The part below is something I started posting on the OTF thread, then decided to make it a thread of it's own. After you read it, think about whether you would like to have a weekly thread on this subject. We can try it anyway -- if it doesn't fly, oh well!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I guess it's time to 'fess up -- I have been following the Protein Power Lifeplan for about 8 weeks now. It has similarities to Atkins, but the carb amounts are higher than Atkins for the Induction/Weight Loss phase. There are two other phases, Transition and Maintenance, which I haven't really studied, as they are a long way away for me, but I know they involve gradually adding more carbs until you find the level that's right for you. There's exercise and supplements and stuff like that. I am planning on making adequate protein (not high) & low carb my way of life. I chose this one because it seemed to fit me, and I thought I could stick with it. Of course, having started on new eating plans umpty-zillion times before, I wasn't going to say anything here unless it seemed to be sustainable.

I think I saw it mentioned on Dr. Mercola's site. The authors, two doctors named Eades, have published two books -- Protein Power (two editions, latest from 1999) and now Protein Power Lifeplan. I took both books out from the library and looked them over before committing myself to buying the books. If anyone is interested in the plan, you could do that. If you read the FAQ's at their website, you can learn a lot about what it is.
LINK
They also have a discussion group from which you can learn a lot about the program, although they've instituted things that aren't in the books, such as "Boot Camp". :-) You can find that group here.

The first 4-5 weeks, the pounds just galloped off, but now has tapered to about 1-2 pounds a week. I need to get a more sensitive scale. This thing only gives increments of 1 pound, and I want to celebrate each small increment! I don't especially feel like announcing my weight, beginning or now, but I will say that I've lost between 1/4 and 1/3 of the weight that I need/want to. I really don't have a real sense of "where" I should end up, so I have my goals of "at least X lbs. off" and "no more than X lbs. off".

Of course, I LOVED it when it was galloping, but for once, a slower loss doesn't bother me. I plan on this being a life change (I don't think I ever really planned that with other "diets"). Of course, I may fall spectacularly off the wagon and have to eat crow (at least it's low-carb, if not especially tasty!), but I seem to have a better chance on this plan! Some of the hard work was already done -- I had to give up wheat and other glutenous-grains several years ago, so THAT hasn't been a big change. :-D

There are a whole bunch of low-carb eating plans out there. The Eades mention some in their books. Perhaps on their website as well, not sure.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

So, anyone want to participate? It certainly doesn't have to be higher protein/low carbs. But probably should have to do with our efforts to improve our health, be it by diet, exercise, meditation, whatever! I dated this thread similarly to our OTF chats. If anyone has another idea, let's hear it. Would a monthly thread be better?

-- Anonymous, October 23, 2002

Answers

Response to Healthier Living -- discussion for October 20-26, 2002

I'll participate. They do a weekly health check-in every Thursday on the Country Families but I've never posted there for various reasons.

I was just about ready to give Atkins a go when this flu bug hit. I'm going to start out doing the Atkins induction plan to get things moving, but I'll probably eventually phase over to more of a Sugarbusters-type plan because I don't want to give up my fruits. I've been doing a lot of reading over at lowcarbfriends.com and other websites. As I mentioned on the OTF chat (I think), I'm having some bloodwork done on Nov 7th and I want to use those values as a baseline so I'm not starting anything before then. Nov. 16th I leave for a week-long class in Florida and I'm not nuts enough to try something brand new while travelling so I probably won't officially start anything until Dec 1st. My diet right now is almost entirely carbs so this is going to be a big change for me. But I'm 5'4" and almost 180 lbs and feel like crap most of the time, so change will be good. :)

On a totally non-diet-related health note, I've started using flower essences again. I started using them last year and I felt like they were really making a difference but then when I was travelling for Christmas I got out of the habit and just never started back up again. I use the essences produced by Perelandra.

-- Anonymous, October 25, 2002

Response to Healthier Living -- discussion for October 20-26, 2002

Count me in too!

