Joe, how are you fairing with the fires ? Having heard from family in south Oregon today, I was told they were packing up personal belongings cause they were under 48 hours evacuation notice because of the forrest fires. Highway 199 south to California was closed. I was also told another guy with his 12 cows and a bunch of dogs was under a 30 minute evacuation notice. How does someone move 12 cows and his dogs plus his family and some personal belongings in 30 minutes. Being at least four days drive away and having no-one to care for my goats if I'm not around,it made me wonder how could I help out people who might need assistance who are so far away ,.Would there be anyway I could help if I was there ?. Than I thought maybe it's possible to help from right here. This board is practically dead. But there are a few who read this forum, who post at other forums.If the word got around , maybe people who live close to the areas that are in the expected paths of the fires , but there homes are not in threat of fire , they'd be able to assist people in getting livestock to safety. There are fires now through-out the western states, Oregon isn't the only state, California and I think Colorado are also having trouble.I bet A pick-up truck with a trailer could be a God sent to some right now. Also a place for people to keep their livestock on for a few days could help ,until they can return home , if they have a home to return to. At least their land will still be there. In the hot weather we've been having, it's hard on animals that might be travaling ,they'll be mighty thirsty and hot . Maybe if this subject is spread through cyber-space at the light speed it travels, Collectively , a lot of people could be spared the heart ache of knowing their livestock or pets were burnt alive. My brother who lives in SW Oregon has a place to go . But others aren't as fortunate. Spread the word please.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), July 29, 2002

Answers

steve,what a blessing you are! And what a difference folks like you can make in the world!

Big Hugs! :)

-- earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), July 30, 2002.

Thanks so much for asking, Steve! And that's a good idea you'vegot there.

I'm not in an evacuation zone, I;m happy to say. I'm about forty miles away from that area. I have been watching the fire, though, for the last week or more. I live on a ridge with a view down past the fire.

The fire has had three or four really bad days; a couple of times the fire "exploded" with the result being that from my house it looked like someone had dropped three nuclear bombs. Truly amazing; actual mushroom clouds!

There are about 17,000 people now on alert for evacuation. The ones who were on 48 hour notice are now on the 24 hour notice,

There are now only the 30 minute notice and the 24 hour notice.

There is a lot of confusion about this. What hte 30 minute notice means is not that you have to be out of your house in thirty minutes. It means that you'd best start NOW moving your horses, cows, etc to another area, and packing up anything you don't want to lose, because the firefighters will likely be calling you soon, giving you a thirty minute warning. These folks have been on a thirty minute warning for a couple of days now. The winds didn't come up as bad as expected yesterday, so there was a little reprieve, though tthe fire continued growing "slowly" to about 100,000 acres.

Sunday, the fire "exploded" and was startng "spot fires" two miles ahead of the fire front. These are caused by burning "fire brands" (twigs, branches, etc which are blown ahead of the fire in full flames) So it's very hard for the firefighters to control this fire. It's also so hot and smoky that it's been necessary to pull all the troops off the firelines several times, as they were in severe danger of burning themselves up. The smoke also frequently is preventing the helicopters and tankers from delivering their "borate" loads because they can't see where to drop it.

I'm on a volunteer list with my pickup to help anyone relocate who needs help. So far, no takers. I guess most folks are waiting to see if they in fact get evacuated. Problem is, if they get 30 minutes notice, I can't get to their house that fast. I've also offered my home for refugees, so we'll see how that goes. The emergency preparedness agencies have already opened a shelter, but it's just one middle school gym at this point, and obviously isn't large enough to hold the numbers of folks who may be affected.

Our local Oregon State Forestry guy, Greg Gilpin, told a group of residents at a Sunday night meeting that it is very likely that every one who was at the meeting would be evacuated, and that this fire "can't be stopped" by the firefighters, and that it's the worst fire he's seen in his 32 years with the ODF.

The edge of the fire that I can see is about 30-35 miles long! Hard to get a handle on something like that, I'd think. It's also in extremely steep, isolated country, other than the edge where most the people live. There are now 40-50 city fire trucks parked along highway 199, which is where they plan to "make their stand" to protect the cities involved.

