Nguoi Tau nghi ve VN, va VN nghi ve Taugreenspun.com : LUSENET : Vietnamese American Society : One Thread
Nguoi Tau nghi ve VN Let me clearify some confusion: befor 1900s, in East Asia there is no clear conception of nation-state, most of them are dynasty, the border and territory changed often. Many years , VietNam is part of China( to be exactly Chinese dynasty). In Han dynasty of China, VietNam and Korea are part of Han Dynasty, be then you can't say China 'occpied' VietNam, because VIetNam as a nation haven't formed yet. The Last time that China annex vietNam is in Ming Dynasty (estimate 500-600 years ago). I am not intend to defence for the old China dynasties, but you can't judge the old age by current standard. After VietNam become an independent country in 1945, China definitly have no ambition to occupy VietNam, the war begined in 1979 is just intend to punish the wrongdoing of VietNam government.
.) China doesn't want to waste nuclear weapons against an insect state like Vietnam.
You think China can't take vietnam? We don't need to. We nuke Hanoi into the dust. You want to try and do something? You don't have connections with the international police [America]. You're on America's bad side. They're about the only international force that stops China. They don't give a shit about your crap land. It's by China's mercy that a space between Cambodia and the Pacific Ocean called Vietnam exists.
2.) By shooting the Vietnamese pirates, we wasted bullets... it shouldn't have been a machine gun. They should have just used an antiship missile.
3.) Your posts about the nonexistent greatness of Vietnam when it only became an actual independent country [not a protectorate, not a vassal, a truly independent nation] in the past 50 years is sort of idiotic. Not to mention Vietnam is one of the poorest nations in Southeast Asia... (day la su that, vi sao???)
Tra loi cua mot nguoi Viet yeu nuoc:
.. can tell that you are obviously one of those inferior southern Chinese who fled to Vietnam many generations ago to escape the brutality of the more barbaric northen Chinese. And then you got kicked out of Vietnam again during the China Vietnam war in 1979. So tell me which one are you, Hakka, Cantonese, Tieu Chow or Mingnan? I understand your frustration of not being able to define your root. You shouldn't pour your hatred on the land and the people who once fed you and gave you shelter because Vietnam rejected you due to what China did to Vietnam in 1979. You should instead save your energy to fight for your own nation within China. I believe the Vietnamese people will fully support any independent movement of the Hakka, Cantonese, Tieu Chow and Mingnan people. After all, we are the descendants of the Great Yueh (Viet) people who once lived on the south side of the Yellow River in China.
And just in case you are none of those sounthern Chinese that I mention above then I don't know what level of education you have but it's really a stupid idea to use physique appearance as a measurement of civilization advances. I have heard all kinds of stories about how the Chinese always say that they are the center of the world and the origin of world civilization. So why don't you go to Africa, find yourself an uneducated black woman and feed her some ideas about how great Chinese civilization is and China is the center of the world. Then you bring her to America and tell President Bush that "Hey, Mr. Bush, I know your culture and your weaponry are superior to our Chinese because you Caucasian people are bigger, taller and have fairer skin. But guess what? why don't you take your aircraft carriers out of Asia so we can invade Japan, South Korea Taiwan, and Vietnam then I can show you that you actually have a Chinese ancestor. I also have a proof for you. You can ask my Somalian wife here and she can tell you that her ancestors are Chinese. Since most of Caucasian people like you believe that your ancestors are from Africa then your ancestors must be Chinese too, blah, blah, blah..." If you do this, I bet President Bush will take all of his aircraft carriers out of Asia for you and you also get yourself a monument right in Washington DC as the founder of the Chinese originated Caucasian race theory.