Sherri, I think it's probably a good idea to start when you are at home and living according to your regular schedule. Also as you might be aware that around 3 days into induction and your glycogen is exhausted that you may not feel very well for a day or two. You might want to plan for that to hit on the weekend or when you aren't working. I noticed you mentioned having gone to low carb friends board. I found that board very helpful. I also noticed that Vicki McGaugh from CS frequents there. Small world! Tell about how and for what you use the flower essences. That sounds interesting.

Joy, good for you!!! You have made excellent progress. I've heard many good things about Protein Power. And you are right in saying that you just have to read and study out which of these low carb programs are right for you. I know what you mean about the scale. Mine is only a normal one and it has to be an obvious loss before I can see it register.

As for us, we have just completed week 7 of our 12 week BFL challenge. And I almost hate to tempt the Fates but I think we are just now beginning to see some noticeable results from our efforts this week. I've also noticed a drastic increase in strength this past week which I think means good things are about to happen. Weights that were very difficult the week before were only a little challenging this week and I had to up just about everything to make it hard again. Also the scale finally relented and moved this week just a little! Many BFL ers have said the rapid and noticeable changes happen between weeks 8-12. I'm really getting excited!

-- Anonymous, October 26, 2002

I changed this to be for the entire month of October, what's left that is! I think a monthly thread is probably best, and if we get too long, we can just start another one, such as November-Part II.

I was thinking that maybe we'd want to make this a "public" discussion, but on the other hand, maybe not. So we can reveal as much as we would like without wondering who's reading. Well, I often wonder who is reading at this board, but that's a different story . . . ;-)

I should announce that this thread is for all board members who are interested. We can debate various diets, if that's what people want. I believe, for ME, that I have hit upon a suitable diet. This is based on my years of experience of living as me. I also firmly believe that other people have different metabolisms and tolerances/intolerances to various food items. You gotta find what works for YOU.

Sherri, you CAN have fruit on Protein Power. No food is "forbidden", although it is true that the teensy size portion you could have in any one day probably wouldn't make it worthwhile to have something sugar-laden very often. One of my treats is to have some mandarin orange sections. And I use an old trick I learned (literally) at my mother's knee -- dump the fruit into a colander, rinse with cold water, and drain. Gets rid of a lot of the sugar syrup in canned fruit. She came up with that before fruit was packed in juice.

They do make allowances for "special occasions", just emphasizing that they should be only very occasional, not every week or so. My best friend got married when I was about 3 weeks into this. I ate mostly the protein items and the low carb veggies, but I did have a couple of cups of hard cider and half a piece of wedding cake. WAY over the carb limit for any given day, but I went right back to plan. Didn't seem to slow me down at all. It was just an "occasion".

I've got another Rockford meeting coming up in 3 weeks, and I need to do some planning and careful packing for that. And I'm betting that I will fall off the wagon somewhat. They always have yummy sweet rolls. I can avoid most sweet rolls, walk past a tray of doughnuts, etc., but those cinnamon almond paste ones really get to me. And heaven help me if they have cardamon rolls! Going to try to lessen the temptation by eating a protein meal at the hotel before I go. I know I won't get enough protein for at least one lunch, so I'll be taking my own supplies. Fortunately, I'll have access to refrigerators. I also plan to leave enough stock of protein at home so that I won't be out when I get back. I won't feel like going shopping! I confess, the only part about food that I enjoy is the eating -- I don't like getting it, preparing it, nor cleaning up afterwards. Okay, I somewhat enjoy growing some of it.

I'm also in luck that I prefer broiled or roasted meats to deep fried. I especially dislike breading. I thought I would miss potatoes, but so far, I haven't really.

Tea is a difficult thing for me -- I love it, but only sweetened. Otherwise, I think it's too bitter or sour (depending on what herbal blend I'm using). About the only one that I like "straight" is chamomile, and I don't think I should be drinking that all day. I use it for a bed-time drink. I have used some Splenda and some stevia, but that's supposed to be minimal too.

Sherri, I was too gung-ho to start to wait until I got my bloodwork done {embarassed face}, and I STILL haven't had it done {hangs head even farther}. But, the improved health aspects were as much a "draw" as the eating plan itself. They explain things so that a lay-person can understand! I really don't know much about the other plans, but I recommend reading Protein Power Lifeplan for the medical information, even if you decide to follow a different eating plan.

