzzy logic'.

-- flora (***@__._), June 16, 2000.

Frank sez: "I'm a bull-headed Taurus and (apparently) proud of it...but I don't give astrology any credence whatsoever."

Contradictions abound, eh Frankie-Boy?

-- LunaC (LunaC@LunaC.com), June 17, 2000.

Hi Frank,

Hopefully you know your birth time and your wife's birth time. GO HERE and plug in that info. You'll get both your rising signs.

Please come back and let us know---what your signs are, how you think they fit, if you've gained any insights.

My ex-husband of 15 years is on the Cancer/Capricorn axis. I am on the Virgo/Pisces axis. His relationship intent is family, mine is a help-mate for "the work."

When our family was young the relationship worked out well. As an astrologer put it to me: "Your Pisces MOON, being a "giver", enables you to do the family thing. It is NOT a learning experience for you, you ALREADY know it and do it without thinking. As long as you work from that you support HIS relationship intent."

The astrologer went on to say: "As we get older we start "doing" our Rising sign more. As you became older you began to seek your own "work." Not that family became unimportant but your "work" needed it's place.

I had already been on a sort of "spiritual quest" for about 2 years, mainly in the form of the mind-body connection in the area of health. My whole family benefited from it. Again supporting his relationship intent.

The problems really started when I naturally began seeking "my time, my space and my thoughts." In other words - MY relationship intent required his aknowledgment of my interest in something IN ADDITION TO the family. I had to face the fact that I was not in a relationship that would support that. What was worse was that he actively fought it.

When I became aware of the relationship axis I was amazed at how accurate it was. It fit our relationship perfectly. How about everyone else? What insights, if any, did it give you?

Bingo,

You should try to search out your birth time. Do you have any baby books where the time might be recorded? Have you tried calling the hospital where you were born? Maybe they have some old micro-films or something? How about family members who might remember, even approximately, the time? The Rising Sign is determined by 2 hour intervals so you can get a good idea with something like - "early morning or late afternoon."

Rick,

There seems to be two schools of thought on the cusp in astrology. One says that you are either one or the other no matter how late or early the degree. The other says you take on the energies of both. Maybe Future Shock or Luna C. can give us their input?

-- Debra (shamanic@astrology.com), June 17, 2000.

Debra,

Thanks. I would say that I am most definitely a mixture of both, so I would tend to believe in that theory.

-- Rick (isit@really.inthe.stars?), June 17, 2000.

Rick,

I'd begin by really getting to know the Taurus/Scorpio cusp if I were you. Maybe your "6 year cycle" has to do with NOT honoring that axis enough!

-- Debra (shamanic@astrology.com), June 17, 2000.

Sorry Rick - I meant to say the Taurus/Scorpio AXIS not Cusp.

-- Debra (shamanic@astrology.com), June 17, 2000.

Debra,

Thanks. I think my problem is that I'm trying to break free of the Taurus/Scorpio stuff and get on with the Gemini/Sag stuff. What I lack is a spritual partner, not the other type. I think my wife might be a Virgo/Pisces type. She has Virgo and Pisces predominant in her chart, either moon, ascendant or both. She is a good family person but is too conventional and not interested in what I consider to be spiritual growth/seeking. I'd give up hope, but that good ole Uranus sitting on my ascendent in oppostion to so many other planets does produce some interesting experiences, not all of them pleasant though. I guess that's why I am attracted to Aquarius ladies.

-- flash (flash@flash.hq), June 17, 2000.

Debra - There seems to be two schools of thought on the cusp in astrology. One says that you are either one or the other no matter how late or early the degree. The other says you take on the energies of both.

I've found that the later the degree, the more likely there will be a blend of energies but the sign that has the most planets in it will most likely be predominant. In Rick's case, a preponderance of planets in the Taurus/Sag axis is a BIG deciding factor.

Rick - As for your 6 year relationship cycle, I'm guessing that you're responding to Jupiter in your 7th house. Jupiter has a 12 year cycle of expansion/contraction and you may be responding to the conjunctions and oppositions of this planet, hence the changes that occur at the start and midpoint.

