ngo-ngan.

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Vietnamese American Society : One Thread

Tra loi nhung cau hoi ngo ngan cua cac chu thua tran . Dai dien co chu Long-dut-mach bau rang Tau co thich lay them dat cua VN khong ? Cau hoi rat xo-la ,nhung anh van tra loi , de chung to cho cac chu thay anh khong ki-thi [ no prejudice ]. Di nhien , dat cat la tien day , dac biet ngoai bien Nam -Hai voi nhung tui dau chim duoi day bien VN . Tuy nhien , VN khong ngu xuan nhu cac chu thua tran suy nghi , tat ca la su doi chac va 2 ben [ Tau & VN] deu vui ve ca . Ap luc cua Tau that su chi la su banh truong tu nhien cua nuoc lon doi voi nuoc nho , nhung chien luoc Tau cung la giai toa ap luc cua cac de cuoc khac nhu My va Tay phuong trong vung bien Nam . Chien -luoc hoan -cau [ global strategy] cua Tau cung can su hop tac huu hieu cua VN , VN la mot dong -chi moi ho rang lanh cua Tau , Tau danh VN thi Tau choi voi ai nua ? Cac chu VNcong-tru co hieu anh noi gi khong ?

-- Chi-bua (mingo@netscape.net), November 17, 2004

Answers

tau` ddanh viet cong rui` Tau` ly VN .... c`n gi cho*i nu*a~ ...hieu ko chi 2 CHI BUA ??

-- baclieu 2002 (thomasph75@hotmail.com), November 17, 2004.

- Thời Cộng sản H Nội:

a) Tn gio quốc doanh

b) Văn ha Tu v sch vở Cộng sản Tu đang chi phối Việt Nam

c) Lnh đạo Cộng sản đang lm tay sai, b nhn cho Tu cộng

d) Tu cộng đang chi phối mọi sinh hoạt x hội Việt Nam

Xin đọc:Cuộc Quật Khởi Của Ton Dn Việt hay l Ton dn Việt chuẩn bị cho cng cuộc phạt Bắc bnh Nam (tức trừng phạt Bắc Kinh v giải thể cộng sản)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00CWkn

-- thich du thu (toollovers@comcast.net), November 17, 2004.


***

Try this FORUM

http://www.voy.com http://www.voy.com/c/society_culture/countries_cultures_groups/ http://www.voy.com/152094/

MAIN BOARD http://www.voy.com

LUA CHON FORUMs

DIEN DAN TU DO Fight Free 4 VIETNAM (both sides)

-- ... New battle field 4 you Chibua my son :) (ChuyenTriHOINACH@aol.com), November 17, 2004.


Hi !! Hi !!

Ch Ch Bựa, dng giống Ch Pho, nằm trong đm " cch miệng " bất ti...trả lời cu hỏi của anh c vẻ kh thế lắm nhưng chưa đạt yu cầu.

Anh hỏi ch my rằng th l liệu thằng Tu cộng n c đi thằng việt cộng dng thm đất, thm biển của dn tộc VN cho n nữa hay l khng ,Ch my cứ trả lời ấm ớ mi.

Anh c hỏi ch my liệu thằng Tu cộng n c " onh " thằng Việt Cộng nữa khng....đu ? ..m ch my trả lời trnh n rằng th l " Tu đnh VN th Tu chơi với ai...."

Cn cu hỏi phụ : ch my thỉnh thoảng hay than phiền ci xứ Hoa kỳ m ch my đang ăn bm, tại sao ch` my khng định cư sang xứ " Trung Cuốc vĩ đại ", tổ tin của ch my đi ?

Trả lời xem sao, ch Ch bựa, dng giống Ch Pho, c tinh thần " cch miệng " bất ti.

-- Long Đứt Mạch. (nongducmanh@phuchutit.com), November 18, 2004.


Bon Trung Quoc can gi VN de phat trien chien luoc toan cau. Bon TQ co mau banh truong muon chiem hiet. Chung dang phat trien kinh te de co tien tang kha nang quan su de roi se chiem noi Truong Sa. Bon TQ cho de chiem Truong Sa luc VN dang danh nhau. Dung la lu gian manh. VN luon mo mieng noi Hoang Sa cua cua minh nhung cu thua di tau vao gan coi, Tau no ban cho nat bay.