Denise, I had the Body for Life book out from the library, but they only allow 2 weeks (too many other people requesting it, I guess). Didn't you say that you were following the eating plan in it? I think that was not especially low-carb, right? Or at least compared to Atkins or PP, anyway. Just curious . . .

I have more to say about exercise, but I have chores that have to be done first. Later!

-- Anonymous, October 26, 2002

Yes, I'm doing BFL nutrition now. I switched 2 weeks into the BFL challenge. It's not as low carb as the low carb plans. I would consider it moderate carb. It works out to be a 40, 40, 20 ratio. I get about 120-130 grams of carbs in a day now. That's still way below the average of 300+ for most Americans. This is pretty much the way I ate went we worked out in the past. So it seems normal to me.

I get plenty of fiber doing this also ( approx. 25 grams/day). I get most of my carbs as low glycemic veggies and whole grain muffins and such that I make 2 batches at a time. I've never been so regular! I make berry whole wheat muffins and whole wheat pumpkin bread. I keep these things pretty much sugar free by baking with granular Splenda. I also really like Wasa fiber rye crackers with salmon, tuna, turkey, or chicken for a quick meal. Oh and I eat a lot of oatmeal with eggs or a meat in the morning. And I get a free day! I usually have a decadent dessert and some sort of fast food as one of my meals for that day. Some BFL people go hog wild on their free day but other than what I mentioned, I try to keep the rest of the day legal.

I hope that better explains what I'm doing.

But if I were not working out I would probably have stuck with Atkins at maintenance levels.

-- Anonymous, October 28, 2002

I think around 120g carbs is about top level for maintenance on PP. Interesting. Is that the level they expect you to maintain "for life"? Or is that for weight loss?

I got a book out of the library named "Strong Women Stay Young", which deals with exercise, specifically strength building. Which, if I'm not confused, is the same thing as resistance training. I like it better than Body for Life -- not sure why. I guess because I actually find the illustrations easier to see what is being done rather than the b/w photos in BforL. I like that it has information on improved strength for senior citizens too. Can't really remember, but it seems that BforL didn't have that (at least much). But since I only had it two weeks, along with other books, I didn't really get to study it in detail.

My chiropractor wants me to do some aerobic capacity build-up first, and some stretching exercises. I don't know about the aerobic capacity -- I've been walking the dog daily for 17 months (and never lost a pound), and I know my wind and stamina has improved. On the other hand, I don't have the strength I had even a few years ago. I think I've been coddling myself too much because of my back pain. I think I could do some muscle building on my arms and legs without hurting my back. But I'm not ready to start that yet. I'm still getting used to new cooking and shopping routines, and I don't want to add anything new just yet.

I also finally got the library copy of Nourishing Traditions, and I'm reading that too. Geesh, I'm reading too many books, all at once.

I bought a scale today that shows half pounds. It also can be changed over to kilograms, with increments of 0.2 kg (close to 0.5 lb). I haven't tried it out yet. I'm thinking of leaving it on kg though, because I don't have an emotional attachment to kg numbers. Also, we weigh fewer kgs than lbs! :-D For instance, the scale goes up to 300 lb., which is something around 136 kg. Just think how much LESS I weigh in kg! Okay, just a mind trick. I've thought of using the cm side of my tape measure too, for the same reason. I wonder if this new scale will say the same number as my previous scale. I'll be ticked if it shows higher! Another reason to put it on kg and leave it there . . . .

Now I have to go get it out of the van and set up because I am curious! Later Gators!

-- Anonymous, October 28, 2002

The new scale is EVIL! EVIL! EVIL! >:-( It shows about 4 lb HEAVIER! Grrrrr! Well, I flipped it to kg and I'll just use it that way. The progress is what's important, right? {trying to convince myself . . }

-- Anonymous, October 28, 2002

Joy...my personal opinion is...that scale IS evil!!!!! Dump it!! Given a choice, I wouldn't even own a weight scale! Just base your opinions on how well your clothing fits and how you feel about yourself :-)!!

