Any one need a pig ? I'll trade for some fencing

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Well I still have these 2 boars I can't get rid of. If They are still here by next weekend , I'm going to take them over to a bar in Knoxville and the first car I find unlocked in the parking lot , I'm gonna open the dooor and leave them in the back seat .Wouldn't the owner of the car be surprised when they get in their car and feel the mouth of a hog slobering on their ear .That'll be a site to catch on a camcorder.If anyone is in the Maryville area of east Tenn. and they like pork , I have an offer you won't refuse .They're about 150lbs.

-- SM Steve (unreal@home.com), August 18, 2002

Answers

Steve, I sure wish you were closer, I'd gladly take them off your hands. I'd even drive over but the trouble is my truck died & I now haul all my feed,etc in my Chevy Lumina which btw will hold 450# of meat builder, two hay forks,numerous chicken waterers,two rolls of 50'/ 4ft high chicken wire & a large dog kennel at one time. Around here it's hard to find pigs to raise up, only butcher size (230+ #)ones are available. I like to raise them with my own special grain mix-makes for some tasty pork chops & sausage. Take a picture if you 'gift' someone with a pig at the bar. Best would be some poor city guy. LOL

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), August 18, 2002.

I also have a sow that's going to give birth soon and I don't want the hog to eat the babies. I had fifty hens last year that were a mix of fighting game, wyandottes , egyptian ,local leghorn and silver spangled hamburg. The mix gave a chicken that was quality meat low fat and grew fast enough to be a meat bird.I bred hens and roosters selectivly for 4 years to get the qualities I like in meat birds .Their chicks would have been my meat supply for this year but the hens kept on flying into the pigs cage.I have 5 hens left .It's my first time raising pigs and my last .I found I only have the ability and means to handle goats and chickens.And it's the only meat I like .

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 18, 2002.

Hi Steve, would love to have one...I'll have to figure out the logistics of getting it though. Our truck is down...maybe I can put it in the back of an suv...hee hee That'd be a sight. Just kidding! I need to call around and find someone to butcher and cure. Know anyone? I don't have any fencing to trade, anything else?

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), August 18, 2002.

I guess I must have been really lucky, we always raised all of our pork and we had as many as 250 chickens at the same time-never had any eaten by the pigs. The pigs were in a seperate pen but as you know chickens know no boundaries. I have two rolls of 6' high 2"x4" welded wire fence 50' long- Brand new, any interest in a trade along with my paying the cost of transporing those piggies to KY?? I also have a brand new boxwood wood stove still in the crate if that sounds better along with ducks- lots of ducks:). Here's my zip code for you to do a mapquest to see if it's a possibility. 42166 since I have no idea how far you are from me.

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), August 18, 2002.

Annie , if you want him he's yours.There's a few places around here that do the buthcering. And I think there's a place that smokes and honey or salt cures them also.I could find the phone # if you need it .I have nothing to haul him in other wise I'd deliver. I was thinking of turning him loose in the woods , but it would probably find it's way to a road and get hit by a car , so if you want him , just say when and I'll e-mail you with my phone #.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 18, 2002.


Steve, since you found a possible home for the boars are you going to be selling any of the piglets when they're weaned? Those I can put in my big dog kennel in the Lumina-I've done it before. I'd be interested in 2 or 3 depending on the price & size-they have to fit in my car. Thanks Steve

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), August 18, 2002.

Kathy ,I guess I was making the offer to Annie the same time you were posting.I offered her the pig for free ,so I'll make you the same offer as her with the other one.I was at the Sweet Water Tnn. flea market and a guy had one the same size as mine and couldn't get $35.00 for it .And a friend who sells poultry at Crossville wouldn't take it there even if we split what he sells it for , cause he told me it wasn't worth hauling it cause it most likely wouldn't sell.The market is dead on hogs , even the babies are getting hard to sellbut al least they're selling .I have no hauler . I'm an hour and a half drive from Crossville.Outside Maryville ,Tnn, that's near Knoxville .If you want him let me know I'll e-mail you

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 18, 2002.

Steve, thank you but I can't figure out how to haul him home. Too bad- I don't even know anyone with a truck that has a cap on it. But I am interested in the piglets when weaned those I do know I can haul in a car. Let me know if you want to sell any, I will drive to your area to pick them up when they're ready or meet you at one of the sales if you'd prefer. It would also be nice to meet another Countrysider- we're a rare breed.:) (some might say odd but I prefer rare-LOL) Thanks again,KA

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), August 18, 2002.