-- LunaC (LunaC@LunaC.com), June 17, 2000.

DUH - I meant to say Taurus/Scorpio above. I need to wake up a bit more before posting. lol

BTW, Rick - you do know what they say about Scorpio's bedroom talents, doncha'? (evil, winking grin - lol)

And thanks for a very interesting post, Debra!

-- LunaC (LunaC@LunaC.com), June 17, 2000.

Debra-

Thanks for the post. It is food for thought and something I can keep in my synastry bag of tricks. I, in my own work, tend to examine synastry more in terms of the placements of the personal planets and neptune-especially neptune and venus.

Neptune is the planet of the collective unconcscious and represents the desire to merge with the "oneness"-It is the source of the feelings we get when we feel like we have become a "part of" our new found lover. Venus of course is the goddess of love, beauty, etc. Of course I also look at mars and venus aspects-to see if they are well aligned. So looking at the axis would be a part of this process.

Rick-

LunaC brings up an interesting point about the Jupiter cycle-However, I would be curious to know three things; where is chiron in your chart, what aspects does uranus make to venus, and where is Neptune.

As it is, your life is full of enough surprises with all that uranian energy. I could go on all day about what the energy of those oppositions does, but I am more interested in examining that 6 year thingee.

Did you ever have a business partnership that went south very quickly after a good deal of success? I would expect that with your chart. With the stellium in the seventh house, partnerships are vital to your life-partnerships of every kind. With all that energy there, I woudl suspect the key to your success is finding the right partner in all you do-not just love relationships.

-- FutureShock (gray@matter.think), June 17, 2000.

FS and LunaC,

Thanks for the scoop. I'll have to dig out my chart and see if I can find where Chiron is. The stuff about the 6 year cycle and the 7th house is interesting. I would also agree about the partnership advice. My problem has always been that I seem to learn, grow, and change from all of the events in my life, where my partners don't seem to. And yes, I have had a couple of business deals go South suddenly after appearing to be very successful. Fortunately my Sagittarius luck usually bails me out and I land back on my feet with something even better. But, I've learned to be rather wary and not as trusting as my Sagittarius self might otherwise be. I sure wouldn't wish Uranus opposing one's Sun, Moon, and Jupiter on anyone else. Interesting and exciting, but not very restful or stable. I must have been a rascal in some past life!

LunaC, yes I'm quite familiar with Scorpio's sexual attributes and fortunately seem to have inherited some of the good ones. However, I have South Node in Scorpio and have "tangled" with many Scorpionic women. Although fun, I now avoid them like the plague whenever I can detect such influence in advance. Fortunately, again my Sag luck seems to protect me over all, and it was their loss if they decided to sting me. Usually it was over them wanting to own or possess me and me not liking the idea. I really prefer women with Cancer and Pisces influences rather than Scorpios. Scorpio is too obcessed with sex, whereas I am more interested in spiritual union through physical union (and other ways, too). Of course a little "fun sex" is good for the soul, too!

I know that a lot of folks think that this is all baloney. Others are totally absorbed by it. I'm somewhere in the middle. At a scientific level it seems crazy. However after dabbling in it for years and using it as a tool to genuinely try and understand people, rather than as a power over them, I have found it to be helpful and useful.

Incidentally, I think that you folks are quite good at this stuff based on my years of observation and dabbling. FS, I'd love to have even a manuscript of your book when it is close to being ready!

-- Rick (lightweight@astro.guy), June 17, 2000.

Rick - FS mentioned that "the key to your success is finding the right partner in all you do-not just love relationships." This is particularly important with the 7th house also representing *legalities*. While your Sag energy may previously have helped land you on your feet, a planet in the 7th that's badly inflicted by transit can get you into a heap of trouble if you're not careful. I'd advise you to avoid signing documents when your 7th house Mercury is retrograde (which I'd recommend to anyone when Mercury is Rx but more particularly with your chart's configuration.)