-- Anonymous, October 28, 2002

The 120 is based on what is appropriate for me at this time. I am petite and am consuming around 1200 cals/day (5 small meals) in order to have a calorie deficit. Later when I am not carrying around so much fat (around 27%), I will increase my cals.to maintain. Since my cals will go up, so will my carbs and protein. This works on a balanced carb/protein ratio (40,40, 20). This also is the right amount of protein for where I am now (1 gram per pound or body weight, or another formula is 1 gram per pound of lean body mass). If I went with LBM, then my cals would be too low.

I think BFL doesn't go into senior citizens because this is a program that can be adapted to ability level no matter the age or gender. I can see that the exercises may not seem clear but I was already familiar from past experience and didn't really think about it. Maybe they should work on that. The exercises are the basics. Whether done with a light dumbell, a barbell or a machine, they are still the same basic movement. Some things like lunges or squats are done with no weight for most beginners.

I think you are on the right track about adding things gradually. It all just takes time.

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2002

I made a list of all the stuff you've both mentioned that I want to comment on, so this post may jump around a bunch. :)

Denise: yep, I've seen Vicki from CS on the lowcarbfriends board. We've PMed a couple of times and she's been very nice and helpful. Both she and her hubby are on the plan and doing well.

Flower Essences work with your body's "electrical" system, so they deal more with mental and emotional issues. When I was using them before, my emotions felt smoother and more appropriate to the situation. Some of the essences deal with spiritual issues and I also was feeling a lot of good changes in that area. The most well-known flower essences are those developed by Dr. Bach in England, if you've heard of "Rescue Remedy" it's a blend of 5 Bach essences. I use essences made by Machelle Small-Wright at the Perelandra Center in Virginia. Several of her essences are made from garden vegetables which is kind of unique.

Your weight-training sounds like it's just about to take off! I really admire your efforts because I've never been able to get into doing anything of that sort. I've tried in the past but it's not something that I enjoy doing. I tend to "trance out" when I exercise so counting all those sets and reps and watching my form is just more focus than I can bear. You should see me trying to do step aerobics or one of those Tai-Bo tapes, it's hysterical! I do better with swimming or running because they're so mindless. Maybe I should volunteer to shovel out stalls for Julie, that would probably qualify as mindless weight lifting! :)

Joy: about wondering who's still reading the forum...my theory is that if the sky was going to fall it would have done so by now, so I'm not going to worry about it anymore. :)

If the blood tests hadn't been offered here at work for free I most likely would never have done them. I actualy wish that I was a little more gung-ho to get started. I still have some mental blocks about dieting and body image that I'm trying to work through. I work in an office where several of the women are lifetime members at Weight Watchers. Every meal is an intense discussion of how many "points" each item contains and how many points have been spent that day. If you follow the plan then you are a good person, but if you have too many points then you are a bad person. I have enough esteem issues without judging my self-worth solely on what I put into my mouth! My other issue is that I tend to use my weight as a shield. There is a tendency in our culture to view overweight people as less intelligent, so as long as I'm heavy people won't expect too much from me.

Obviously your new scale is possessed by demons and should be tossed into a bonfire ASAP! :) If weighing yourself only in kilograms doesn't work you could move to the moon, then you'd only weigh 1/6th as much! hehehehe

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2002

Sherri, I just wanted to say how I admire your openness about these emotional issues; its not easy to do and makes you all the more lovable. Also remember feeling the same way when you mentioned how difficult it is for you to eat at a table with folks you dont know well, that eye contact is uncomfortable for you.

I'm gonna study this great thread later when I have more time; I have eating issues myself, and have gained over 20 lbs since moving to town, and lost my strength and stamina. Disgusted with myself right now; must do something about it.

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2002

Aw shucks EM! You're going to have me doing a Sally Field here....

clutching Oscar statue "You like me, you really like me!"

