Who really runs the U.S. goverment

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

The President of the United States is supposed to be the most powerful person in the world. He is in charge and sets the guidelines for the general direction of the country. But if he's supposed to be the leader, why does the President only have a level 5 military security clearance? That means, if there was an alien space-craft that crashed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 the President would not be allowed to see it.

The military generals claim it would be unwise to give the President a higher security clearance because the Presidency changes every 4 years. But people like Barry Goldwater, Henry Kissinger, and David Rockefeller have a higher security clearance than the President of the United States! David Rockefeller has a level 10 security clearance and President George Bush has a level 5 security clearance...who is more powerful?

We know Washington D.C. is the political capital of America and New York City is the economic capital of America. But people refuse to believe that the real power in America lies in New York City and NOT in Washington D.C.! Like Nathaniel Rothschild proclaimed, "Give me control over a nation's economy and I care not who makes its laws".

Alot of politicians who leave politics take a position in the corporate business world...that position is waiting for them. And alot of corporate businessmen move into political positions and become the supporters of big business. Politicians have formerly been in the intelligence agencies, in secret societies, and have associated with the Mafia. Look at the 41st President of the United States, George Herbert Walker Bush. He came out of Yale University, was a member of Skull & Bones, is a 33rd degree Mason, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, and was the Director of the CIA.

Congress and the Supreme Court are made up of various elements of the political spectrum. But in reality, Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin. Is it a conspiracy by the right wing conservatives, the left wing liberals, the radicals, or the moderates? More than half of the U.S. Senate is made up of Freemasons...and 1/3rd of the U.S. House of Representatives are Freemasons. Four of the nine Justices on the Supreme Court are members of the Masonic Secret Society...and one Supreme Court Justice was a member of Skull & Bones. There is no doubt that there exists a Masonic influence in American Government.

There are also very influential Jewish lobbies and Jewish special interest groups that have great influence over the foreign policy of the United States Government. Israel, Great Britain, and France hold great influence over the foreign policy of America.

So, who is more powerful? President Bush or Bill Gates? I would say President Bush only because of his connections within corporate, political, and secret societies. But if it was Bill Gates versus David Rockefeller...who is more powerful? It would definitely be David Rockefeller.

If you check out Forbes "Richest Men in the World" list, Rockefeller is not on the list. Steve Forbes claims Rockefeller is not on the list because he is from a dynastic family in which he inherited his wealth. Inherited wealth is not included on the list of the richest people. If they were included, Bill Gates would not even make the top ten list! It would be Rothschild as the richest in the world followed closely by Rockefeller. The real reason they are not on the list is because they prefer not to have their financial standing in the public spotlight. Part of their power comes from secrecy. Bill Gates knows computers but he would not know the first thing about manipulating his money to rule the country or the world.

David Rockefeller has ruled the United States through six U.S. Presidents and he continues to be the real "President" of the United States...whom the people did not vote for!

-- Max (MaxT@yoohoo.com), November 14, 2002

Answers

7 families have been presidents,, just 7 in all american history. SO of course, with that much power behind a single family,, there will be influences that most will never see. Big business definatly runs the USA, not even counting the lobbying that is done,, , its begger than that.

-- Stan (sopal@net-pert.com), November 15, 2002.

Verrry interesink.

What are the names of the seven families?

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@ecoweb.net), November 16, 2002.


I read a conspiracy in America web site that mentioned the seven family theory. I didn't feel the site was accurate information .But I remember some names . J.P. Morgan family ,Rockerfellas , Herst, as the Herst who's daughter joined the SLA revolutionary bank robbbing gang . And the Bush family.But I think in the Bush case it was a grandfather with a different surname than Bush that was the name that carried weight and known for wealth and power ?

It seemed the 7 families mentioned owned all the enegy resources that makes everything we know go .

-- Max (MaxT@yoohoo.com), November 17, 2002.


I have no answer I have a question, what is really going on in this country are we safe with our own government? Is this war based on oil? Do any of you have the real answer and if we are in the hands of these 7 families, How did they get there control only by money? Where is our democracy they must cast the votes in their favor in other words Al Gore would never had made it even if he won by the votes of the nieve americans the 7 families would put in whom they want correct? please reply:

-- angela signor (angelasig52@yahoo.com), November 21, 2002.