For some reason (I've been told it's likely a liability issue) we are NOT ALLOWED to volunteer to help in the firefighting efforts. I'm pretty incensed about this. (Poor choice of words, I suppose). Lots of us have had firefighting experience in the past, and even those who have not can certainly cut firelines while the fire is more or less dormant at night. The official site for the fire tells us that if we want to fight the fire, we have to be an employee of a federal or private firefighting agency. Dumb.

The other thing that REALLY pisses me off is that they didn't start fighting this fire for four or five days, and by then it was too late to do anything but throw borate and water at it, and cut line after line which gets jumped. What a waste. There are rumors that the fire was allowed to get this big in order to burn the "North Kalmiopsis Roadless Area" so that the Forest Circus can "salvage log" it. This is what happened in the 1987 Silver Creek Fire, with the result being huge protests, sit ins, tree perchers, etc. to prevent the roads being built. This area has been a focal point of enviros vs. loggers for decades, as it's one of the last unprotected natural areas in Southern Oregon.

Our county commissioners are, as we "speak" holding press conference declariing our county a disaster, asking for federal help, and asking for all residents to help in the evacuation.

What's not being mentioned, though (and I'm going to bring this up on their monthly "talk to the commissioners call in show" on KAJO at 9:30 this a.m. is that people make their homes "fire safe" if they haven't already done so, rather than just wringing their hands waiting for evacuation notices. There's a lot of stuff you can do along these lines, e.g. cleaning out your rain gutters, cutting "ladder fuels" (low branches on trees which can carry a fire from the leaves and duff up into the tree tops, resulting in a "crown fire" which is almost impossible to stop. They can also remove as much dead material from any trees near their houses, rake leaves and stuff away from the foundation, clean out leaves, and such from under decks, set up sprinklers on their roofs, if they have flammable roofs, screen openings under the house, or into the attics to keep burning embers out, and so forth.

Gotta go; I guess I gave you a lot more info than you asked for, but I think some of it might be of use to anyone who faces this kind of challenge.

Good day!

JOJ

-- joj (jump@off.c), July 30, 2002.

Earthmama, thanks for the uplifting words. Being far from the fires in Cave Juncition, Oregon , and not being able to grasp the whole picture of what's happening there. I can only naively make suggestions on the subject in hopes some good will come out of it. I did get back some up lifting words which are inspirering thanks , and a very discriptive view through Joe's eyes of what happening in Oregon. I had figured you'd be fighting the fires Joe. But I guess government intervention has grown to the point , that it limits our involement in our own communities , unless we have official status. This was a similar experience I found when wanting to help out in hurricane Andrew when it destroyed homes in south Florida. I had been in a major hurricane 2 years before Andrew and it was similar in strenght and destuctive force. I knew what type of help was needed from my experience but wasn't allowed to help .. Luckily in the hurricane I was in we didn't have a FEMA, to screw everything up. The government officials were victims of the hurricane I went through themselves so we were able to have the people helping people system with no restictions. And we the people did a much better job then if an authority like FEMA was involved . Because most FEMA officials have never dealt with a hurricane like Andrew , while they spent days trying to guess what they should do first, there were victims who went 3 days without drinking water. And the roads down there were blocked by government official road blocks, preventing people who had an idea what to do, from bringing supplies down. That created a hostile Enviorment down there, which led to the people who had supplies,protecting their supplies with guns .The hurricane I went through, people were going around asking if everyone had food and water and if they didn't , people were sharing the little they had with who ever needed it. And we were on an island ,there was no roads to expect help or supplies from. And the airports were damaged so planes couldn't bring supplies. But people were allowed to help each other. I remember the Kalmiopsis wildernss area , I once dropped off some friends down a unpaved road so they could hike and camp in that area. They wanted me to go hike and camp with them. I'm sorry now, I didn't go. It's Messed up that they let the fires burn as a means of getting around laws so they could log. I know the determination to get that valuable timber gets ruthless , so I wouldn't put it past those 2 legged termites thirst for timber as being the motive to let the fire burn awhile before trying to control it. Thanks for the descriptive visual effects. It's kinda sad what's happening there. and thanks for clearing up the procedure of evacuation. I talked with my sister inlaw today. She clarified the 30 minute notice also.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), July 31, 2002.