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2002

The new scale showed only 2 lbs. difference this morning . . . until I got on the old scale and discovered I'd dropped 2 lbs on that one. So there is still the 4 lb. differential. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'll be come deranged if I keep using both of them! ;-) I guess what I should do is drag the new scale off to somewhere I can use a balance beam scale. I think I could just go to the women's clinic and compare the new scale to the one there. I just have to get the oomph to do it. When I worked at the hospital, I knew where there were lots of scales I could use. Now I can't remember where they were. Anyway, if the new scale gives the same weight as a professional balance beam, maybe then I'll be able to accept this "heavier" scale.

Sherri wrote: "I still have some mental blocks about dieting and body image that I'm trying to work through. I work in an office where several of the women are lifetime members at Weight Watchers. Every meal is an intense discussion of how many "points" each item contains and how many points have been spent that day. If you follow the plan then you are a good person, but if you have too many points then you are a bad person. I have enough esteem issues without judging my self- worth solely on what I put into my mouth! My other issue is that I tend to use my weight as a shield."

I would avoid discussing anything eating related with those people who are fixated on their "points". I think people with weight problems already have self-esteem issues. If they didn't before they put on weight, they do AFTER the weight gain. And it's easy to fall into that good/bad business. That doesn't mean you have to join them. I wouldn't tell them anything about what you're doing. This is one of the reasons I haven't told many people about my efforts. Of the people I know in real life, I told 3 people -- mother, sister, and best friend (whose husband now knows too -- he noticed I'm shrinking, so I told him). The reasons I told you folks here is because previous posts (specifically, Denise, EM, and Alison) inspired me to look into this, and because some of you were already trying it. I have other groups of online friends on different boards, but I haven't brought it up with them. Some are prejudiced against low-carb; others, it just has nothing to do with what we're discussing.

"There is a tendency in our culture to view overweight people as less intelligent, so as long as I'm heavy people won't expect too much from me." Yeah, yeah -- and we're lazier, dirtier, less sexual, less honest, less moral, on and on. Anyone see that piece on 20/20 (by John Stossel) about whether there is discrimination based on looks? Knowing nothing about two people of similar age, dress, etc., the better-looking individual was perceived as being superior in all sorts of ways that had no basis in fact -- just the response of the observer to the "good looks". And of course, fat is NOT perceived as being attractive (not in this culture, anyway). Sometimes we can use those stereotypical projections as a way to hide, as Sherri mentioned, and as I KNOW I've done; but its a double- edged sword. It hurts to have those assumptions made, and to be judged for appearance rather than true personality. I've used being overweight as a way to avoid having to compete (many different levels), but it has also handicapped me when I DID want to compete.

This time, I'm in this at least as much for improved health and mobility as to lose weight. Actually, I've been to that point in attitude for a number of years, but it wasn't until I discovered PP that I found something that I thought would work. And, I have stayed on this eating change longer than any other since 1983. I was on Nutri-System (later bought out by Jenny Craig) then, which worked, but once I reached goal, and had to try to go to "real life" cooking instead of buying their EXPENSIVE food, I just didn't do it. I hadn't learned how, it wasn't an ingrained habit, and it was much easier to just go back to old eating habits. I remember being hungry almost all the time on their eating plan.

Well, that's a bunch of rambling, but I guess I'll post it anyway! Oh, and Sherri, of COURSE we really, really like you! And EM, don't beat yourself up, you've had a transition time and that's stressful. Maybe some of your choices weren't the best ones, but that doesn't mean you're disgusting! I really, really like you too! On that soppy note, I'd better go walk the dog before the light goes.

-- Anonymous, October 29, 2002

Here's some good news. My friend Oz, who is even a bigger beer snob than I am, tried some Michelob Ultra this weekend and gave it a thumbs-up. :)

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2002

The new scale is not possessed by demons. It is merely the bearer of bad news -- it is indeed more accurate than my old scale. {sigh} I guess I'll have to deal with it! I still have lost the same amount, I just started at a higher weight than I thought. {phooey}

I guess I'll just make note of the change at my next "official" weigh- in (I record it weekly, though I check it all the time) and go from there. Another ten pounds or so, and I probably won't think about it anymore.

I don't like beer much. It's good to put in stew, or to cook brats. Interestingly, times when I have drunk beer, I have gotten congested. I suspected I was allergic to beer, maybe the hops. But now that I know that I'm sensitive to grains, I bet that was it! I much prefer hard cider, but that's too high carbs for regular drinking anyway.

