No man is an Island....sure...

I am not happy at either the new site, or on lusenet.

Here, as we have seen, anyone can disrupt a forum. Someone even sterted the country families explanations board, posing as me.

On the new site, many will refuse to go. I remember Earthmama saying something like "you all will like Chuck", and I haven't seen her since.

I have not yet been admited on BTS, I'm sure she is there. I miss the opportunity for her to share her vast knowledge with me.

Same with Dave "Multiplier"- (is that you Dave at the new site sporting the back-pack. And Stan has lots to share.

I have been cautioned on this forum, as to the content of a post, and I did not feel it was out of line.

I think I need to go plant some tomato plants.

Peace to all.

-- Rick in Southwest WV (Rick_122@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002

Answers

Hi Rick so sorry to hear you are feeling lost. You are always welcome over on Singletree and NO, you do not have to be single to visit us. I travel the forums as I always have including BTS. I can't say anyone is better than the other. I personally am partial to Singletree because that is where I am most comfortable. Granted we are fairly young but we have managed to remain open minded and fairly "troll free". Pay us a visit and don't worry if your not single, all are welcome there.

-- Susan in MN (nanaboo@paulbunyan.net), May 17, 2002.

Thanks for the invitation Susan

I have visited (ya-lurked ), and posted a couple of times, at the tree.

I guess I'm looking for an answer that just is not there.

-- Rick In Southwest WV (Rick_122@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

Hey Rick, don't worry about it. I'm betting things will settle down in time. I find it hard to believe that you were cautioned about the content of a post here, since "Caretaker" seemed to make it clear that wouldn't happen to anyone. Are you sure it actually came from here? I'm guessing all these disruptions will settle down. Most of the time I've visited these forums those things weren't happening.

Yup, that's me in the backpack pic, a few winters ago in the appalachian mts.

The new site is ok, but like someone else said, if I wanted to navigate through bunch of fancy stuff, I'd probably prefer backwoodshome.com. I'll probably continue to go there but I like Lusenet better.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

Earthmama posted here on Lusenet just a day or two ago.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

and... I wish Caretaker would delete all those spam postings on the main section of this forum. That's probably scaring people away.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

Yeah, those posts are distracting. And I don't care for the "capture link"..not good.

You know, I'm new around here, so I guess I saw all that transpired a bit differently. Not that I haven't gone through similar experiances...it has often led to great forums scattering to the cyber winds....it is sad to see, because I do think folks make bonds, friends, share hardships etc. And that can be very real. So, I'm not belittling peoples feelings, but..

...such a bruhaha! Much ado, and all that! Calm dooooooown everyone! Move on to something good. It isn't productive to beat a deadern dead horse.

I've found that on forums as well in life, the fecal matter hits the whirling oscilating cooling device, at times. I've learned a few things that help me. For instance, it's best to wait a few days if a post really upsets you, before you post to it. Benefit of the doubt, tones, nuance, and expression can't be expressed in this media, so, often times there are misunderstandings. Totally understandable. Diversity is good. If we were all the same the world would be a much bleaker place. Some people just don't like each other, that's ok. Take what you find valuable, leave the rest.... Ignore obvious ranting...it won't get anyone anywhere but mad, you can't change peoples minds, you can only share a point of view and if someone is that pissed off, I doubt seriusly they are hearing anything. I've learned to take things with a grain of salt and be more laid back!! It works for me. I WILL discuss a differing viewpoint, or speak out on a subject I may feel strongly about, but only in a respectful way.

As far as finding your nitch, good luck! Why not participate here(or where ever) and the new site, for awhile? Enjoy posts that are of interest, see what happens. I don't think there is any real reason to pick and choose based on some misplaced (JMHO) sense of loyalty.

Sorry, this sounds preachy.....I'm a mom. lol *BIG SMILE*

-- Patty (SycamoreHollow1@aol.com), May 17, 2002.

Dave, caretaker hasn't cautioned me, you ar correct. You are right, things will settle. The thing I like about the new forum is I can track all of the discussions I am involved in.

Thanks for the thoughts, Patty. It is very wise advice, that I really need to follow. I haven't been chasing many homesteading ideas, due to all of the side issues, and forums moving. I've been stuck in a circular argument with another poster, through private e-mail, that won't help me grow one thing in the garden.