Most likely it's the same families backing the democrates as the ones backing the republicans.That's why so little changes when a new president from a different political party comes in.It's Hollywood

I have a belief that sounds crazy , but what the hell , a person can't embarrass himself in a population of insane people so I have nothing to loose.And it ain't any less crazy to have an economy that is based on an industrial system that is destroying the natural resourses needed to sustain life on the planet leaving almost nobody caring except maybe a half of 1% of the population ,which population itself is a problem and should be sounding off some alarms also , but hasn't. Humans were breed to be complacent .Domesticated

I believe Humans are a hybrid creature , and the Heirloom creatures we were hybrided from still live here .They are the rulers . The pyramid builders , the collisiums of greece and rome the ruins in south america.This may be the connection of world power to the Free Masons organization ? The empire civilizations of the past never died , they just transformed and moved on to different places . Like rotation of cattle onto fresh pasture.

Did the United States ever really get total independence from England ? Maybe the British let us believe we won , other wise the war may have gone on for 20 years or more. And this would lead to a great econmical loss. And after all ,money is what it's all about , and is the motive behind it all .Not glory , honor, title , it's money .

So who's to say that it wasn't possible that England just kinda let the rebels believe they won independence and are now a seperate country calle U.S.A. .If we believed we weren't being controled by the British any longer , we'd have no reason to resist and fight them.So even though the colonies gained independence from England.The U.S.A. may never have gained independence from British business men and rulers.

Politics is like a kiddy magic show for adults to be entertained with. " The hand is quicker than the Eye "

Just a thought

-- Max (MaxT@yoohoo.com), November 22, 2002.



Possibly it's that your vote doesn't count anymore:

  Diebold - The face of modern ballot tampering          by Faun Otter

 You can't vote them out if....  You never voted them in.

The lack of any exit polling on November 5 has been oddly ignored by the media. Those pesky tracking polls leading up to the elections have been explained away by a ‘late surge to the Republicans’ caused by.... hmmmm, how about sun spot activity? With no exit polls, there was no other feedback to conflict with the "official" results, this allowed the Diebold touch screen machines to change the way election fraud is carried out.

Previously, election cheating was a complex matter of ballot tampering combined with sample skewing. That is to say, you screwed up ballots for your opponent with under or over votes, made sure that people likely to vote against you wouldn't even get that chance (the program of voter disenfranchisement in Florida) and padded your own vote total with such things as falsified absentee ballots.

In the much more high tech world of Diebold electronics we are seeing a wonderfully efficient vote rigging system, the long proposed 'black box' technology. Imagine a black box in which you cannot see the workings. The only things you can discern are an input and an output; in this case votes go in and collated totals come out. There is no paper record of each individual vote cast to enable any cross check of the collated output. The only information you can know for sure is the total number of votes cast on the machine. Each vote is stripped of any information as to who cast that ballot to guarantee anonymity for the voters. You now have a system in which you have no way to check vote recording, vote collation and transmission of the collated totals out of the black box.

The perfect crime?

Not quite. Let me suggest an experiment. We take two ‘markets’ with similar socioeconomic mixtures and a well established record of moving in the same political direction. We provide them with candidates from party X and party Y. We then expose them to similar news stories, we spill TV and radio ads over between the markets to make the effects less ‘local’ and give them identical weather on election day. The differences between the markets are 1. the candidates and 2. the method of casting and counting the votes. We then take a series of tracking polls on the gap between the candidates leading up to election day.

If we express the tracking poll data as the relative preference for the candidates (12 point lead by X, down one point from last week etc.), any substantial discrepancy between the forecast and actual election outcomes should arise from major news changes, the weather effects on turn out or a a social tendency to misrepresent voting intent. Since both groups get the same news, the same weather and have the same social tendencies, any difference between tracking poll and actual poll data should be in the same direction and of a similar magnitude.