Fortunately, again my Sag luck seems to protect me over all, and it was their loss if they decided to sting me

Your good fortune may be partially attributed to Sag but I've found that the *stars* are also good indicators of protective elements too. (I can post more details on this if anyone is interested.) Conversely, the "malevolent" stars are also very revealing. For example, some years ago I discovered a direct correlation with the "malevolent" stars in a chart that correlated with a propensity towards a violent personality and it was very helpful in answering relationship questions where a woman was questioning the abberant behavior of her mate.

At a scientific level it seems crazy.

I think Nietzche summarizes this concept best: "The irrationality of a thing is no argument against its existence, rather a condition of it." lol

-- LunaC (LunaC@LunaC.com), June 17, 2000.

Lunacy, you said,

Frank sez: "I'm a bull-headed Taurus and (apparently) proud of it...but I don't give astrology any credence whatsoever."

Contradictions abound, eh Frankie-Boy?

Lunacy, if you're going to be rude, at least bother to read what you're commenting on, then you won't come to such ridiculous conclusions.

BTW, remember that my Lunacology predictions (of the market) are 100% correct so far, didn't you say the market was going to bottom out at the end of May or some such?

And no, I don't give "astrology" any credence whatsoever.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 17, 2000.

Looks like the Nietzche quote applies to Frankie-Boy too!

-- LunaC (Laughing@FrankieBoy.yawn), June 17, 2000.

LOL .... An astrology thread would not be an astrology thread without the communication between Frank and LunaC!

Frank,

For the sake of the "unknown curve" how about posting your astrological profile? Let's see what's there and how it may fit. What say you?

Rick,

A few tidbits that may help 

--You speak of Virgo types or Scorpio types. In Shamanic Astrology it is about INTENT. As an example take twelve women who all have Venus in Scorpio; they are not all the same, but they all have the same intent. Depending on a lot of different factors, they may have already grown into the energy, or they may still be working on it. If you remember that each energy can be used positively or negatively, depending on growth, you will see that not all Scorpios sting and not all Virgos are conservative.

--You said:

I think my problem is that I'm trying to break free of the Taurus/Scorpio stuff and get on with the Gemini/Sag stuff.

You cant break free of energies you own. Even if the dont work they are still a part of your psyche, and there is a way to integrate and incorporate them into your life.

--A little perspective on oppositions - An opposition is likened to constantly being under a full moon. The person is definitely more aware of what the situation is. A square can be explained with the phrase: Crisis in Action. Something has to give, but generally the person doesnt know what it is. It is like being blind-sighted. Unlike the opposition, the square does not have as much awareness of the situation. So the squares usually involve circumstances that cannot be prepared for. Something must happen to break apart the status quo. For example, a Saturn square is experienced as a lot more unfair than a Saturn opposition, even though they are both unfair, because the opposition has greater awareness about what is going on.

--There are some portions of the population who actually enjoy Uranus. These are the people who are really into change, and not into anything that represents conservative type things, or holding onto crystallized patterns. People, who love change, like Uranus strategy. They roll with the punches. Uranus strategy is to roll with the punches, and trust in the fact that when you do, it is taking you in the direction you need to go. Treat every experience with an open hand. No attachment to anything is possible.

If two people are in a relationship and one person has a natal chart loaded with Uranus strategy and the other person has a natal chart loaded with Capricorn or Saturn (which means they like commitment, stability, attachment, and consistency), the two innate personalities are contrary to each other. The only people responsibly oriented that can handle an encounter with a Uranus type are those who thrive on polarity.

OTOH-if a person has a basic temperament that is stable and predictable and they are hit with a Uranus cycle, they probably wont enjoy it very much. The generational Uranus opposition cycle that occurs around age 38-39 is one of the most important cycles we encounter. (I ended a 15-year marriage at age 39)

-- Debra (shamanic@astrology.com), June 17, 2000.

Debra challenged Frankie: For the sake of the "unknown curve" how about posting your astrological profile? Let's see what's there and how it may fit. What say you?