Good day to all.

-- Rick in SW West Virginia (Rick_122@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

Dave, it was this posting of mine he was referring to. I had seen how he poked at stan on another forum and thought that that was the beginning of yet another bunch of the proverbial crap. It seems I have highly offended him, since he has e-mailed me from three different locations to tell me about it.

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Rick, Phil is offering it for $5.00, and that includes all the unpass- worded boards. I am sure that once everyone cools down, this will work itself out and those of us that have trouble accessing or just don't want to access the new board will stay here and learn to get along. That would be if people don't lurk around and try to undo the fence mending that is trying to take place here. Those who left need to just get over the fact that not everyone is happy and leave others alone. I have no beef with you Rick.............but please, just move on or stay and play nice. In the greater scheme of things, it just doesn't matter what any of us think about what happened or who we point the finger at. The mag dumped us, for whatever reason. Facts are facts and what is done is what is done. I don't know about you, but I came to this board to share my homesteading experience, strengths and hopes with other like minded people. I like small towns, and CS was sure getting to be big city. This is nice, lets just sit on the porch and chat a spell and get to know each other all over again. :>)

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), May 15, 2002.

I would like to publicly tell Rick, so sorry........if I had had even the lest little inkly of what buttons I would push, most certainly would have said nothing. It is this very kind of thing which has made me decide to no longer post on forums. Just way to many wackos that think they can e-mail you with their opinions of what you say or do. I will NOT be one of the "hidden" posters and spammers, although I have once and have been tempted more than once.

I say good bye to you all here, and to the many lurkers who think they are so clever. I had a very wonderful life as a homesteader before I came to the forums, and I will again.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), May 17, 2002.

well, I hate to see you leave on that account Diane. The emails that are sent to you, just delete them, don't even read them. I'd think if you stuck around, things will get better in time.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

When I first read Dianes post, I thought it wasn't poking fun, but being critical. I was gonna ask for an example, and then it hit me, hard. I was (for me) cruel. I was suggesting tragic childhood mental trauma, that could have caused Stan to dog Melissa the way he was.

I can't really say it was uncalled for, as I don't know parts of this story, that I've seen Jay, Dave, and others refer to, that make them willing to look past what Stan was doing to her forum.

I only recall the one occaision, and did not come here for that type of exchange. Now, a plate of understanding would be nice.

-- Rick in SW West Virginia (Rick_122@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

I am not going to defend myself, and instead will choose to plead: "whacko" as charged.

-- Rick in SW West Virginia (Rick_122@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

my only reason to look past whatever happened is the simple facts of there's no need to dwell on things, nothing will be solved, and it's better to just get on with things and try to keep it normal. I don't know the whole story either but I don't need to know it. Only Stan can solve whatever problem was going on. He never did anything to me personally so it's not really something I should be involved in.

I'd just let it go Rick and do what you can to bring normality back to this forum.

I hope Diane and anyone else affected by the disruptions will do the same.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

JUST A NOTE: Not all victims deserve to be victimized. I did NOTHING to "deserve" what happened. I am only guilty of being soft- hearted, and choosing to believe that most people are kind. However I guess I was wrong!! Oh, well. Life does indeed go on...

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), May 17, 2002.

I agree that the numerous posts are a bit distracting... thousands are EVEN worse...

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), May 17, 2002.

Of course you can just choose to ignore them!!!! That is what I should ahve probably done, instead of giving more power to Satan!!!

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), May 17, 2002.

Yup Melissa, you definitely didn't deserve the mess that was going on. Neither did all the users of that forum. If someone has a problem or complaint, there's much better ways to solve it than being destructive. I can't relate to it and won't even try to understand it.

Nothing can change what happened. Let's just hope for the best from now on. All these different forums will probably solve some of the problem. There's so many that nobody should feel like they can't voice their opinion. ; )

btw, I've noticed that Country Families is a very popular place on homesteadingtoday.com. That's something to be proud of.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), May 17, 2002.

Rick,

You are behind in planting those tomato plants! ! Didn't think it would be an early spring did you! Oh me. A non-believer.

