Abbey National - HELP! : LUSENET : Repossession : One Thread

I've followed the advice on the site and have asked the Abbey for proof of the alleged debt for several months. I've found a few inaccuracies and the usual underselling of the house. they've been settled by the MIG and have reduced the shortfall by 50%.

In response to a recent letter from them urging me to re open negotiations with DLA, I wrote back to them with a list of the outstanding information I said I required to enable me to understand why I owed this money. It was a lengthy list (mortgage deed, copies of all original invoices, copies of the original valuations, MIG info etc).

The reply I have received tells me that they have discussed the matter with a Mr Humphries, their Data Protection Team and the Lawyers who handled the repossession and that they consider they have give me all the information to which I am entitled.

They say they cannot give me copies of original documentation because

"as when the mortgage has been redeemed,it is our policy to transfer the file on to microfilm and the original file is destroyed. You have however been supplied with copies of all the information that is available to you under the Subject Access Request procedures"

They then go to ask that I make contact with DLA ....

What do I do now????

What should I do first???

Do I offer the 200 I have as savings (I'm on incapacity benefit)? Do I complain to the Information Commissioner? Do I complain to the FSA?

Do I write back and tell them I'm lodiging complaints with the FSA and IC before I offer the 200?

I am panicing a wee bit as I feel I'm at the end of the road !!!

Can someone point me in the right direction please? n no

-- hanging in there! (, January 04, 2003


I would write back and advise them that if the data is on microfilm and they are unable to supply the data then how are they going to get on in court when the judge will require "absolute proof" under the new CPR system. Secondly if the mortgage has been redeemed, then who is demanding money for the shortfall? if abbey have "sold the debt on" then you are laughing all the way to the "bank" ?? as under english law you can NOT be persued for a debt of a 3rd party if you are NOT party to the agreement (MIG) There is a section on this site that has fuller information about this. FYI Evershits tried to get me for a 53k shortfall this time last year, well I have asked them 15 times for information such as MIG, Mortgage deeds etc etc and have heard nothing from them, I then advised them at the 15th time of asking for that information that if they wrote to me without supplying the information I would undertake legal proceedings against them for Fraud and Harrassment, not heard anything since, in addition I also advised them that they are unable to take me to court over a debt if it was a confidential agreement between the lender and a 3rd party ie a MIG.

-- John (, January 04, 2003.

The section you need to be looking at is "Do's and Dont's" and in particular the "After they contact you and demad cash section" element 10 what to do "when the lender won't co-operate" Good Luck :o)

-- John (, January 04, 2003.

The section you need to be looking at is "Do's and Dont's" and in particular the "After they contact you and demad cash section" element 10/11 what to do "when the lender won't co-operate" Good Luck :o)

-- John (, January 04, 2003. can be pursued for any debt incurred under a Mortgage which is covered by Rights of Subrogation. The MIG question has never been successfully challenged in Court, whether it be the 6/12 year issue or whom can assume the rights to pursue once the MIG has paid out. I have one of the old MIGS - which is one of the contentious ones that probably covers me. Nevertheless, I am being pursued (even though the original alleged shortfall has been sold on many times) as there is no case precedent I can use which would stop them. Right now a well known firm of shyster lawyers has the shortfall - even though I am only a few months off 12 years from the first default.

With regard to the IC and FSA, yes complain, but expect no support. They are utterly useless at the best of times. I would continue to insist that the Lender provide you with the documentation - you are entitled to it. After that, if they refuse, I would demonstrate to them (not DLA) that you are on IB and that they are pissing in the wind. I would, in your shoes, tell them to take you to Court or accept your one and only final offer. Be warned that they might call your bluff though, so I would advise this course of action only if you truly have nothing other than your benefits. Should there be any assets or assets a partner owns in which you have a beneficial interest, I would be far more cautious and proceed simply with the advice on the site regarding how to deal with the next stages.

-- Too scared to say (, January 04, 2003.

On the SARN data issue;

If Abbey have stated that your data has been transferred, held, is on, whatever media type...then they have to supply you with a copy.