Considering that Frankie's (ahem) humor is akin to someone who finds whoopee cushions and plastic puke hilariously entertaining, I wouldn't advise trusting him to provide you with correct birth data. FS and I discussed - and quickly dismissed - the concept of doing an accurate reading of Frankie's chart long ago for this exact reason. Frank simply enjoys playing the close-minded, juvenile buffoon far too much when it comes to astrology discussions for him to shift gears at this juncture.

(And off in the distance another insightful quote floats in the breeze... "Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig." lol)

The generational Uranus opposition cycle that occurs around age 38-39 is one of the most important cycles we encounter. (I ended a 15-year marriage at age 39)

Excellent point - what many term a "Midlife Crisis" is simply the outer planets moving into position to create necessary shifts in the Life Path.

-- LunaC (Laughing@Frankie.yawn), June 17, 2000.

Debra,

Thanks for the interesting info! I really appreciate the information that you, FS, and LunaC provide. I'm definitely up for anything you folks care to expound upon.

Fortunately I have learned to "roll with the punches" and actually do enjoy a lot of what the Uranian energy brings me. However I suspect that the Uranian energy is a lot more compatible with Gemini and Sag energy than with Taurus. Good thing I'm sort of a Renaissance kind of guy.

LunaC,

You said "I've found that the *stars* are also good indicators of protective elements too. (I can post more details on this if anyone is interested.) Conversely, the "malevolent" stars are also very revealing." YES, I'd certainly like to hear more about the *stars* influences!

-- Rick (astrology@points.the.way), June 17, 2000.

Lunacy, you said,

Considering that Frankie's (ahem) humor is akin to someone who finds whoopee cushions and plastic puke hilariously entertaining,

Boy did you get my number right! Nothing livens up the day like a whoope cushion and plastic Vomit, especially when used in combination!!

Seriously though, *I* didn't tell you to waste your life on this crap, so why take your bitterness out on me? You're not dead yet, so it's not too late. Why not start acting like an adult, suck it up & admit your mistakes, and start doing something productive with yourself? Believe me, it's much more fulfilling than what you're doing now. However, like most things in life, it's your call.

Anyway, good luck to you,

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 18, 2000.

Seriously though, *I* didn't tell you to waste your life, so why take your bitterness out on me? You're not dead yet, so it's not too late. Why not start acting like an adult, suck it up & admit your mistakes, and start doing something productive with yourself? Believe me, it's much more fulfilling than what you're doing now. However, like most things in life, it's your call.

Okay, Frankie-Boy...put the mirror down and back away slowly...very, v-e-r-y slowly, and nobody gets hurt.

C'mon, Frankie-Boy...I said... put... the MIRROR... *DOWN*!!!

-- LunaC (Laughing@Gotcha.FrankieBoy), June 18, 2000.

Lunacy, you *basically* said,

I know you are but what am I?

Wow what a snappy comeback, you must be the tallest kid in second grade.

Really Lunacy, get over it.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), June 18, 2000.

Rick - Here's the info on the stars and other "critical degrees" that I've accumulated from various sources over time. (Use an orb of 1 degree. Stars/degrees are most powerful when conjunct or in opposition)

- 0 Aries Freedom, new beginnings, starting point.

- 6 Aries "Life and Death" degree brings situations to a critical point. A do-or-die approach if often needed.

- 6 Taurus Indicates scars and enemies. Does not enhance a situation. (Has the character of Mars/Saturn)

- Algol 26 Taurus Most malevolent. Can indicate accidents to the throat or neck (hanging, beheading, strangulation or wounds to throat). With Mars, Saturn, Uranus or the Sun, indicates violence or great physical danger (Often found in criminal maps and questions about murder.) Can bring difficulty and danger. (Has the character of Saturn/Mars/Pluto)

- Alcyone 29 Taurus The "Weeping Sisters" or something to cry about. A Star of Sorrow (has the nature of Mars and the Moon) it brings sadness and endings.

- 29 degrees of any sign Brings endings, and frequently in a sad way. A wrapup of a situation, and the degree lends itself to false hopes. Often what is lost in one sign is gained by the opposition sign. Being at the end of a rope concerning the situations of the house represented, or of the planet action.