Mai mot TW no chiem not Truong Sa thi cai lu CS co mo mieng phan doi thi cung nhu Hoang Sa bay gio thoi. Cai ma TQ so la VN bo duoc CS. Luc do hai quan My co the de dong o Cam Ranh, To cha may thang TQ cung khong dam dung toi Truong Sa. Chinh vi the chung van bom tien cho bon CSVN de bon chung khong lam ban duoc voi My.

Anh Chi-bua noi rat tham hiem: Tau voi Viet can nhau trong global strategy. Toi nghi co the anh la ke an tien cua Tau phu muon gay anh huong tren dien dan cua nguoi Viet. Neu dung vay thi moi anh bien di cho khac choi nhe. Global strategy my eye.

-- Chi-bua noi ngo ngan (dggt03@hotmail.com), November 18, 2004.



Bon Trung Quoc can gi VN de phat trien chien luoc toan cau. Bon TQ co mau banh truong muon chiem hiet. Chung dang phat trien kinh te de co tien tang kha nang quan su de roi se chiem noi Truong Sa. Bon TQ cho de chiem Hoang Sa luc VN dang danh nhau. Dung la lu gian manh. VN luon mo mieng noi Hoang Sa cua cua minh nhung cu thua di tau vao gan coi, Tau no ban cho nat bay.

Mai mot TQ chiem not Truong Sa thi cai lu CS co mo mieng phan doi thi cung nhu Hoang Sa bay gio thoi. Cai ma TQ so la VN bo duoc CS. Luc do hai quan My co the de dong o Cam Ranh, To cha may thang TQ cung khong dam dung toi Truong Sa. Chinh vi the chung van bom tien cho bon CSVN de bon chung khong lam ban duoc voi My.

Anh Chi-bua noi rat tham hiem: Tau voi Viet can nhau trong global strategy. Toi nghi co the anh la ke an tien cua Tau phu muon gay anh huong tren dien dan cua nguoi Viet. Neu dung vay thi moi anh bien di cho khac choi nhe. Global strategy my eye.

-- Post lai vi typo errors (dggt03@hotmail.com), November 18, 2004.


Anh post Lại cho ch my hiểu dzn Miền Nam văn minh bao nhiu so với tụi CS BV của ch :

State Department Official Talks With Millbrook High Class About Vietnam

October 29, 2001 - A U.S. State Department official recently visited a Millbrook High class to talk about his connections to and views on Vietnam.

Robert Carlson Robert Carlson, who now works at the U.S. Embassy in Bogota, Colombia, worked the State Department's Vietnam desk when the U.S. established diplomatic ties with Vietnam in the 1990s. Carlson told Lindy Poling's Lessons of Vietnam class October 12 that his views on the southeast Asia country had changed over time. His earliest memories of the war were news reports.

"I was a child during the Vietnam War," Carlson said. "I grew up seeing it on TV. It was the first war that was in our living rooms. Frankly, for a child, it was scary to see people being machine gunned and hand grenades being thrown while you are having dinner."

When Carlson turned 18, he had to register with Selective Service, an issue made significant by Vietnam.

"My friends and I sat around and debated what we should do," Carlson said. "We didn't know if we wanted to sign up for the Selective Service because of the bad experience that our country had in Vietnam. Nobody wanted to go to war after that. During World War Two, the number of draft dodgers was a handful. In the Vietnam War, the number of draft dodgers was enormous. It was because a lot of people believed that the war was wrong. The United States had not been attacked. The United States was out meddling in another country, people said. Finally, I decided I would register for selective service, but that I would give very careful consideration to serving in the armed forces if I was drafted to fight in a war where my country was not attacked."

In college, Carlson took a course on the Vietnam War. The course required each student to interview a veteran or refugee of the war. That's when Carlson met Thanh.

"He was born in Saigon and grew up there," said Carlson. "He was about 10 or 12 in 1975 when Saigon fell."

Thanh told Carlson the day Saigon fell, the schools were closed.