I can't comment about the mortgage questions....

But, you should write back and state that you require a full copy of all your personal data, regardless of what media it is held on. State that they are now over the 40 days, and they have failed to comply with your SARN request, so you are therefore making an Assessment request to the IC. Copy your letter the Information Commissioner together with an Assessment request.

They have to provide this to you.

Good Luck, Harry

-- Harry (, January 04, 2003.

Thanks for your reply John. Scottish law might apply as I live in Scotland...I'll go back to the "do's and don'ts" and take it from there. I don't know anything about Microfilm, but I thought it was basically a medium whereby anything can be photographed and stored on tiny film for reference. Are you sure this isn't valid as evidence in court?

Your reply has lifted me a bit .....will fight on!


-- hanging in there! (, January 04, 2003.

Dear "I was duped"

Thanks a lot for your answer.

Am I right in thinking, as the Abbey has been settled for the full shortfall they originally claimed, they are now pursing me (using DLA) for the same monies (although they have halved it!) by using laws of Subrogation? That being the case I have no choice but to follow the advice on the site and keep asking for the info I've already asked for several times already.

The 6/12 years is clearly a grey area and am I right to think that the first date I defaulted on my mortgage is the date the 6/12 year starts?

Although these MIG's have been mis-sold it seems we are wasting our time arguing this out with the Abbey although it can be saved for Court if I get there.

If I make a complaint to the FSA that may buy me some time as I understand they can take several months to investigate....although I don't suppose having more time makes any difference as my circumstances won't change. But I think I'll complain anyway and I'm now going to involve my MSP (Scottish Parliament). While I'm at it I'll copy my letter to every Scottish MP as we have to raise awareness of these scandals.

I've only got 200 (I was saving towards sending my kids to drama school for a week in the Summer). I really don't think they will accept such a small amount but if it got them off my back, the kids could go next year I suppose. I just don't know if I can put up with this for another X number of years....too many sleepless nights!

I do get maintenance from my husband but I don't claim income support and pay my rent in full. They haven;t contacted him and I don't intend to help them.

I've got no assets so no worries there!

Will write to them and the IC as per your advice and thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.

I'm going to have a drink now!


-- hanging in there! (, January 04, 2003.

Dear Harry

Thank you too for your helpful reply.

Will write to the Abbey tomorrow and tell them I want the info they have on me on their Microfilm and that as they won't supply it I will formally complain to the IC and request an assessment. I've already done this for Dibb Lupton and the Commissioner has writtent to them. Should I do the same for the lawyers who handled all the litigation etc regarding the repossession? They are also saying they no longer have files with invoice for repairs etc etc.

Is it worth my while complaining to the FSA at this stage???

Thanks again Harry - you've been a great help to me since all this started.

Hope 2003 is a good one for you!


-- hanging in there! (, January 04, 2003.

Just a thought, but for someone with no assets or large income would it be worth writing to the BS saying that all the money they possess is the fee for bankruptcy and they can either accept that as a f&f or you'll declare bankrupt and BS will get nothing?

-- Sue (, January 05, 2003.

Solicitors have to keep everything for at least six years, and usually longer as well.

It's well worth sending seperate assessment requests to the IC, one for Abbey & one for the solicitor. My pal served SARN's on everybody when he was in dispute with Abbey, and these produced results sometimes, but don't hold your breath.

Above all, don't let them get you down.

Good Luck, Harry

-- Harry (, January 05, 2003.

Re Sue's suggestion above, we did exactly this several years ago when in a similar situation. Our solicitor wrote the letter, and followed it up with several more letters when no response was forthcoming. The mortgage company, Citibank, simply refused to respond. We next heard from them when we approached the 6 year limit date, 4 years later. In the intervening 4 years, we swotted up using this site, and soon realised the mistake our solicitor had made, which was to send his letters by ordinary post. My feeling is still that this approach might indeed work, but you MUST use recorded delivery! Good luck

-- Melody (, January 07, 2003.

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