- Aldebaran 8 Gemini 50 Indicator of war and violence. Associated with Mars.

- Rigel 17 Gemini A degree of impotence. This doesn't necessarily refer to a sexual situation, although it can. Usually it means nothing is going to happen in that area. Everything is at a standstill.

- Sirius 13 Cancer Known as the "Dog Star", man's best friend can lick a hand or bite your fingers off so consider it carefully. Often brings accidents.

- Castor 19 Cancer 30 Can indicate a crippling of limbs if the Ascendant, Midheaven, 1st House ruler, Sun, or Moon is afflicted (especially if afflicted by Saturn, Uranus or Neptune). Can also indicate mental illness.

- Asellus 6 Leo 30 Indicates "blindness" if the Sun or Moon are involved or if the rising sign if afflicted. "Blindness" can be a problem with the eyes but many times, especially with a lunation chart, it shows that one is not seeing something clearly. Look again - something is being missed.

- 22 Leo Indicates loss of control caused by outside influences. Helplessness.

- Regulus 29 Leo Good fortune. If rising or conjunct the Midheaven and Jupiter or the Sun, can bring someone to high office and great power. (If afflicted, will bring power but the career will end in sudden disgrace, deposition or violent death.) Has the character of Mars/Jupiter.

- Vindemiatrix 8 Libra 50 Fateful when conjunct the Nodes. Often found in charts of mystics and occultists. Also known as the "Widow Star". When any planet, the Nodes, the Ascendant or the Midheaven is conjunct or opposed, the individual should not marry. Connotes being left alone and "holding the bag".

- Spica 23+ Libra Benevolent. Nearly always adds hope, help and luck. (Has the character of Venus/Mars.)

- Arcturus 24 Libra Acts as a Protector and brings victory in war. (Has the character of Mars/Jupiter.)

- North Scale 18 Scorpio 30 Tragedy if aspected by malefics.

- Antares 8 Sag 30 Can bring loss, death, disgrace.

- Ras Algethi 17 Sag Another degree of impotence. Nothing is going to happen - everything is at a standstill.

- Aculeus 25 Sag Indicator of blindness - eye problems or not seeing a sitution clearly.

- Acumen 28 Sag Indicator of blindness - eye problems or not seeing a situation clearly.

- Facies 7 Capricorn 30 Indicator of blindness - eye problems or not seeing a situation clearly.

- Vega 15 Capricorn Brings good fortune. (Has the character of Venus/Neptune/Mercury)

- Fomalhaut 3 Pisces Malefics can indicate an inherited illness.

- Achernar 15-16 Pisces A drowning degree. Under water and it is all over, but more likely - in a monthly chart - one is drowned by the situation. It is more than you can or wish to handle. Being snowed under. If Mars is involved, be cautious of the possibility of an actual physical drowning.

- Markab 23 Pisces Unhappiness, sorrow and tragedy through no fault of your own. If conjunct malefics in the 4th, 8th, or 12th house it can bring a tragic fate to loved ones.

- Scheat 28 Pisces 30 Malevolent. On the Midheaven it can show people condemned to death, life imprisonment or bondage.

Several years ago I was the Facilitator for battered women support groups. I was curious to see what the women in the group may have had in common in their charts but when I compared them with one another, there was nothing consistent to indicate a predisposition to being co-dependent with their batterers. So I looked to the charts of their partners and amazingly, the men all had not one but *several* interactions with "malefics" and violent degrees. It's almost like they programmed themselves to enter this plane with an evil intent.

When I compared the stars/critical degrees with all the other charts I had on file for both males and females (which were numerous!) the clustering of malefics wasn't there! The most I picked up was an inherited illness, a couple of cases of bad eyesight, and a better understanding as to why certain people seemed to lead "a charmed life" when benefics were involved. -g-

-- LunaC (Laughing@FrankieBoy.juvenile), June 18, 2000.

For reference only

-- We shall see (Howling@the.moon), June 26, 2000.