I took my generator out to some friends' place out near the fire, so they'd have power to run their pump in the event the power goes out. They're not in immediate danger, but the entire 17,000 person population of the Illinois Valley is now on a 30 minute "pre-evacuation" notice, meaning they should be ready to leave at a moment's notice. They're also being encouraged to leave now, so the roads won't get clogged up with a mass exodus. My friends are planning to stay and protect their property until the last possible moment.

Meanwhile, the fire has now grown to over 180,000 acres!!! Yesterday it was "slowly" growing and approaching 100,000.

When the two parts of this fire (the Sour Bisquit and the Florence fires) grow together, which was expected yesterday, but is now expected today, the east edge I am looking at from my house will be about 40 miles North to South!

Steve, similarly to your experience in the hurricane, there was a continuous line of disgruntled natives in Selma at the firefighting op center when I dropped by. Lots of anger, hostility, and threats of lawsuits against anybody and everybody, especially the Forest Circus. Gripes: no attempt to stop the fire for several days while it was small, no smokejumpers' base for the last twenty odd years, who could have most likely snuffed the fire in a few hours when lightning first started it, helicopters sitting on the ground doing nothing, tankers unable to drop retardent on the fire due to a lack of spotter planes, totally conflicting information about whether or not, and when to evacuate, helicopters flying many extra miles to get CHLORINATED water to drop on the fire (don't want the always fatal Port Orford Cedar fungus to get into the watersheds where it doesn't exist)

Smoke in the whole area was so bad today that I just now am getting a view of the fire. Yesterday I had a better view of it than the folks who are close by, as the smoke has been a near constant irritant to their eyes, lungs, and make the visibility very low.

If you want a map of the fire, go to http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/siskiyou/biscuitcomplex.html and click on the map's link.

Gotta go, I'm supposed to tow a woman's travel trailer over here with as much of her stuff as she and her kids can cram into it.

-- joj (jump@off.c), July 31, 2002.

Thanks for keeping us posted Joe .

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), July 31, 2002.

Yes, thanks for keeping us updated, Joe. Thinking about you and everyone else and hoping this ends soon...

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), August 01, 2002.

The firefighters made some headway this a.m. I saw huge flames on the ridge between the Illinois Valley and the Rogue Valley, but fortunately it was the firefighters doing a "burnout". They finally got the right weather conditions to beging backfiring along small sections of the 45 mile long cat trail they cleared over the last few days.

Nevertheless, it would surprise me if this fire is controlled before "the rains" start, sometime in November, most likely.

Hopefully, they will have backfired areas between towns and the fire well enough that the fires will remain in the forest, but I am bummed at the damage to the forest, too.

-- joj (jump@off.c), August 01, 2002.

It's still being mentioned on CNN news today. It hit a nerve when Paula Zahn on CNN made a joke about Oregon needing rain and asking one of the other 2 news men if they know how to do a rain dance and the 3 morons all broke out in a girlish giggle .. Watching the news these days is like watching a badly produced sitcom.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 02, 2002.

Steve, what exactly is a 'girlish giggle'? :(

-- earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), August 02, 2002.

Earthmama , your questain leaves me searching for an evasive distraction that might keep me from answering that questain. Watching what others do when they feel this way , I'm tempted to ask you a questain that's totaly off the subject as a means to accomplish this goal. But although that might work in a person to person conversation , it's not that effective on a forum. So I'll just say , a girlish giggle is a giddy type of laughter, usually displayed by but not exclusive to preteen girls , which Paula Zahn and the 2 other news men displayed...... Is it safe to take my foot out of my mouth yet ?

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 02, 2002.

Earthmama , your leaving me in suspence. I'm thinking I possibly unintentionaly offended you .Now I have the Beatles song : Fool on the hill, playing over and over in my mind.

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 03, 2002.

No no Steve, please do not worry about offending me personally. I rarely make that choice! I have not been on the internet too much the past few days cuz we always seem to be having electrical storms. Wish I could send some of this precipitation to those who really need it! WE are drowing here!

I loved your response actually, and once again appreciate your candor. Nothing accomplishes less, I think, than does defensiveness, and I am pleased, although not surprised, you didnt take that oh so common route.