Hmmmm. I'm confused. ( the natural state). Why are pigs out of favor? It's MY favorite meat. I know the prices are down, but perhaps it is because of the heat and the time of year. Isn't hog butchering traditionally a late fall/winter sport? Goodness, around here you say free, and there is a stampede! I'm truly hard pressed to understand how come there isn't a single family in your area who wouldn't want to put that fellow in the freezer for their winter food supply. Jeeze, even the country people must have two many pennies in their pockets these days.

-- Granny Hen (cluckin along@cs.com), August 19, 2002.

I know Granny, I'm still trying to figure out if a 150# pig would fit in the back of a Lumina. :) I was raised on home grown pork and still believe "Pork Fat Rules" :). Late fall, my dad would get a couple of male cousins to come help and they'd butcher 2 or 3 pigs. It was a big deal-all the family came together to do the work and share up the meat. Rendering lard-I still remember that smell- Yuck,but the pie crusts made with it were the best. I learned how to cut meat and make sausage a young age, little did I know just how handy those skills would be when I grew up. I haven't had pickled pig hocks for a number of years, most folks don't care for them but I love em. About country folks not being as thrifty as when we were young; I placed an ad for someone to help butcher my roosters in exchange they'd get half of them for free. Do you know I got calls from people who wanted them dressed & frozen & FREE. When I explained that I needed help butchering them and when we got them done they got half to take home for no money they said no thanks-too much work!! So I'm just waiting until Tom comes home for the long holiday weekend & we'll butcher them. Every time I try to give something away I get calls wanting me to deliver a free item to their door-they never offer to pay for my travel or gas-the world has changed while I wasn't looking.:) Many good folks but it seems we only come in contact with the stinkers when we try to give away something in exchange for work.

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), August 19, 2002.


Granny , the price of hogs here was 20 cents a pound live weight , 2 months ago. I figured I'd hold out til they went up. A big mistake. I did find someone here who wanted one for free , but it's been over a week and he only lives 2 miles down the road and he still hasn't come around. I'll probably put up a free sign at a few of the feed stores ,but I know who ever takes it will probably be a livestock broker who eats at Mc burgers fast food places and only buys and sells livestock. I figured if I couldn't sell the hogs , I'd at least get the pleasure of giving them away instead of someone profiting from my lose...Either way I'm in no position to keep on spending money on their feed so I'll put the sign up .The way it is here , someone will say free is still too much and I'll be bargined down ? Most here don't put up meat . Most eat out of the stores.This is not homesteading country. And every year it's getting harder to find hay for my goats. I only eat meat products that I raise and slaughter myself . And I was born in a big city where I lived til I was 18. It kind of a spiritual thing. I have to know that the animal had a good life and was treated kind while it was alive. I 've seen some cows at cattle auctions with 10 pound cancer tumors on them , more than once , and they get sold for meat . If I couldn't raise my own meat I'd be a vegetarian.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 19, 2002.

Arrrrrrgh, this is killing me!!! I keep trying to figure a way....but no! Darn it! I can get good hay, and I even have some loverly purebred does, but Steve, you are too darn far!

It is terrible how people are so lazy about food....it's brought the agicultural industry to what it is today. Steve, I also wasn't raised on a farm, I'm so envious of folks (Kathy, are you listening, ;-) that have more knowlegde in their pinky fingers that I do. I've learned a lot though! :-)

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 19, 2002.


Patty, this is killing me too!!! I can't find a truck. Steve, I went down to my neighbors last night to see if he knew anyone that had a truck with panels and he's working on it for me, but if you can find someone in the meantime......My neighbor is from Maryville and his dad still cures hams himself in the fall. He told me there's a good place on Chapman Highway that will process the pig, he takes deer there, but I'm having a time as far as transporting the pig. urrrrrrrrr

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), August 20, 2002.