hehehehe I figure you would understand my story by now otherwise you should go back to your elementary school to learn the basic alphabetic letters. I have to admit that you actually had a nice prep talk about your Chinese civilization so please keep talking and TALK TO MY ASS. It starts believing in you now. Vietnam is a small country and we may appear to be weak but we have stood head-to-toe as a nation and a pure race along side with the much bigger, much stronger and much more barbaric and half-breed China for thousands years. On the other side, many other ethnics are succumbed into the hell hole China. China has become such a mess that Chinese can't even trace their own roots. The Chinese government has to use the name of a feudal dynasty to fool their people into believing that they are the greatest and purest race on earth. If you think my usernam is funny then you should also start thinking about changing your country's name in Chinese. Your country's name in Chinese is the racist name I have ever heard. You want to tell the world that your country is the center of the world??? The world in your definition is full of barbaric and salvage people. I would rather stay on an island with the more educated and civilized people like the Japanese than be in a center of an uncivilized world like you do. 3 millions Vietnamese people died in the Vietnam War in part because the horny gorilla Mao stucked his face into the Viet people's ass and pushed them to confront the American. He couldn't dare to face the American himself because he knew if he did, there wouldn't be just 300 millions dead Chinese like he used to say proudly but the entire of the so called Chinese race would be put into the list of endangered species. Chinese media following the Chinese government showed a conspiracy theory about VNese pirates on Chinese water. Let me show you why: (1) The incident happended in the shared fishing water between the two countries. It is not Chinese water, it is shared as mutual agreement. The cordinates of the SOS signal of the first attacked vessel clearly proved that. (2) Those fishermen are not pirates. They were unarmed, and fishing with VNese flags on top of the vessel when those bloody guards came and attacked them for some reasons (which are unclear now). We have all evidences to show that they are pure fishermen. (3) If what Chinese government claimed as true as they believed (a) why it took them two days after first complain by Vietnam (b) why Chinese government did not provide any proof with their claim? proof of injured gard, attacked fishing vessel and owning fishermen, and on. It's so obvious that if they can so all these evidence we will stop. but they can't show that now (because there isn't anything). No one knows if they may show later after having time to fake it????
We raised this topic to condemn the inhumanity acts of those border guards and demand justice for those victims, whom children, wives, parents are crying hopelessly because of the loses.
If the Chinese border guards mistook victims as pirates or if they just want to show the power, the Chinese government must appology and pay conpensations to the victims.
If the Chinese just want to create reason for war to expand its water territory, which I hope not, we want to unite people to go again it.
There will be no winner in a war. Politicians may win, but people will always lose. ....
I think you don not learn right history. Vietnam fought back Mongol and remained independent. But Mongol and Japan controled the whole China. What a strong nation!
Everytime, China had a chance to invade VN they would do so. Eventhough, most of the times they got kicked ass and run like rats soon after. They seem never learn the lesson that they would never be able to do smth like "destroyed all of Vietnam", not before, not now and not ever.
I admit Chinese cuture is really something. But I disgust the her greedyness on land of neighbouring countries. China backed Campodia to attack to south Vietnam, and kill thousands of VNese near the border?". If there is anything to blame, should be just over-defending act. What might be the fact? China thought Vietnam was weaken after long war with American in addition of large portion of Vietnamese army stucked in Cambodia, and China can easily turn Vietnam into a Chinese colonial state? If so, it's obviously unsuccessful.
-- thanh nguyen (email@example.com), January 21, 2005
Thanh Good answer. Many chineses in main land China have been taught that China possessed Korea, Japan, Okinawa Island, Viet Nam, Philipine, Indonesia and Malaysia according to hisrorical facts ( true / false it is hard to convince ) so is the comyain of South China Sea [ East Sea ]. China wishes to regain these loss territories in due time.
It is very funny and Stupid thinking for the 21st Century that in Asia still has a bully. Great Geramany for the Aryan race and Great Asia of Japan dream were defeated by a coalition of Nations.
China can spend every single dime / penny that their people earned through hard labor to buy the most sophisticated weapon systems that are available in the Arms Bazzar from Russia,and EU to full fill their Leader dream to invade the peaceful Asian Nations, this action will lead to the demise of China as Germany and Japan in WW II.
So if that what the Government of China wants than they may be blind not seeing the lessons learned of WW II
-- (Tien Phong @ red Fox.Com), January 21, 2005.
Sinh vien lien mang VN viet trong cac web: http://www.biendong.de/vbb/index.htm www.vinhbacbo.org www.tonkingulf.org
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 21, 2005.
I was very excited reading reply of thanh nguyen. I fact, we (Vietnamese) always can BE PROUD of our fatherland. The following is a brief historical timeline Quang-Tuan Luong, (http://www.terragalleria.com/vietnam/info/timeline.html) Although, there are some names which are not quite accurate, e.g. Thanh Long -> Thang Long,...However, we can have an overview.