That said, I will try to express my feelings upon reading the reference to 'girlish giggle."

I guess I feel that expressions like this are pretty much generically demeaning to femaleness, because, truth be told, they infer at least a modicum of inferiority about whatever behaviour is being discussed. Don't you agree? (another one I find annoying is 'throws like a girl', as if there were some biological reason that female humans cannot throw a ball beautifully or efficiently!).

Have you recently listened to a gaggle of 'typical' 14-year-old boys? :)

The ones whose voices are in the process of changing, whose hormones are raging, who take their cues from our entertainment culture?

I'll wager you'd agree that the noises which emanate from these young fellas is in no way more attractive, less annoying, or measurably more intelligent than anything comparable from their female compatriots. (I am in no way inferring all teens are of this ilk; I happen to be the proud mother of two, and friend to many of their friends, who are decidedly not in this category!)

In any case, my point is that, I would love it if you could be so kind as to at least consider in future that you could, because of the power inherent in being an accidental member of the power elite.......white males..... (!) that you could do a great service by contributing to the great cause of eliminating the hellish plague of sexism from our culture.

Words are powerful. Perhaps we can all try to empower each other to reach our highest heights. It aint easy, I know.

Perhaps the same very important point you were making in your original reference to the lack of compassion and understanding of the 'newscasters' (and it WAS important!) could have sufficiently been accomplished by connecting the silliness of the newsmen to the immaturity of boys, rather than girls, since the newsmen were, for the most part, men?

Perhaps I felt the need to respond because I was somewhat surprised to hear this kind of reference from you, Steve, because I have had such admiration for your thoughtfullness in your posts.

I patiently await your response, and anyone else's thoughtful comments.

Earthmama, definitely a work in progress.

-- earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), August 03, 2002.