Patty , It is equally frustrating that your offering a purebreed doe for these hogs .Goats are my favorite livestock that walk on 4 legs , They're vegetarians. .One reason I won't eat pork no longer , when I was looking for a web site that might have some information on how to slaughter a hog, ( I thought it might be different than slaughting a goat ) I found a web site that talked about trichinosis .That weaned me out of my likings for those sweet tasting baby back ribs and cured hams. I thought only sushi which is blowfish was the only food that had a risk of eating. I ended up slaughtering one of my hogs in June. And cooked it til it was almost burnt before I'd eat it. It's hard for me to enjoy eating something that can be a health hazard if I cooked it wrong .In my search that led to the info on trichinosis I learned another favorite meat I've eatin only a few times ,black bear also can have trichinosis. Here's a web site I found that discouraged me . http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/pubs/pork.htm............................. .............................I ended up searching for more info on trichinosis and found this site............................ http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001884.htm ............ Now I'll add pork to my list of sushi and baracuda , those mean looking fish. I used to fish off the ocean when I lived in Florida and I caught a baracuda off the pier. I was told by some , how to cook it and one guy was saying it's good to eat , another told me it could be harmful. I didn't want to chance it and gave it away .So no more pork for me...I was a vegetarian for 10 years and started eating meat after someone gave me a birthday present of a pair of Guinea fowl , this was years ago . They ended up being 2 males , so they became dinner. It was the first meat I ate in years and I found I was missing that protien rush needed to live in steep mountainous country.

-- SM steve (Unreal@home.com), August 20, 2002.

Annie when you come to get the hog. you'll see why I was trying to trade for some fencing.That rule about getting housing and fencing up before you bring home animals hasn't hit me until after four years that I've been here and starting raising goats again .At least I had the housing up before I bought any , for when it rains and for them to keep warm on those cold winter nights...The fencing , that still needs working on .

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 20, 2002.


I have a truck, and large stock cage....but I wouldn't risk driving it that far. :-(

Steve, how come you don't run a few strands of hotwire? I thought you were moving(?), if I were moving, I wouldn't be pulling fence! ;-) I sorta dislike fencing, myself. If I had a (not manual) post hole digger it wouldn't be so bad. But even so, I run hot along the top to keep them off the fences. I'm actually running electric fence this morning (also walking the fenceline). That's one problem, it stormed last night and it's down somewhere. You have to check it often. However, overall, I really like it. My acreage is very steep, many creeks, and much of it is wooded. Although the paremeter of the 30 acres is fenced fairly well with woven wire, and I have many good pens and paddocks up close, much of it is cross fenced with electric. This is good for pasture rotation, as well as separating by species as well as age groups, etc.

*Another meaningless sidenote* :-P One good thing this morning (!!!), I reroofed the back side of my house yesterday, just roll roofing (I thought I'd be able to redo the entire thing with tin this year, but I realized I'll have to wait as I'm short funds and time was slipping towards winter) and it didn't leak a drop in that torrential downpour! Yippee! I tell ya, it about killed me, soooooo hot and those darn rolls are heavy!

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 20, 2002.


My place is alot like yours Patty, much of it's very steep ravines or heavy woods backed by a yr round creek. It's perimeter fenced with 5 strand barb-great for cattle but not goats or much else. I've been slowly putting cattle panels around the pastures just inside of the barb wire. I would like to have goats down here since I enjoyed them so much up in WI but not until I get that fence done. I have plenty of rolled fence but found that I can't unroll it & attach it by myself so that's why I went to the cattle panels. Plus I found the panels could be cut to work with the land contours easier. I wish all of you guys could live nearby-there's lots of farmers but very few of what I'd call homesteaders in the area. There's a 200(?) acre place up for auction about 12 miles from me at the end of a dead end road -ALL of the other places on the road are Amish. In fact the little Amish bulk food store I go to is on that road. If anyone is interested let me know & I can send you some information. Patty, what a nice compliment-that really made my day, sometimes when I do the same thing day after day I forget that it is a special lifestyle that I'm living. I just wanted you all to know that I value the conversation,friendship & information that I get here. I've been in a 'blue funk' for quite a while now but after reading about your lives & goals, I'm starting to realize just how blessed I am to have my country place & it is nice to know that I am not alone in this adventure-although we're living all over the country you're only a mouse click away when I need some advice or friends. Stan, thanks for keeping this site up & running! Have a great day, Kathy

-- Kathy Aldridge (beckoningwinds@yahoo.com), August 20, 2002.

