SAL mail trains : LUSENET : ACL and SAL Railroads Historical Society : One Thread

I remember seeing Nos. 3 and 4 coming thru Raleigh in the late 1960s with many baggage and express cars and one heavyweight rider coach. I think that these trains ran between Richmond and Hamlet. Did SAL run solid head end car trains like these beyond Hamlet to Miami and Atlanta?

-- Richard T. Lasater (, May 30, 2002


I photographed #108 in the passing siding south of Ft. Lauderdale about 1965. The three car train was powered by an SDP-35. Passenger accomodations were in a combine. After the merger in 1967, I saw #107 at the Ft. Lauderdale station. The train on that day consisted of all L&N heavyweights, including the coach, powered by a relettered SAL E-7. Can anyone explain that? In the mid 60's these trains connected at Wildwood with 7 and 8 with 20 minutes between trains.

-- Rick Morrison (, July 18, 2002.

Yes indeed SAL operated solid mail trains. From mid-April until mid-December, the Tidewater's equipment normally moved on No. 7 Hamlet to Jacksonville and on No. 22 Jacksonville to Raleigh. But between mid-December and mid-April, there was a Tidewater which originated in Jacksonville as No. 16. In the public timetables, there were four passenger schedules Hamlet-Jax (Nos. 7-9-21-57), but five passenger schedules Jax-Hamlet (Nos. 8-10-16-22-58). Possibly to avoid deadheading a crew every day to staff the odd train north, SAL had provisions (in the employee timetable only) for No. 15. No. 15's symbol from Savannah on December 17, 1964 (Extra 1109 South) had REX 6402-PRR 9365-PRR 9674-SAL 283 -- all storage mail for Jax and SAL 1235 (for crew and deadheads). Note that No. 16 out of Jax became effective with Time Table No.6 on December 18,1964 and SAL had to operate No. 15 as an extra because the there was no schedule for No. 15 in Time Tale No. 5 still in effect on the 17th. In addition, prior to Christmas, SAL would operate extras originating at West Jax for Railway Express traffic -- oranges, grapefruit, etc. Florida fruit for Christmas, you know.

-- Harry Bundy (, June 03, 2002.

I guess I am not with it.I answered this post under SCL,so look there.

-- Joseph Oates (, June 01, 2002.

I rode the "mail train" a few times between WPB and Delray Beach in the mid 60's. I seem to recall that this train ran between Wildwood and Miami. I think the schedule board at WPB indicated this (poor memory however). I have always wondered why it would have a wildwood origin, especially if it was a split from a larger train. Anyway, the passenger accomodation was a heavyweight combine at the end of the train.

-- Jim Coviello (, May 31, 2002.

Is it possible that 107 ran as a separte section from 7. Since the departure time from Wildwood is over an hour after number 7 has departed for Tampa. Can anyone confirm this? I rode that train many, many times between Tampa and Savannah, and never remember it being split.

-- Carey Stevens (, May 31, 2002.

I have pictures taken in the early sixties of train 107 at Auburndale.

-- Joseph Oates (, May 31, 2002.

Carey-I can only repeat what is shown in the April 24, 1960 passenger folder. The listing for the Sunland shows baggage service between Washington-Tampa-Miami and a "Passenger and Baggage Car" between Wildwood-Miami. There is no schedule shown however. The December 17, 1960 timetable show the connection leaving Wildwood at 12:20 pm and arriving in Miami at 6:55 pm. The connection was numbered #107. There was no northbound connection shown. The April 25, 1965 schedule shows the Wildwood-Miami connection leaving Wildwood at 12:30 pm and arriving in Miami at 8:40 pm.

-- Michael W. Savchak (, May 31, 2002.

I know for sure that the Sundland #7 & #8, was not split at Wildwood in the late 50's and early 60's. The daily Heavyweight consist (with the exception of Holiday mail) between Tampa and Jacksonville was a full baggage, RPO, Psgr/baggage combine, and coach. This consist would change at Jacksonville with many express cars being added NB or removed SB. The Palmland was the true mail/express train between Tampa and Jacksonville and would carry many HW baggage cars depending on the volume of daily mail collected and being sent North.

-- Carey Stevens (, May 31, 2002.

Seaboard had several trains which it considered to be "Passenger, Mail and Express. During 1960, # 3&4 operated between Washington and Atlanta SB and between Atlanta and Richmond NB. In addition to headend cars, they carried a through passenger/baggage car, and a full coach between Washington-Hamlet SB and Hamlet-Richmond NB. Another Passenger, Mail and Express run was # 5 and 6-8 which operated between Washington-Birmingham. A third train was # 36-37 which ran between Jacksonville and Flomaton. The timetable showed a connection between Flomaton and New Orleans, but that was the Gulf Wind.

In addition to the above trains, the named train "Sunland" #33-7 and 8 served as a passenger, mail and express train between Washington- Jacksonville-Tampa-Miami. The train ran through to Tampa and there was a connection at Wildwood where baggage and express cars ran to Miami. The equipment listing shows a connecting passenger-baggage car, yet the schedule doesnt show the connection, which was numbered 107-108. The named train "Palmland" #9 and 10 served as through mail and express trains between New York and Miami/Tampa.

-- Michael W. Savchak (, May 31, 2002.

Not only did the SAL run trains like these, they ran these trains, at least to Atlanta. According to the December 1959 Official Guide, SAL trains 3 and 4 ran into Atlanta.

Bob Hanson

-- Robert H. Hanson (, May 30, 2002.

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