Having spent many hours reading all the valuable information held on this site, I think I may be suffering from brain-overload as although I am more informed I feel just as confused as ever as to the wisest course and therefore would be grateful for any advice. However, picking up the message time and again that 'THEY' read the site as well I am worried about revealing too much information - I notice that some names crop up constantly and wondered if they are willing to respond to direct e-mail? I would not presume to follow that course unless I knew it was acceptable. My immediate problem is as to whether I respond to recent pressure - to date ignored - in the form of a SARN - or wait for them to do their worst, 'justask' has me confused on this. Also wonder how responding affects six year time scale. Without going into too much detail as I suspect that even the exact shortfall gives clues to THEM as to who is posting and yes I do know I am being paranoid........ my shortfall is pushing 30 grand and sale of the repossessed property I estimate around the 5 year mark but don't know exactly. The history of this mortgage is complicated involving protracted litigation on related matters - the result being that I am now in a position from which I can never recover and for Bradford and Bingley to even get 30 pence out of me will be over my dead body. Literally. Simply because I know that I don't owe them anything, the shortfall is merely the result of fancy footwork and creative accounting which they have turned into an art form. Am at the point now where SDs and CCJs are threatened - do I hit them with a SARN or wait.... I am totally potless, I own nothing but I do have loans/cards and I am employed but low paid. My concern with bankcrupcy is my other debts - incurred because of B/B - but valid debts nonetheless and which I feel morally bound to repay - as I understand it everything goes into the bankcrupcy equation? Regarding SARN - stuff I am in doubt about as although have all paperwork from repossession period all old mortgage docs (18 years) are not immediately accessible (archived in a loft somewhere)and my memory - I'm getting on a bit - fails me as to MIG. This was originally a 100% Leamington Spa endowment mortgage supposedly later converted to repayment. Can find no reference to Money Judgement Order - would that have been at time of repossession? Does the Statement of Account requirement on Mark Amos's sample SARN mean final statement because I need to get all the old records - this stitch-up goes way back. Going down the SARN route should I include the relevant questions from the second half? Or do the first bit to protract matters? Did say I was confused.

-- sarah kain (skain572000@yahoo.com), August 20, 2004

Answers

Sarah,

You are not being paranoid, it is a fact lenders & debt collectors read this site, and of course giving all the facts regarding ones own case can lead them straight to your front door, when perhaps one is not ready for this. Feel free to contact me direct if you wish, though please remember I'm not a lawyer or a professional advisor. I would certainly Sarn the lender they need to be put to strict proof of the debt, which is only fair. It may be more difficult to get info under the DPA now after the M Durant v FSA appeal court case in which the ruling took a more restrictive view of what constituted personal data and a relevant filing system under the Data Protection Act 1998, so I would suggest you include info which you specifically want under the Civil Procedure Rules Overriding Objective and Pre-action Protocol Practice Direction as I have done in my list 1-14 in the example sarn letter. An MJO could have been taken out at the time of repo or afterwards, providing it falls within the 12 year limitation period. If, however, more than six years have passed since issue then the creditor would have to obtain leave to enforce from the courts and, unless they have a very very good reason for the 6 year delay they are unlikely to be given leave. This is the way I understand it. Please double check everything though with a competent qualified lawyer, which is what everybody should do with everything read on this site. If more than 6 years have passed since issue of the MJO then I doubt the court will hold any record of it, as I believe they keep them for only 6 years. The only record then (if it exists) would be with the lender (providing you haven't got one in the loft, of course). Best place for it I think.

Mark.

-- M Amos (idgroms@hotmail.com), August 20, 2004.

Sarah,

A couple of other points I forgot. If you declare insolvency and are then subsequently discharged (12 months later or less) there is nothing to stop you paying off the loans which you feel you are morally obliged to pay. It may be you would be able to pay a certain amount to your creditors during the insolvency period but that would be down to the OR, they are, of course, obliged to leave you enough to live on. Before declaring inslovency try offering the lender the amount it costs to do it(around £400, you may get it reduced if you are on low pay but I'm not sure). You could offer this amount or less as a full & final settlement on a take it or leave it basis. Some accept. Be aware too that a creditor will always argue that if you are paying off other loans that they are the major creditor and that the lion's share of any loan repayments should go to them. You should also qualify for legal aid if you are on low pay, have you looked into that ?? You could fight any legal case and then, if it goes pear shaped, declare insolvency the day after. Good Luck.

Mark.

-- M Amos (idgroms@hotmail.com), August 20, 2004.

Hi Sarah,

Having been dealing with B&B & Drydens for some years now I know exactly how you feel. They are chasing my fiance. We have recently gone to IBAS who are an independant company who take on your case for you, look at all the paperwork and deal with nothing but shortfalls. They are very interested in B&B and are submitting a complaint to OFT about them. Although they charge £195 joining fee they have been very helpful for us. We are currently trying to negotiate a settlement fee with them, although it seems that as soon as you need to speak with Drydens they are suddenly 'on holiday!'

-- Chris (chris@anon.co.uk), August 26, 2004.

My thanks to you both - Mark, I have taken you up on your kind offer - Chris, the trouble with IBAS or similar is that they will negotiate a settlement - and I don't want a settlement, am not prepared to pay B/B a penny. Not only because I can't - I own nothing and am on low pay but because of the history of this mortgage and related matters (which I don't want to detail on the site as it would be a dead giveaway to 'them')I know I don't owe them anything. With a big lottery win tomorrow I still wouldn't pay them - but I would pay the best lawyer I could find to sue each and every one of those whose incompetence and intransigence put me where I am today. Thanks, good luck and best wishes with your own situation. Sarah

-- sarah kain (skain572000@yahoo.com), August 29, 2004.