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2002

Thanks for the comforting words, Joy, and I really really like you guys too!!

I cant drink beer anymore, but when I did, I loved dark, flavorful, preferably foreign beers. Cant stand most American beers.

-- Anonymous, October 30, 2002

Joy...have you ever tried "beer chicken"?? It's delicious. You use a whole roasting chicken. Take a can of beer and either drink the first half or dump it...whatever you want... and set the half empty can in the roasting pan. Place the chicken on top of the can of beer! The chicken will be sitting up with the can up it's...well you know! Then bake it. As the beer evaporates it permeates the body cavity and really makes the chicken very tender and flavorful!! Honestly, it's delicious :-)!! And I don't even like beer!

-- Anonymous, October 31, 2002

No beer for me! YUK! And it's a good thing I don't like it because if I had liked beer as much as I like chocolate and indulged in both, I would have had twice as much weight to lose.

But I have tried things cooked in it and they tasted really good. I couldn't say they tasted much like beer though. How did that happen? The beer chicken sounds worth a try!

-- Anonymous, October 31, 2002

Beer chicken is great!! I used to use beer in lots of recipes, but unless someone makes a beer that isnt wheat-or-its-relatives-based, Bren can't eat it, cuz she's gluten intolerant. You would not believe how many things have grains in them (especially wheat) until you have to eliminate them from your menu, right Joy? Makes it very difficult to cook. I am getting better at it though.

Which brings to mind something I think I forgot to mention before. Because I have had to learn to bake without wheat, I use a lot of almond flour, which of course is just ground almonds. I buy it online by the 5 lb tub. I really dont bake nearly as often anymore, but I do usually make sure there are some almond muffins around. Last night I made some banana ones to use up aging bananas. They taste absolutely wonderful; I use half the honey the recipe calls for cuz almonds are sweet, and even less when I add bananas or other sweet fruit, and that all they need. So these muffins taste like you are eating regular high-carb ones, but you are eating mainly protein, they are very filling, and almonds are good for ya.

-- Anonymous, October 31, 2002

So post the recipe already! I might still think they're too high carb, but maybe not. And other people might not be fazed at all. They SOUND delicious! Sudden thought -- I could make them in those mini-muffin size to make them a smaller treat. Do they freeze well?

-- Anonymous, October 31, 2002

They freeze great! I guess they could very well contain too many carbs for a very restricted diet; somebody else could figure out the carbs cuz I dont have the time right now. You can cut the honey down even further too. But if they are, its a great recipe for later, when your diet isnt quite so strict, cuz they're still relatively low in carbs, and very high in protein.

ALMOND MUFFINS

2½ cups ground nuts (you can try other nuts too) ¼ cup melted butter, or yogurt ¼ cup honey (or less) ½ tsp baking soda large pinch salt 3 eggs 1 tsp cinnamon (if you like it)

Just beat the eggs, honey and butter, add everything else and blend together. I make mine in my Kitchenaid mixer, but if you need to grind the almonds first, might be easier to do the whole thing in a blender. Bake 350* for 15 to 20 minutes.

I use paper cupcake liners cuz my muffin pans are aluminum (I've replaced most of my aluminum bakeware but haven't yet been able to find stainless muffin pans. Also these muffins tend to stick.

That's all there is to it!

-- Anonymous, October 31, 2002

I don't drink beer very often, usually just when I'm out at a pub. I prefer dark beers too, especially Guiness.

I have the very best boyfriend in the whole wide world! We email each other at work during the day. I mentioned that I wasn't happy with my weight and that I was thinking about starting the Atkins eating plan after Thanksgiving. His first response was that I look just fine to him as I am, and his second response was that he probably could stand to use a few pounds too so he would do the plan with me. :)

-- Anonymous, October 31, 2002

Sounds like you got a keeper, Sherri!

-- Anonymous, October 31, 2002

I'm starting a new thread for November, so post anything further there. And thanks for the muffin recipe, EM -- I somehow missed seeing it last night! {rolleyes}

-- Anonymous, November 01, 2002