I have little yellow flowers on MY tomatos today.

-- Granny Hen (cluckin along@cs.com), May 17, 2002.

Melissa, God made women STRONG with shoulders to bear the heaviest burdens. Nothing annoys me more than whining. Women can so easily slip into that "martyr" thing. Calling names is not the answer either, and I suspect you would not permit it on *your* forum. I don't think Satan is here, but if he is, *I* don't think he is leaving anytime soon, so why are you BAITING him? Is that a Christian thing to do? Maybe prayer would be better.

-- Granny Hen (cluckin along@cs.com), May 17, 2002.

So anyone can say anything they want about what happened but if I answer back in any way I am whining????

Believe me I have been praying lots, and Satan is what the poster called himself, it was not name-calling on my part, but since you have read and kept up with the Country Families forum I guess you would know that yourself....

I am plenty strong enough, but I also try to be nice and understanding as well. No reason the two can't go hand in hand...

Have a nice evening.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), May 17, 2002.

Melissa, you are fussin' and frettin', and wringing your hands, and you seem to be viewing all this in a negative light. There's another side. I don't believe things happen in a void. Our journey is not meant to be smooth, without challenges or obstacles in our path. We don't come here for vacation! Every experience along the journey has a purpose. Sometimes the purpose benefits our personal soul advancement, sometimes it is intended more for another. Sometimes we are the teacher, sometimes the student. Sometimes the ripples move out away from us and touch many.

All things come to good purpose. Even those we initially experience as "bad".

Often when we fret and can't let go of things, there is a little nagging of guilt causing our discomfort. Do you have any olive branches growing in your garden? WWJD?

-- Granny Hen (cluckin along@cs.com), May 17, 2002.

You're right... I will move on.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), May 18, 2002.

I have pretty much kept completely away from all the discussions on the subject of trolls, but after reading Melissa's posts, and hearing the pain in her words, I feel compelled to add my two cents.

Melissa, I'm quite certain that of all the hundreds of us affected by this drama, we would be hard pressed to find anyone who looks approvingly on what was done to our precious forums. It's sad, it stinks, it was unfair,and lots of people feel abused, in all sorts of ways and for many different reasons. We are very sorry for the way you apparently were especially singled out, I can tell by your protestations that you took it quite personally.

For your peace of mind, please try to remember that people do things for their own reasons; while its true we often unknowingly trigger something in them that sets them off, they are reacting from their own very personal wounds (often unknown to them as well), and we are not in any way responsible for how they react to us. Oh I realize you know this intellectually, but sometimes our feelings sabotoge our brains, eh? I find it good to continually remind myself that we are all, in our own peculiar ways and degrees, walking wounded; it helps me keep a tendency to judge others' behaviour under control.

Having said that, I must say I agree with Granny Hen's previous post. I too believe that everything happens just as it should, even the bad stuff, maybe especially the bad stuff. This is not in any way to trivialize what you endured, and in any case, I was not personally involved so cannot know what it was really like. Perhaps you and your forum members will be so much more happy on Chucks site than you were on LUSENET, thus making it all good in the end. I'm certain we all wish you only the best of luck over there, and much happiness in your life. Perhaps it will help to think of yourself not as a victim, but as a leader, who has led your forum family on to safer ground, and can find the peace I think your group savors.

Peace and blessings,

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), May 18, 2002.

hello ms. earthmomma!,

are you really not going to visit wwww.homesteadingtoday.com? :(

i'll miss your insight wise woman.

i rarely get the time to multiple forum jump, much less surf on my lunch hour...so i'm sticking w/ the new addy. seems to have a diverse collection of folks, & the delete key has been used only once that i've seen, when one poster threatened the life of another! *yikes* like i said all types are still posting & learning.

my name was used as well mr. rick, pretty annoying but i cleared up the confusion quick enough. enjoy your tomato planting!

-- bj pepper ,in central MS. (pepper.pepper@excite.com), May 19, 2002.

My Tomatoes are giving me dirty looks, with temps due in the 30s tonite.

-- Rick in SW West Virginia (Rick_122@hotmail.com), May 20, 2002.

I was just reading through this thread again, and once again felt the sadness in Rick's posts, and thought I'd add my two cents.