Sooooo...... how come the South Carolina elections had the Democrats doing much better than the  tracking poll data showed and the Georgia elections, in an area with the same weather, same news and same social values, had a massive swing in a single day after the last tracking poll, in the opposite direction? Could it be the Diebold touch screen machines in use across the entire state of Georgia but not used at all in SC?

Of course, such a perfect method of mischief has been attempted before,

http://www.votescam.com/frame.html -- Go to the link marked "Chapters" and read all about it. Watch how few lines pass before the names Bush and Sununu come up.  

You can trim the wheels in mechanical voting machines but that is easier to spot than a computer program set up to be date sensitive so it causes only to ‘misfunction’ on November 5. The current problem with virtual ballot tampering was apparent as long ago as 1989.  Jonathan Vankin made this warning in "Metro: Silicon Valley's Weekly Newspaper," of Sept. 28, 1989

“A single, Berkeley- based firm manufactures the software used in the machines that compile more than two-thirds of the nation's electronically-counted votes. Analysts describe the software as "spaghetti code," tangled strands of instructions indecipherable to outsiders. The experts say the code could be manipulated without detection. In fact, that may have happened already.”

http://www.conspire.com/vote-fraud.html

After systematic punch card fraud was revealed in the 2000 election, touch screens were proposed as a panacea and have been rapidly adopted against the warning of experts,

“Critics warn local election officials could be trading one set of problems for another potentially as bad, or worse, than last year's election debacle. They vigorously argue that fully electronic systems pose data-security problems and lack a paper trail. "There's no way to independently verify that the voter's ballot as cast was actually the ballot being recorded by the machine,'' said Rebecca Mercuri, a computer scientist and visiting lecturer at Bryn Mawr College in Pennsylvania.”

http://www.kioskcom.com/article_detail.php?ident=1021

It would be interesting to impound a few machines from the heaviest leaning Democratic areas in Georgia and reset the date in the machine to November 5, 2002. A hand counted series of inputs could be made to the machines. Note to James Baker: hand counting is the gold standard against which we check machine counting efficiency. An input of 500 or so ‘dummy’ votes could then be tabulated and the outcome checked against the inputs.  Of course, you could just check the software code. Except for one problem;  the company refuses to let anyone see their code on the grounds that is a trade secret.

Oddly enough, Diebold aren’t the only Republican partisans who “helped” select our candidates for office yesterday:

“According to his press office, in 1995 Chuck Hagel resigned as CEO of American Information Systems (AIS), the voting machine company that counted the votes in his first Senatorial election in 1996. In January 1996 Hagel resigned as president of McCarthy & Company, part of the McCarthy Group that are one of the current owners of Election Systems and Software (ES&S), which itself resulted from the merger of AIS and Business Records Corporation. According to publicist/writer Bev Harris, Hagel is still an investor in the McCarthy Group. ES&S is now the largest voting machine company in America. One of its largest owners is the ultra-conservative Omaha World-Herald Company.”

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles/Landes_Ambush.htm  

For more background reading on who gets to play with your ballot, see:

http://www.talion.com/election-machines.html  

Who are Diebold? The corporate officers are as thick as thieves with the Republican hard right religious nut division. For those who have been lucky enough to forget, Senator Faircloth was the protege of Jesse Helms in NC. It looks like the board and the directors were all putting up money for a Faircloth victory when Edwards took that senate seat. I wonder if they conspired to put things right.....?

http://www.diebold.com/

Board of Directors Louis V. Bockius III (2,4,5) 6/28/00 $15,000.00 REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC 11/3/00 $10,000.00 REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC 10/9/97 $1,000.00 VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 10/9/97 $1,000.00 VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE   Christopher M. Connor Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, The Sherwin-Williams Company 5/22/00 $1,000.00 VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 3/30/00 $1,000.00 DEWINE FOR US SENATE  

Gale S. Fitzgerald (2, 6) President and Chief Executive Officer , QP Group, Inc. 7/12/00 $500.00 NEW YORK REPUBLICAN FEDERAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE 10/12/98 $200.00 FRIENDS OF JOHN LAFALCE 10/18/99 $1,000.00 BUSH FOR PRESIDENT INC  

Donald R. Gant (1,3,5) Senior Director, The Goldman Sachs Group, L.P.  