Patty , The reason I don't run hot wire is, useing the politicly correct word ,economiclly disabled .I'm poor at the present time and Don't have the money .I was making money playing music and one of the band members had to leave for about 8 months to take care of her grandfather who had surgery and some complications , in another state . That put a damper on everything .She left a month before we were suppose to go into a studio to record . When she came back to Tnn. the whole band was out of sync. Now we are back at practicing and trying to get back into practicing for 8 hours a day , so we can make a CD with a quality sound. Between the music , cutting fire wood ( my only heat source ) milking and taking care of the goats , ( I walk them everyday in the hills behind my house as their main source of food ) and the slauthering of a chicken every day for dinner , laundry , a sping garden , I have become highly unorganized latley from trying to do more than I can handle.. I was also caring for my ex-wife until about 4 months ago and that drained alot out of me.The next person who runs for President with the campaine promise of adding 6 hours to each day , has my vote. Part of the reason for moving is my brother , his wife and son are in rural Oregon and they said they'd share in the raising of the chickens and goats if I do the slaughtering. It would give me more time to put into the music ,that pays well enough to live off of. ..I'd rather not , but I was thinking of giving up all the animals for awhile if it interfered with the music . Again Oregon would be the place for me to live cause they have enough people who eat Organically grown produce , it isn't considered a specialty food and it's cost isn't for the rich and famous as it is on the east coast of the country .So I could rest from gardeing if I needed to . And because it's by an Ocean , there's fresh sea food sold ,to replace the protien I get from the goats and chickens. And most of all , unlike the polluted air in the Smokey Mountains area , they have oxygen in the air over there..... Well they will when the fires go out ...So far it's planned that I'm taking my 4 milk goats and a buck with me when I move . The meats goats I'll sell off . I have only 4 acres of land so steep , most visiters fall at least once while they're here...I'm so use to it , I get off balanced when I walk on flat land now. The fencing I wanted to put up is to keep my goats on a piece of flat land I have , so they don't come near the house...I'd use T post that are bang in the ground. I have some money for the T post , I just need the woven wire . Because the goats run free , the place doesn't look appealing and it'll scare off the type of people who are looking to buy land in this area . They are far from the homesteading type. More like the hot tub on the deck type , so they can sit in the tub at look at the mountains. I like raising livestock for home use, but I've only made profits on animals I bought cheap and sold for a little more. Latley even the ones here who were making a living from it have been looking for other ways to make money . I think it was the USDA report I got this from , but a month ago I read that farmers were going to lose 4.3 billion dollars in livestock sales this year . ...Kathy I been on this forum for a month now. I too thank Stan for his work in putting together this great meeting place. Thanks Stan!!!! Your appreciated more than you realize .Since I stay around at home alot latley , this has been where I socialize. I only get to talk homesteading when I have some animals to trade or sell . Most people in my neighborhood only want to talk about other people and the scandels that go on, like who's husband or who's wife is sleeping around behind their spouse's back. I don't like to hear gossip. Half is usually untrue anyway . Too much free time.If only they homesteaded , they wouldn't be so bored. And talk so much non- sense.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 20, 2002.

Gonna chime in and give a big thanks to Stan too. Thanks Stan. :)

Steve, know what you mean about walking up and down these hills all the time. Being from Ky., I used to get teased when I lived in Indiana that one of my legs had to be shorter than the other to climb hills. ha ha They thought they were so funny. Walking up my front "yard" carrying a half bushel of tomatoes is good for the ol' heart, so I don't mind it. Jokes on them, I don't need aerobics to stay in shape. :) Am glad to hear you all have the same type of terrain. When I used to read the CS forum, I thought that everyone had these huge expanses of flat fields and I was the only one struggling with a rocky, steep hill to try and produce anything on. It's been a challenge, but I've learned alot doing things the hard way. And had to get real inventive to boot! Steve, I've been wanting to get goats, maybe by next spring, so if you don't mind...when you have some time....I'd like to pick your mind on how you've done it living on steep property and some other questions too. Would that be ok? This fall we're going to be building a place for the chickens and hopefully for goats. I can't hardly wait. I'm getting so tired of hot weather and this yucky air, although we have had rain and it helped alot. Even saw blue skies the other day. Yay!

I know I'm getting windy here, but....I read in the paper the other day about the ozone problems we've been having. Seems ozone is always in the air naturally, but when you add in too much exaust from cars, coal fired plants and the heat of summer (natural haze) along with no rain, then it gets to be a problem. It is getting worse here in the summer.