"They were closed for a few weeks and then reopened. He returned to find that all his teachers were gone and they had been replaced by North Vietnamese teachers who changed the history," said Carlson. "Thanh said they told him how bad the south was, how inferior the south was, how the Americans had invaded Vietnam, and how the North Vietnamese had liberated the South Vietnamese from the Yankee Imperialists. Than didn't really swallow that. He knew he had a good life before the North Vietnamese arrived."

At school, Thanh focused his attention on math. But at home, life became more difficult. His uncles were sent to re-education camps and the new government had spies on every block. Thanh's family fled the country. They bought their way onto a fishing boat and made it to Malaysia. After months in a refugee camp, officials put them aboard another boat, took it out into international waters, and set it adrift. They were rescued by Indonesian fishermen who took them to a refugee camp in Indonesia. From there, his family was sponsored by a church group in Bloomington, Indiana and made their way to the U.S.

Teacher Lindy Poling introduces Robert Carlson to her Lessons of Vietnam class. "We used to think that maybe we were wrong to fight in a far-off country. It was the Cold War. It was like the people who were running this country were only fighting this war as a way to stick it to Russia and to keep the threat of community conspiracy from spreading throughout southeast Asia," said Carlson. "But Than made me think that maybe there really was a just cause here. I began to think differently. I realized what happened after the U.S. left Vietnam was really tragic. The communist regime executed a lot of people, tortured a lot of people, and enslaved almost the entire population. I don't think people in the U.S. really expected that."

In 1988, Carlson began working for the State Department and in 1996 went to Washington to work on the Vietnam desk. To acquaint desk officers with their countries, they take an orientation tour.

"I was excited because I was going to get to go to the country that everyone had always talked about, the country that I had been studying, the country where events had changed our nation's psyche," said Carlson. "Hanoi was a dreary place. It was overcast a lot. Saigon, now called Ho Chi Minh City, was a completely different city. It is a bustling, booming city with a lot of commerce. That's probably what struck me the most about the visit, the contrast between north and south."

Carlson found North Vietnam to have a very conservative culture, heavily influenced by China. He thought the south more liberal and open.

In Ho Chi Minh City, Carlson visited the former U.S. Embassy building shortly before it was demolished to make way for a new U.S. Consulate.

"I couldn't believe it. I had seen pictures of it," said Carlson. "I had seen pictures of this building during the Tet offensive in 1968 when the Viet Cong took over the embassy and killed a bunch of foreign service officers before they were finally routed out and killed themselves by U.S. forces. Going into the building was like visiting a haunted house. It was eerie with all the empty offices. I went up to the roof and saw where the helipad was. I saw the stairs and iron ladder that people used to escape when they evacuated people out of there in April 1975. It was an experience that left me speechless."

Pete Peterson on the Internet US DEPARTMENT OF STATE: Pete Peterson

PBS: Pete Peterson, Assignment Hanoi

Online News Hour: Pete Peterson, August 9, 1999

THE WHITE HOUSE - AMBASSADOR PETE PETERSON, November 18, 2000

Asia Society: Pete Peterson, March 9, 2001 While Carlson worked the Vietnam desk, President Clinton nominated Pete Peterson as the first ambassador to Vietnam.

"Peterson was a POW in the war. He spent five and half years in the Hanoi Hilton. He endured torture, but was one of the lucky survivors," Carlson said. "He came back to the United States, became a successful businessman, ran for Congress, defeated an incumbent, and served two terms in the U.S. House. He thought he could make a greater contribution as the nation's first ambassador to Vietnam, because if anybody could think about forgiveness and reconciliation, it was someone like Pete. Not long into my term as Vietnam desk officer, Pete Peterson was confirmed as our ambassador and he went to Vietnam and opened the embassy with the Secretary of State."

In 1979, Vietnam invaded Cambodia and the U.S. had established policy that there would be no relationship with Vietnam until it withdrew from Cambodia. Vietnam left Cambodia in 1989 and Peterson arrived in Hanoi as ambassador in May 1997.

