Seaboard Air Line Office cars : LUSENET : ACL and SAL Railroads Historical Society : One Thread

From everything I can tell, the Seaboard Air Line named their office cars. Now the "Norfolk" is at the South Carolina Railroad Museum. The "Savannah" is in Colliersville, Tenn. The "Miami" is in Fort Myers, Fla. The Baltimore is still in used by CSX. Was there a "Richmond" and does it still exist and where? Was there a "Birmingham" and does it still exist and where? Was there a "Virginia" and does it still exist and where is it today? How does the SAL #3 located at Andrews, South Carolina fit in?

-- Dick Kearns (, July 26, 2003


Gentlemen, please, no more confusion…………the Q&A is here to dispel confusion………Let’s see if the trusty SAL passenger diagram book can help (the Society sells a reprint of this too). The version I’m looking at has the following:

Alabama – Built by Pullman 1924, originally Baltimore No. 1, changed to Carolina No. 1 in 1928, changed to Virginia No. 1 in 1933, number removed in 1957, changed to Alabama in 1970 (under SCL of course).

Birmingham – Built by Pullman 1914, originally Baltimore No. 105, changed to Baltimore No. 5 in 1915, changed to Baltimore with USRA #26 in 1918, changed to Baltimore [no #] in 1920, rebuilt by ACF in “1915” (this must be an error, must have meant 1925) to Maryland No. 2, changed to Southland No. 2 in 1927, changed to Birmingham 1953.

Southland – Built by Santa Fe 1914, converted by SAL 1948 as Birmingham, changed to Southland 1953.

Jacksonville – Built by Pullman-Standard 1927 as Pioneer, purchased by SAL 1944 as Jacksonville No. 4, # removed 1948

Richmond – Built by Pullman 1911 as Winchester, purchased by SAL 1917 as Portsmouth, changed to USRA No. 69 1918, changed to Portsmouth No. 5 in 1920, changed to Richmond No. 5 in 1920, # removed 1948

Miami – Built by Pullman in 1930, purchased in 1964 from West India Fruit & Steamship (their “Sea Level”) and renamed Miami

Savannah – Built by Pullman in 1915 as coach 564, converted to office car Savannah No. 7 in 1915, changed # to 8 in 1947, removed # in 1948

Norfolk – Built by SAL in 1910 as No. 100, changed to Portsmouth No. 1 in 1915, changed to Charleston No. 8 [no date], changed to Tampa No. 8 [no date], changed to Norfolk No. 8 in 1920, changed # to 3 1947, removed # in 1948

There you go, no more confusion (other than the fact that SAL changed names and numbers far MORE often than Mr. Dettmer changes clothes).

As for another Richmond, SAL had a lightweight 10-6 sleeper named Richmond, built 1949.

-- Larry Goolsby (, July 29, 2003.

Ron -

Huh? Now I am confused.

To further add to the confusion, I also think that there were two different "Richmonds". One was an an office car, and an earlier (I think) one that was a diner (again - I think) - unfortunately all of my books are packed up right now.

-- Bill Parks (, July 29, 2003.

Well, lets see if I can add to the confusion... Way back 1930 there was a SAL #3 it was named the Charleston. the Charleston was the #3 till about 1936 when the car with the name Charleston and the #3 disappeared from the roster. There was no #3 until about 1947 when the Norfolk picked the number 3. It stayed #3 until about the early 50's when all the numbers disappeared. After which they were named cars. They (the SAL) changed the car names and numbers about as often as I changed clothes. If you need any further Info let me know.

-- Ron Dettmer (, July 27, 2003.

The 12-31-57 SAL condensed roster lists 9 cars, Birmingham, Jacksonville, Norfolk, Raleigh, Richmond, Savannah, Southland, Tampa, and Virginia. The Society sells several roster reprints that have more details.

Thanks for the "survivors" list, would like to know which others are out there. What is the "SAL #3"?? Is this an office car? All SAL office cars were named after the 1940s, but I believe there was a No. 3 back when -

-- Larry Goolsby (, July 26, 2003.

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