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), August 20, 2002.


Annie , I'll share what ever I know about goats ,Milk and meat breeds.I have a Tennessee fainting goat and a pygmy goat doe also. Any questains just ask. I don't know if your looking for milk goats or meat goats .I don't have any milkers I'd sell due to Only one milker doe kid born here this year.The rest of the milkers kids born this year were bucks, 6 of them and 2 meat goat bucks.I do know someone who has some fine Nubian goats who I could get you in touch with. It's good to look at a few different herds, way in advance , they're all not the same. And I know a French Alpine breeder who is involved with U.T in Knoxvilles livestock research. He's always updated on the lastest new info on goats health through the university.And he's friendly and trust worthy .

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 20, 2002.

Awwww, Kathy, I'm giving you a big hug! :-) It's tough doing it alone, it is. I know you aren't 'alone', but you do have to do a lot of stuff yourself...I sung the blues lately myself. I can relate. It is really good to be able to bounce things off others that are in similar lifestyle situations.

Steve, heh heh. "Politically correct", that's a good one. You sound a bit overwhelmed, and, again, I can relate. But.....you know, things work out. I didn't realize that you were caring for your ex till only four months ago. It must have been incredibly emotionally draining, perhaps this change with the critters under others' care, will be a welcome freedom. Good luck! Oh, and I still think the hot wire is your very cheapest bet. I love those little come-along crank tightener things, they work great.

Annie, I'd give you a nice doeling. But it's a clip to come get one! Really, I'm wanting to only keep a very few, and I'd love to see someone start out with a decent animal to "build on". I've given does to 4-H kids, for example. :-)

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 20, 2002.


oops Steve, posting at the same time again!

Annie, I forgot to say, I mostly raise French Alpines, but also LaManchas, Nubians, and this year....grades(one of the purebred bucks escaped and he wasn't very choosy about breed!). I used to have a few angoras, but no more. The grades are actually really NICE, hybrid vigour! We were up to close to 100 goats last spring......waaaaaaaay down now.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 20, 2002.


Patty you say you were up to , close to 100 goats. Does it get hard counting them when you have so many ? I have to always count mine to figure how many I have ..... , 20 or 21 ? was the highest I've had at once , that was this spring. I think I have 12 now ? , I'd have to count . I slaughtered one yesterday , and tommarow I need to slaughter another , he's part pygmy and he's interested in my Alpine , I don't want Alpine pygmy crosses. I don't think I'll ever get used to slaughtering a goat. The skinning and cleaning ain't bad , it's just when you have to call them to the area where you slaughter them , and they run over to ya thinking your gonna feed them. I thought the electric wire might not keep out dogs , and if it kept in the goats , they'd get trap in and the neighborhood dogs might be able to corner them and possibly kill em. Than there's that few hundred feet of extension cords. Do electric wire fence hold in the goats well or do they escape ? .

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 20, 2002.

That is odd, come to think of it, I don't "count" them for the most part. I suppose I should do it that way. Seems safer.

Since I usually segregate them, it's pretty easy to keep track. Most times the kids would be separated at birth, but this year I let some do both, for convenience. They take a bottle, but nurse their moms as well, if needed. So that's a bit confusing....but since there aren't many, it's no big deal.

I'd actually have to really think about how many I have out there right now. And the way I would "count", is the way I "check" them. By the better known milkers (then count kids) and yearlings...not so much by amount, I can scan and see it in my head better than counting. I guess that's weird. But I can scan and see who may be...."not quite right", as well. Wait, lets see.....(current milkers), Amethyist, Celeste, Mouse, Meggie, Dixie, Nelly, Scarlet.... (the kids all have names, but I 'forget' till I decide who we are going to keep) A. had a buck/doe, C. 2 does, M. Buck/doe, M. 3 does, Dix is dry(she likes being with the milkers, *sigh*, I stopped fighting with her about it since she's well behaved except for that.), N. 2 does, S. 2 bucks. Then I have, 3 good bucks. Aaaaaand, Bramble, Bianca, Nebula, Breena, Fern, Anne-marie, Pearl.......an even 30? Preeetty sure! ;-)

I can't butcher them myself, but I make sure the person doing it does it right. It's good you can do it Steve. My friend Penny never could stand taking her goats off the farm because it terrified them, so she learned to butcher hers. We show ours, so it doesn't seem so bad...I don't know, I guess I'm a big baby.