"When you don't have diplomatic relations with a country and you don't have a dialogue with that country, you can't expect to influence that country in any way," Carlson said. "We were aware there were enormous human rights violations in Vietnam and we could do nothing to help the people. By re-establishing relations, we were able to create a dialogue with the Vietnamese government, of which I was part. Our human rights dialogue involved mid- and high-level officials who would meet every six months to go over a list of cases, and political prisoners, and try to get Vietnam to loosen the reigns a little bit. For example, we were able to persuade them to permit the Internet in Vietnam. We were able to win the release of several political prisoners. Our commercial relationship began to grow. That was what the Vietnamese really wanted. They couldn't get their economy off the ground and almost no country can get its economy off the ground without having trade relations with the United States. By using that as a carrot, we were able to produce changes in Vietnam and I think what we will see there is a change in generations."

Carlson said that way over 50 percent of Vietnam's population was born after the war and have no recollection of the war.

"Most don't care about it," said Carlson. "They want to live their lives, earn some money, and become prosperous. I think that's how things will eventually change in Vietnam."

Carlson visited Poling's class as part of her Community in the Classroom concept that involves students by hearing speakers who visit the classroom, corresponding by e-mail with a wide range of contacts Poling has developed as part of her course, and taking part in activities such as a dinner with veterans and a visit to the Vietnam War monument in Washington, DC.

Visiting speakers stimulate class discussions and Poling asked students to write letters responding to speakers like Carlson. For Poling a critical lesson for the students was Carlson's discussion about Thanh's life in Vietnam after the U.S. left.

"Its amazing the hardships people must go through just to have a glimpse of freedom, to escape the home and everything you have known for so long and leave it behind," wrote Michelle. "It must be difficult; I cannot even begin to imagine leaving America to live in another country, because freedom no longer exists. You have opened so many doors and questions for me to look forward to learning more about Vietnam and its lessons for us."

"I had never really paid much attention to a Vietnamese point of view until you told the story of your interview with Thanh," wrote Erika. "It really touched me because for the first time, I was hearing a totally different story. It has not just a war that had not purpose anymore, it was a war for ones own country. It became a war with a purpose, a huge purpose. This man's family depended on the outcome of this war. Thank you for giving me the turn around on the view."

"Introducing the lesson you learned from interviewing Thanh and hearing his side of Vietnam was important for us," wrote Riannon. "It is difficult to live in America and have adequate access to a Vietnamese perspective. I think we should have some understanding of what the South Vietnamese were going through because it is one of the major strong points for why the U.S. even became involved in the war."

Carlson told the class small decisions may have enormous unforeseen consequences on world events, "It's not just the world's leaders who drive history, its also average people like you and me." As an example he pointed to the attraction between two people and the impact it had years later on events in the U.S.

"A man and a woman in Austria at some point smiled at each other back in the 19th century and that completely changed the course of our world history," Carlson said. "They were the parents of Adolph Hitler. If they had never met, if they had missed each other by five minutes, the world would be completely different. If Hitler had never been born, its very likely there never would have been a Holocaust. If there had never been a Holocaust, then there wouldn't have been such an incredibly strong western sympathy for the creation of the state of Israel. And if the state of Israel had never been created, the Muslim radicals in the Middle East wouldn't hate the United States so much. And it would be very likely that Osama bin Laden would not have been converted into a radical and the events of September 11 never would have happened."

"Our class had a discussion about your comment on two people smiling at one another," wrote Erika. "To believe that our world can change so much much because of the simplest things is amazing. In one way, it is a scary thought with your example of Hitler. I also see it as something good because even 'The Lessons of Vietnam' class is small, we can make a difference, too."

"We have been taught to look at the big picture, but you broke it down all the way back to Hitler; it made me realize that if it was not for WW II and the Cold War, that September 11 might have never happened All our military technology and space advancement might have never occurred; how different life would be for us as Americans today," wrote Michelle.

"I was amazed when you talked about how if two people had not looked at each other then Hitler would not have been born," wrote Norma. "I never realized that everything 'common' people do could have unimaginable effects. Over the weekend, every person I talked to and things I did, I questioned the effect that I might be making on someone else."

-- (Cn_Ngố_n-Dải-Dt@BBP.govt), November 18, 2004.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------



-- (|||||A|||@LLL.com), November 18, 2004.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