Earthmama , I hoping my foot in my mouth doesn't end up down my throat , here goes . The risk I take might be an educational experience , For me .. and I thought I was being defensive ? The reason I referred to the style of the news mens laugh as girlish giggle , is I felt it was a conscious attempt by the producers of the show ( news ) to have the news men take on an effeminate persona . On a high rating TV sitcom that someone in my household likes to watch , and even though I Don't find the show enjoyable , I 've sat down and watched it to see what alot of the public referr to as good entertainment material . And in the best terms the english language has provided , I see a man in the show displaying the same effiminate persona as I felt the news men had ..I feel that if the man diplaying the effeminate persona in the sitcom show , was accidently offended by another man in his real life role , he would most likely punch the man who offended him in the head .But on the sitcom he's very docile, . And why I use words in terms of masculine or feminine is because they are discriptive words that are, whether I or you agree or disagree with those words and how they 're used , they are standard discriptive terms agreed upon by what's termed as the majority . Now , I too am conditioned ( brain washed ) by our society but I have redemable qualities and I listen well to others and I'm not afraid to incorporate or consolidate other peoples beliefs into my own providing the motives are of good intentions .. I questain the motives of why effeminate qualities , as I term it and maybe the correct terms might be gentle and sensitive, are being given to some mens roles on TV programs .From what I observe in real life drama, those qualities don't reflect the realities that exist . Maybe it's to balance all those years of the John Wayne macho personas that have dominated TV and movies and even real life roles expected of men . Although it could be benificial to project the ideas on TV that men and women no longer need to be controlled by a stereo typed role of what's acceptable standard behavior , when telling the news I would hope , like Barbra Walters or Dan Rather a news person would try to stay neutral and not portray personal behavior . As a observer of people and life I see qualities of men and women that are to an extent dominated by chemical make up of hormones. Maybe I still need working on to inhance my perspective and clearify the realities that surround me and bring them into better focus . One thing I became aware of 20 or more years ago was that after a woman gave birth , a hormone reaction of some type was activated that made it so their full attention was focused on their new born child. Even their attention to their other children had decreased , sometimes leaving the other children as feeling their mothers loved the newborn more than them . First born children are usually the most affected by this behavior of nature that affects their moms . Although women and men have alot of equal physical and mental capibilities , I' know there are women and men who have more physical strenght , better developed motor skills and mental and intellectual reasoning abilities and power then I . I still observe that men and women are bound to certain physical laws of nature , which influence our thinking . one being that only men are capable of fertilization whether through artificial or manual means ( science technologies may prove other wise ) and only women are capable of childbirth. And in survival situations such as the dommers pass story in california, when pioneers that were traped in the snow for a few months, most of the men died and most of the women survived the severe weather conditions while stuck in those snow covered mountains . I don't see the different hormonal qualities as one superioir and one inferior , but I see differences . And my refference to the news people as morons was not related to the way they laughed ( what I called girlish giggle) . But was the joking about a serious situation, I felt they joked possibly cause it didn't affect their city-fied lives and they could care less about a forrest fire.. Thier caloused projection wasn't as extreme ,but was close to making a joke about a news story containing injuries to children in a traffic accident . Which a radio anouncer once did to keep his schocking contriversal reputation pulling in high ratings . As far as movies and TV giving certain expected roles to men and women like the man is the doctor and the woman the nurse . And the man is the bigshot stock broker and the women are the secretaries and girlfriends , I understand that as belittling and insultive toward womens roles in the real word . Yet it' sells the best ?. And I've seen the hell you referr to , as a young women I know well , who has worked extremely hard and long on her talents as a guitarist who plays the Blues well , writes and sings other types of music and can churn out amazing lead guitar licks as well or better than some world famous guitarist who are men ,yet she gets replies from people as , your a good guitar player for a girl . And many times when I've heard this I've asked the person , " how do you rate her playing abilities if she were an adult man ". They say , she amazing . Than I ask , "why did you make that comment that ,she's good for a girl ". They reply,' because they wouldn't expect a girl or women could accomplish such goals ". She was only 12 years old at the time of her ability to shock an audiance with her professional quality guitar playing, that left people watching her play with their mouths open wide enough , they could have been used for fly traps .( She's played open mike nights and street performed ) Yet no club owner would hire her cause she was a girl ( young women ) . The role expected from her to be accepted as a female performer would be a model looking body , shaking around in some tight revealing clothing , ( talent optional ). She's older now and still has an upsteam swim to get the reconition she has earned and deserves .Although she's starting to find work . Real life roles have woman as doctors and men as nurses . Besides women as electrical engineers , attorneys, politictions. and vise versa . TV and movies are to me , extented TV commercials designed to subliminally sell America a life-style that affects our choice of consumer products . Cars ,cloths, hair styles , cosmedics and behavior . I feel like a cast out when watching TV or movies , like I don't fit in to the expected nomal-ness that was design by the movie makers as a pattern of how I'm expected to act and live . But millions of people have been caught in the trap and I imagine I myself have also, to a degree .But being human we do posses a spiritual nature that permits us to rise out of our physical beings to a gender-less consciousness if we will and choose to do so . In your refference to white male power of elite. Having lived in a non white dominant culture outside the U.S. , male dominace is not limited to white males. Even a monestary of buddist monks , is limited to males only. And the term buddist referrs to enlightened ones . Having a submissive nature toward the awaking of my spirit and not believing that anyone has power over me , a male dominated oppressive government has little bearings on my freedoms. I however do struggle in the attempts for freedom from the mental slavery which I feel bounded by, at the doings of myself. And attempts by someone as yourself to help me or others break these mental chains are greatly helpful and appreciated. As to the sexest nature of the material world , even the most intellectual scientist in the world referr to the creation of the Universe as , The Big Bang. I just couldn't resist some of my warpped sense of humor. As my beliefs in reincarnation as a process to purify the soul I believe I lived life as male and female in the past. And although we might not be able to change the barbarian nature of the material world , I believe we can change ourselves as to not have to go through another vicious cycle of this materail life .

-- SM Steve (Unreal@home.com), August 04, 2002.

Steve, I dont have the time right now to respond to your once again thoughtful post.....but I must mention that you blew me away with your mention of the blue-slingin' girl you know. My daughter is a blues guitarist also!! I am quite certain she will be successful because she has the fire in her belly, but can relate to all you said about the battles with the old fart blues community. She just recorded a demo and her sister is busy working on the website which should be up shortly.....I'll send you the link.....I'm going to email you directly.......perhaps they can mentor each other!

Peace,

-- earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), August 05, 2002.