Yeah, I'd say the fence will work fine. You don't have to run extension cords, just run wire from the house. As for the dogs....they can kill goats anytime, I would rather them have to get through a fence to do it. Plus, I'm not understanding(?)....if you fence them in with woven wire, dogs can easily dig under....so, electric fence isn't so much "less safe" in my experience....unless it's really secure, then you most likely end up with a much smaller pen.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 20, 2002.


Patty , I don't know, maybe I need to have my blood Iron count, checked. I hear about all these goats and .. ..bottle feeding !!!!! I know there's alot of strong women out there , but now I'm starting to think I've become lazy and I'm just realizeing it . or Maybe I'm just the equivalent of , the runt of the litter.Or my mom ate nothing but candy bars when she was pregnant with me . Sounds like you have alot of work. I don't think I'd be able to handle so many goats. Amazing. I need a bag of that Purina " Animax " that Kathy talks about. Maybe if I ate a pound of it everyday for a few months I'd be able to handle the small amount of goats I care for. Thanks for the fencing info . I'm gonna check out the electric fences at the feed store.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 20, 2002.

Thanks Patty and Steve. I'm wanting to get milker goats. I'd love to try my hand at making cheese and such. I bought a few books on raising goats, but honestly I'm more of a hands on type and think up questions that books don't seem to answer. I have great respect for people who can learn from just reading something, I guess that I'm not one of em! :) So glad I've got you all to bounce questions off of. Thanks.

Patty, the fencing was one of the questions I had. Thanks. I had read where goats were hard to keep penned and up on this hill I would hate to be chasing them around. I have a 75 foot square area close behind the house that I was thinking about fencing in. It's not a very steep area. Is this enough room for the goats? I was thinking about putting the chickens in that area too...do goats and chickens get along? When I build the shed, can I design it for goats on one side and chickens on the other? Steve, do you have trouble with your goats eating any of our native plants that might not be good for them? I've got alot of poke that grows here and mostly redbud trees. Thanks much!

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), August 21, 2002.


Oh not at all, Steve! I'm giving the wrong impression! It's facilities and management. It's actually easier. We have a milker, and the "bottle" feeding is a Bucket with nipples (lamb bar). I just find this more active management produces better results all the way around.

Annie, goats _ARE_ hard to keep in! LOL. I really would "prefer" woven wire and electric on top for everything, buuuuut, as Steve pointed out, time, money, terrian..... I wouldn't house chickens and goats together, myself. Many people do, however. Don't quote me, but goats can test positive for..I think it's brucolosis(sp?) when housed with poultry. Also, cocci would be way more of an issue, I would think. Especially in close quarters. Oh, and no electric fence for chickens, they don't "get" it. ;-) 75 sf, would be fine, but you would have to feed hay. I do anyway, and a good ration....at least to all the kids and milkers.

Steve, even a smaller fencer would do the job for awhile. I bet one of those dog ones would work teeeemporarily. I imagine, if nobody has an extra and you bought one, probably you could find something that would work for 40.00$. Then t-posts....you can space them twice as wide as with woven wire...16 ft? So even 10 would give you a pen 32 by 48. Then all you need is a crank thing (a few bucks), solid copper ground, insulators, and wire. In a pinch, you can use other things for insulators, like old garden hose. Now, I'm not saying this is the grandest set up, but cheap, very workable, and looks decent.

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow@aol.com), August 21, 2002.