- 111 BC: The Nam Viet kingdom (spreading from the Red River delta to north of Canton) is annexed by the Han and becomes the chinese district of Giao-chi. The next thousand years is marked by progress in civilization, but also in the national sentiment. Numerous uprisings most notably the Trung sisters (40-43) and Ly Bon (542-545) rebelions, are crushed. During the entire Vietnam history China remains both a model and a threat.
- 602: Chinese rule is now a protectorat, the capital being Dai La Thanh (Hanoi)
- 939: Ngo Quyen frees the country (Dai Co Viet) by vanquishing Chinese armies at the Bach Dang river.
- 968: Dinh Bo Linh pacifies the country, and reorganizes it following the Chinese model. Mandarins will be recruited by litterary contests from 1075 (Van Mieu temple) to 1919. The capital moves to Hoa Lu with the Dinh and first Le dynasties.
- 1010: The Ly dynasty moves the capital to Thanh Long (Hanoi). During their reign, Chinese, Khmer, and Cham attacks are repelled (most notably by Ly Thuong Kiet). The expension towards the South begins, with territories conquered from the Cham (this resulted in the destruction of their culture).
- 1226: Tran dynasty.
- 1288: After thirty years of periodic invasions, the Mongols are defeated by Tran Hung Dao at the Bach Dang river.
- 1407: Chinese occupation Ming.
- 1428: After his victory against the Chinese armies, with the aid of Nguyen Trai, Le Loi begins the second Le dynasty, which sees further annexions in the South.
- 1524: Begining of a long period of political instability. While the Le govern only nominaly, a feudal war rages between the Trinh from the North (Thang Long) and the Nguyen from the South (Hue).
- 1651: Jesuit Alexandres de Rhodes publishes in Roma a latin/vietnamese cathechism and creates the Ngoc Ngu, the roman-based script currently used for Vietnamese (Vietnam is only one of three countries in Asia which uses a roman-based script).
- 1771: The Tay Son brothers start a rebellion which will cause thirty years of heavy warfare. One of them, Nguyen Hue, reigns as Quang Trung and defeats the Chinese army at Dong Da.
- 1802: After pushing back the Tay Son with the help of French mercenaires recruited by Jesuit Pigneau de Behaine, Nguyen Anh (the only survivor from the massacre of the Nguyen by the Tay Son brothers) changes his name to Gia Long and starts the Nguyen dynasty. The capital of the unified country is now Hue.
- 1858: The French navy attacks Da Nang.
- 1867: Cochinchina (the South) becomes a French Colony.
- 1883: Tonkin (the North) and Annam (the Center) become French protectorates.
- 1887: Creation of the Indochina Union, Cochinchina, Annam, Tonkin, Cambodia, and latter Laos.
- 1932: Bao Dai, the last emperor, begins his reign as an infant.
- 1940: Invasion of Indochina by Japan. The French administration collaborate and continue to run the government.
- 1941: Ho Chi Minh starts the Viet Minh. Leninism is thought of as an ideological weapon to serve Vietnamese nationalism against French colonialism.
- 1945 (March 9): The Japanese end up French authority. (Aug 19): The Viet Minh starts a general popular insurection. Bao Dai abdiquates. (Sept 2): Ho Chi Minh declares independance in Hanoi (US agents stand at his side) (Sept 23): The French authorities reoccupy the South.
- 1946: After the failed Fontainebleau conference between Ho Chi Minh and the French government, notably about the question of the status of Cochinchina, and the bombing of Haiphong (6000 killed), the war between the French troops and the Viet Minh for the control of Vietnam begins.
- 1954: The bulk of the French army is defeated at Dien Bien Phu (this is the first time in history a colonial power is militarily defeated, a massive decolonization follows worldwide). At the Geneva conference, the country is partitioned at the 17th parallel as an interim stage. The North becomes the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, a communist state supported by China and the USSR (the strict communist ideology began to prevail at the 2nd congress of the Vietnamese labor party in 1951).
- 1955: Refusing to implement the Geneva accords, Ngo Dien Diem proclaims himself president of the Republic of South Vietnam with backing from the West.
- 1959: The communist party decides to start military operations in the South. Construction of the Ho Chi Minh trail.
- 1961: Kennedy decides to increase US military aid to South Vietnam, first in the form of military advisors (16000 by 1965).
- 1963: Ngo Dien Diem is assassinated in a US-initiated coup.