L. Lindsey Halstead (2,3,6) Retired Chairman of the Board, Ford of Europe 12/22/98 $500.00 RNC REPUBLICAN NATIONAL STATE ELECTIONS COMMITTEE 1/23/97 $500.00 REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC 5/27/97 $200.00 REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC 10/31/97 $500.00 REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC 12/28/99 $500.00 REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC 3/7/01 $300.00 REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE 6/12/01 $200.00 REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE 11/27/01 $200.00 REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE 1/24/02 $500.00 REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE  

Phillip B. Lassiter (1,3,6) Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, Ambac Financial Group, Inc. 4/16/98 $250.00 NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE CONTRIBUTIONS 9/21/98 $250.00 NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE CONTRIBUTIONS

John N. Lauer (1,4,5) Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, Oglebay Norton Co. 10/10/00 $1,000.00 DEWINE FOR US SENATE 8/23/00 $250.00 REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC 3/17/97 $1,000.00 VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE

Walden W. O'Dell Chairman of the Board, President and Chief Executive Officer, Diebold 2/14/01 $2,015.00 RNC REPUBLICAN NATIONAL STATE ELECTIONS COMMITTEE 12/17/97 $1,000.00 VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1/30/01 $3,950.00 RNC REPUBLICAN NATIONAL STATE ELECTIONS COMMITTEE 8/16/01 $500.00 VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 12/17/97 $1,000.00 VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 6/30/00 $1,000.00 DEWINE FOR US SENATE  

Eric J. Roorda Former Chairman, Procomp Amazonia Industria Eletronica, S.A. W.R. Timken Jr. (2,3,4) Chairman , The Timken Company 6/23/00 $50,000.00 RNC REPUBLICAN NATIONAL STATE ELECTIONS COMMITTEE 6/8/01 $100,000.00 2001 PRESIDENT'S DINNER - NON-FEDERAL TRUST 3/14/01 $10,000.00 RNC REPUBLICAN NATIONAL STATE ELECTIONS COMMITTEE 8/19/99 $15,000.00 RNC REPUBLICAN NATIONAL STATE ELECTIONS COMMITTEE 11/3/00 $15,000.00 RNC REPUBLICAN NATIONAL STATE ELECTIONS COMMITTEE 2/22/02 $1,000.00 RELY ON YOUR BELIEFS FUND 6/12/02 $1,000.00 OHIO'S REPUBLICAN SALUTE

Corporate Officers

Walden W. O'Dell Chairman of the Board, President and Chief Executive Officer, Diebold (See above)

Wesley B. Vance Chief Operating Officer 8/16/01 $500.00 VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE

Michael J. Hillock President, Diebold International 11/18/97 $500.00 FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998

David Bucci Senior Vice President, Customer Solutions Group 11/18/97 $500.00 FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998

James L.M. Chen Vice President and Managing Director, Asia-Pacific

Warren W. Dettinger Vice President, General Counsel and Assistant Secretary 11/18/97 $300.00 FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998 1/30/97 $250.00 DEWINE FOR U S SENATE (2000)

Donald E. Eagon, Jr. Vice President, Global Communications & Investor Relations 11/18/97 $300.00 FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998

Charee Francis-Vogelsang Vice President and Secretary

Larry D. Ingram Vice President, Procurement and Services 1/30/97 $250.00 DEWINE FOR U S SENATE (2000) 11/18/97 $300.00 FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998   Dennis M. Moriarty Vice President, Customer Business Solutions 11/18/97 $300.00 FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998   Anthony J. Rusciano Vice President, National Accounts 11/18/97 $300.00 FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998 --- Hey Tony! Listing yourself as “retired” and using your vacation home address to avoid campaign donation limits is a tad naughty don’t you think?   Charles B. Scheurer Vice President, Corporate Human Resources 11/18/97 $300.00 FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998   Ernesto R. Unanue Vice President and Managing Director, Latin America   Robert J. Warren Vice President and Treasurer 11/18/97 $300.00 FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998    

-- jumpoff joe (jumpoff@ecoweb.net), November 26, 2002.