Annie , about the poisonous plants here ,My goats won't eat poke until this time of year. It doesn't seem to be toxic to them. But they stay away from it, from spring til now.They like it once it has the purple berries , which I've heard is a natural dewormer ,but I don't know if it does kill worms. Now the rodadendrom , or mountain laural, I don't know the true name maybe they are called bought. Every goat I've bought or that was born here has got into it at least once.It gets them belly ache type sick for about 12 hours where they cry and vomit.I've never lost a goat to this but usually they go off feed for 12 to 24 hours and vomit and cry for awhile.It's impossible for me to keep them away from it , so I let them all go through this form of initiation.They'll usually just get sick once. They eat the mountain laural mostly in winter because there's not much green stuff to eat. So they start to nibble on the mountain laural because it's ever green and has leaves all year. One reason I walk my goats is, I'll take then up the mountain behind my house to eat pine tree saplings in winter , in summer they''ll eat hardwood saplings that I don't know the names of .The pine appears to have no toxic affect and they eat it alot in winter along with pine bark. If they are kepted penned , I'll take a walk in the woods with a branch prunner , and snip bottom branches of trees mostly pine in winter , hardwood and pine in summer. And I'll throw the branches in the pen.....One thing I like about goat milk and meat is , The goats eat so many different kinds of trees and wild herbs, and I feel these herbs have different kinds of nutrients that humans need , but would other wise not be able to get a source of these nutrients in their diet any other way. All the meat people buy in the stores , has only been fed basicly ,grains and vitamins, and they lack all those micro nutrients that the goats get when allowed to eat a wide variety of of wild foods....I have heard of goats eating wild cherry and dieing from it. I imagine the goats didn't have any other trees to forage on and the wild cherry was at the edge of their pen and was the only forage they could reach.So they fill up on it and die. But I've never had my goats have this problem.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 21, 2002.

Patty , I picture you and Kathy raising all these animals and still having energy at the end of a long day . I guess me being highly unorganized , I end up doing more work than is necessary while getting less acomplished ...Being systematic and organized could make less ammount of work while raising more animals...Being unorganized is one of my weaknesses that I need to correct.I need to see more of what others do , this would help me to get organized and help me run things systematically. Since little homesteading is done around my area ,there are no examples for me to learn from.........I forgot to give input on chickens and goats living together . Chickens can get goats water dirty and goats won't drink dirty water. If one goat berry ( manure ) gets in a freshly filled water bucket my goats won't drink. Chicken manure is real messy and I'd think it could make the goats get sick. It could make people sick and humans could get certain diseases from the dry chicken manure dust in the air. It's good to use a dust mask ,the ones with the filters when cleaning out a chicken coop. And I'd think it would be a good idea for those who have children to , not let the children help cleaning out the chicken coop.A lot of commercial poultry farmers get lung disease from poultry manure dust...... Also I had a hen go in the goat shed and lay her eggs to sit , After the eggs hatched, the chicks got trample on by the goats.I didn't realize the eggs hatched, other wise I would have taken them out... And I've heard seasoned goat people who really know their stuff, say goats can't get cocidiosis from chickens , it's a different type that goats and chickens get . I believe a yearling I lost last year got it from chickens, and because I didn't know of or ever hear of cocidiosis , I lost the doe. I didn't know about sulmet or albon pills, that could have saved her life.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 21, 2002.

Thanks Steve, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. See, even unorganized homesteaders have valuable info to share. :) I only have one azalea up here and it's in front, so I should be ok on that...but I've got alot of poke up here...thanks for the info on it. I think I'll keep the chickens seperate. Thanks. I want to try and get it all built and fenced before I get the animals and am trying to do it right the first time so I don't have to redo everything! I usually just jump right into things and then end up redoing it all. It's getting to be too much hard work doing things my old way. Hope after all these years, I just might be getting a teeny bit smarter! :)

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), August 21, 2002.

I am hoping y'all can help me. I was searching the internet for info on roasting a pic in the Knoxville/Marysville area (Alcoa?).

I'm form Toronto Canada and I travel to the Knoxville area every month in the summer with 20 to 50 of my closest friends. We all bring our motorcycles and ride the Smokies for a week or so.

Our coming trip in October happens to fall on our Canadian Thanksgiving. I am hoping to host a pig roast for my friends, but I have no idea where to find a fully dressed pig to roast, or a fully roasted pig.

Can anyone help me out?

fuzzy1@fuzzy-riders.com www.fuzzy-riders.com

-- Fuzzy1 (fuzzy1@fuzzy-riders.com), September 21, 2003.


Are you gonna be riding the Dragon over at Deals Gap ?

I may be able to find a roasting pig by that time .

-- Steve (unreal@home.com), September 21, 2003.


Fuzzy , I checked your calender of events and saw you were gonna be riding up Deal's Gap in October .

Did you also need a PLACE to roast the pig ?

I'm close enough to the Lake and have parking for 50 bikers if ya all need a place to eat the little porker . Live music with one of Knoxville's top blues and rock band , can be provided at an extra cost .May as well make it a party .

-- Steve (unreal@home.com), September 22, 2003.


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