Rick, I don't remember ever reading anything remotely 'cruel' written by you; I see you as someone who has always been respectful and kind. If someone jumped on you for some imaginary offense, I'm sorry you had to endure that. You probably learned its best not to take the bait; folks who feel badly about themselves spend their lives pointing their angry fingers at others, it distracts them enough to avoid having to look inside, which is too painful. By the way, there are quite a few folks who would disagree vehemently with your and bj pepper's characterization of me as having 'vast knowledge' or 'insight"!

BJ Pepper, no, I'm sorry but I will not post on the new forum. I have visited certainly, am familiar enough with it to make my decision feel right. I have cable connection so the load time is no problem personally, although it is annoying that so many others are having trouble just cuz they dont have fancy equipment, and I also do not like the format....hard on the eyes, can hardly tell where one post ends and the next one begins. But those things are not the reasons. I find myself, as usual, in the apparently tiny minority of folks who don't find "The Stockbroker Who Stole Countryside Forum" :) to be a warm and fuzzy guy. I HAVE found this whole thing to be quite fascinating though; its amazing how some people have so much charisma, even when they never have physical contact with their "followers," doncha think? It's still difficult to believe that hundreds of people, within a matter of a few days, picked up their homesteads in a panic and moved them to a place unknown, because their new leader convinced them there was something to fear if they stayed. Sorta reminds me of a cult kinda thing! Pied pipers are always perceived as nice guys. I wish no one ill; we all gotta do what we gotta do.

There was disingenuousness there, that is not debatable, as I see it. The archives were never in any danger of vandalism; how could they be when dozens and dozens of folks already had copies of them? Phil was supplying them, and even Chuck himself had made it known they were also available from HIM? Yes, LUSENET went down frequently, and it was annoying, but couldnt that have been helped in a different way? Like annually copying the archives, selling them for a reasonable fee to folks on a yearly CD, and removing that year from the online content while letting the CD's availability be known to newcomers ? I am not a computer whiz by any means, but the point that was brought up about LUSENET not having gone down since the forum left is interesting. Maybe just a coincidence? Could be I s'pose.

The fact that the magazine didnt want to be connected with the forum anymore did not require a move from LUSENET. The exchange of the old forum for a new one could have easily been done here. As far as LUSENET possibly requiring a little cash in the future, many many folks thought that was perfectly fine with them, it probably wouldnt have amounted to much.

The more difficult issue to refute is the one about the sort of vandalism that occured just recently. It really is true that bizarre behaviour such as that will be avoided on the new forum. No one wants that to happen to anyone. But I guess I feel more comfortable with the free speech folks; let people blow off steam, make fools of themselves, posit ridiculous ideas, be smart-asses, cynics and curmudgeons. Helps us all to practice 'unconditional love.' :)

I remember one night when I had some friends over, we had a few glasses of wine, went online and I posted something incognito on Doreen's forum. It was nasty and stupid, not that it wasnt how I felt after reading some of the threads, but rudeness is not my style. Course I felt like an idiot the next day, was scared to go look what had happened. But I finally did, and Doreen, who most likely knows who its was cuz she can track me down (!) scolded me properly on her forum, all without mentioning my name, then shortly thereafter deleted what I had posted. I'll always be greatful for that.....it was very elegant of her, considering I had been very inelegant on her forum.

Point is, trolls happen; I suspect most of us have on occasion done something we aint so proud of online. Maybe its just best to gently scold folks when they act silly, then ignore them. Reacting to them in kind clearly doesnt work.

Enough blathering from me........

Peace,

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), May 21, 2002.

Wonder if anyone has considered what would have happened, if, on a given day, an announcement was made the "new" forum is now open for posting? Would every member have packed their bags and caught the next train? Pretty doubtful. Old habits, old comfort, old friends are hard to leave. Would a person of reasonable intellect have been able to reason this in advance and then use opportunity as presented, or even instigated, to herd those fleeing "disaster" onto the trains?

-- Granny Hen (cluckin along@cs.com), May 22, 2002.

WOW, a conspiracy, how fun!!!!

-- very funny (abc@xyz.com), May 22, 2002.