JOJ ,I'll need to read your above post 2 or 10 times for me to fully absorb what you wrote .I some how get the feeling from what I was able to absorb , that we will have 8 years of George and 8 years of Jeb.

-- Max (MaxT@yoohoo.com), November 26, 2002.

Regarding the main point of this discussion, I wonder how wise it would be to have all of the power in the US in a President's hands? I wouldn't be very comfortable with that. It is part of the purpose of dividing the power between the three branches of government. Of course that point is kinda moot with all three branches in one party's hands.

But the question is not specific enough. In asking "who", are we asking who has the most influence, who has the most power to advance ideals, who has the most veto power, who has the most power to wage war, who has the most power to present ideas to the nation, who has the most power to command activities in the US or who has the most power to direct economic matters?

If you don't ask a specific enough question you cannot possibly get a useful answer. What does the phrase "real power" mean??

I kind of get the feeling the writer in just ranting.

Further, there is at first, an underlying assumption that the president SHOULD have this power of high security clearance. Then later it is posited that some president-families have exercised all of the power in the US. So which is it? Should the president have more power or less?

Sorry to be so confrontive on my first visit, I would wish to be a useful critic, not just a noisy complainer.

-- Kenny (kenny_colorado_native2001@yahoo.com), November 29, 2002.


Kenny ,

About the main post , I copied it from another forum and pasted it here .I didn't write it .. Actually I'm not intelligent enough to write something that dumb...But it did stimulate some intelligent responses , so it served it's purpose as a tool in political discussion. And has possibly brought out some political awareness . One being , how much our vote really counts or possibly doesn't , and maybe it's time for a major change in how we elect our political leaders in this country .Or maybe it's time we really get to choose our political leaders .Or maybe it's time you all , get to pick your polictical leader. I don't need one .To have a leader , one needs followers. I'm goin in a different direction than the leaders want to go .

Some of us are ignorrant .But our hearts hold the passion of justice and freedom.Our wills so strong for this freedom and justice that even with words of ignorance the transparent motives will come through and possitive changes brought about .

I won't steal and post another persons words again. But it was interesting to learn that if I did I'd get more responses than with something I thought of myself and posted .

Kenny you also said this : " Sorry to be so confrontive on my first visit " .

And I read over your post and I don't know what you were refering to ? Prehaps you just feel confrontational ?

Anyway, apology accepted .

-- Max (MaxT@yoohoo.com), November 29, 2002.


i do not know ih978ugi8g yggfoyg 78g8yug y8gullguyfol7ufylfuyfltufyvu 111111 1 1 1111 11111

-- ifeanyi.o.i (squarek2k@yahoo.co.uk), February 20, 2003.


vfgcvgbuyyuyghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhtgggggggggggggggggggggggg677hjrfffffffffffffffftr hgmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmfffffffffffffffffgggggggggggtrdefffffffffff ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffdwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwwwvvvvvvvv

-- miles j todd (asluggerman@cox.net), April 24, 2003.

Sad but true. Money equals power, the more money the more power. Pathetic really that people rely on the power of money rather than intelligence. No wonder the country's going down the crapper. It's run by morons with money. Yeah, ((ooozing sarcasm)) it takes alot of brians to inherit a fortune! Some of the greatest national heros we've ever had have been poor schmucks without a dime to spare.

-- (Liszk24@aol.com), July 26, 2003.

>> Pathetic really that people rely on the power of money rather than intelligence. <<

Intelligence - compassion = EVIL

Intellegence does not mean something is Good. And even people who inherit money , need some smarts to keep it plus make more. Don't under estimate those who play dumb in front of a camera on TV .

>> No wonder the country's going down the crapper. It's run by morons with money. <<

It's goin down the crapper cause the majority of the population are GREEDY and MORAL -LESS.

Even the Liberal Idealist are GREEDY . The CONSERVATIVES are GREEDY .

So what is left ?

There is a solution to the problem .

It's called NUCLEAR PURIFICATION .

-- Steve (unreal@home.com), July 27, 2003.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