- 1964: Although elected as a dovish candidate against Goldwater, Johnson decides to escaladate the war. All but two US senators pass the "Tonkin Gulf resolution", which gives a blank checks to US presidents over Vietnam.
- 1965 (Feb): First US aerial raids against the North. The tonnage of bombs used during the US intervention (mostly against civilian targets) in Vietnam will exceed that used during the whole WW II, and include use of chemical arms. (March) First US troops in Danang. Their number will grow up to more half a million. Nguyen Van Thieu president.
- 1968 (Jan 31): The Viet Cong's Tet offensive, although a military failure, stuns the West and becomes a psychological turning point as it makes the public aware of the nature of the war and the impasse. Anti-war movements begin in the West, and are fuelled in the US by the revelation of the "Pentagon papers" in 1971 which show how US presidents had deceitfully handled the matter. Negotiations begin in Paris, but in the while more military escaladations take place.
- 1973: After the ratification of the Paris accords, the US military withdraw.
- 1975 (April 30): Viet Cong troops enter Saigon, after a two-month campaign in spite of the Paris accords.
- 1976: The Socialist Republic of Vietnam is officially proclaimed.
- 1978: Vietnam joins the USSR-lead Comecon. The tragedy of the Hai Hong, old cargo boat overloaded with refugies brings to the world attention about the "boat people" fleeing the new regime. They will total more than half a million people.
- 1979 (Jan): Vietnamese troops enter Phnom Penh and end the murderous Pol Pot regime in Cambodia. (Feb): A retaliatory invasion from China is repelled during a month-long war.
- 1987: A law on foreign investments marks the beginning of the liberalization of the economy (but not of politics, cf also China and other Asian countries). The first turists visit the country.
- 1989: Withdrawal from Cambodia (this is the first time for half a century that the country is not engaged in any war).
- 1991: Relationships are normalized with China (note that this year saw the end of the USSR).
- 1995: Diplomatic relationships are fully normalized with the US, one year after the end of the US embargo.
-- Hai Hoang (email@example.com), January 21, 2005.
Here is the petitiononline, please pass to your friend! http://www.p etitiononline.com/hauloc/petition.html
-- Hai Hoang (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 21, 2005.
Thua, aaa...da duoc xem... khong phai aaa la tac gia aaa cam thay rat Kinh Trong va Tu Hao ve tra loi cua GREAT VIET tren dien dan http://forum.japantoday.com
-- Thanh Nguyen (email@example.com), January 21, 2005.
dit-me, cac chu nhieu chuyen qua , lam nang-giai anh.
you title is wrong concept.
we're Chinese who never thought of Vietnam which was an opposite force agaisnt people of China.
we're Vietnamese who heristated a lot of Chinese culture, who will always respected China.
[ chung toi la nguoi Tau , kkong bao gio nghi rang nguoi VN SE CHONG TRUNG-HOA-
chung toi la nguoi Viet thua huong nen van hoa Trung Hoa va luon Kinh trong Trung hoa.. ]
-- chi-bua (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 21, 2005.
www.meviet.org New light on the forgotten past
----------------------------- Lam sao dao nguoc duoc lich su. Dan Viet va Dan Tau khong ghet nhau. Chi co bon insect ban thiu lanh dao,ba quyen Tau, bon day doa nguoi dan luong thien, khong chi dan the gioi ma ca dan Tau, moi la ke thu cua Viet nam va loai nguoi.
-- (email@example.com), January 21, 2005.
I am a VN overseas students, I have read the answer of GREAT VIET. I'm very proud to be a Vietnamese, Thanks a lot GREAT VIET
-- Nguyen Viet Nam (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 25, 2005.
Viet nam cuong thinh se lam cho bon Chet tuc toi. Dit me bon Chet, da dao bon Chet. Bon Chet Trung hoa la ke thu so 1, mai mai cua dan toc Viet. Giet chet me chung no het neu co the. Bon nay tham doc cuc ky. Dit me Chi Bua!
-- Viet Cuong (email@example.com), January 25, 2005.
Làm sao mà Việt Nam quật cường được khi cả bọn lănh đạo điều là con chó của Chệt cộng ?
-- thich du thu (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 26, 2005.
Anh thich du thu noi rat chi ly.
-- (email@example.com), January 26, 2005.