and will m6 numbers (if new ones are made) be interspersed? anybody know annual production targets??

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), May 11, 2002

Answers

find the serial number!

-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 12, 2002.

I believe the current Leica serial numbers for the M7 and m6 will be kept secret..typically they asign a block of numbers for one product; and another block of numbers for another product...Whether the entire group of numbers is used up will be secret..Leica has nothing to gain by releasing their production figures..

-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 12, 2002.

Leica Camera AG letter to shareholders feb 2002

-- Kelly Flanigan (zorki3c@netscape.net), May 12, 2002.

kelly -- thanks for the interesting info!! if anyone cares to report serial # sightings, their own #, etc., maybe we could figure out the approx range. thanks again. p.s. 27777676 is one that i saw.

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), May 12, 2002.

Roger,

Given that the ones I have seen in person (2), were 2,777,646 and 2,777,418, I suspect they started with 2,777,000. While certainly not confirming that start number, the photo on the LHSA VF magazine which was no doubt obtained from Leica, shows one with the numbers ending with x,xx7,042. I think the one they showed on their web site was even lower, but in the 2,777,xxx range.

I suspect that in somewhat of an honor to the bodys designation of M7, they alloted the first serial block of 2,777,xxx. How large that block is is anybodys guess, but I would suspect it is at least 5,000 to 10,000. That has been the pattern with past M intros.

How much the may have lept ahead in serial block allocations is anybodys guess to, but a few weeks back there was an M6TTL FS on this forum with a serial of 2,725,xxx so probably it wasn't that great a push to jump to 2,777,000 for the M7.

We'll know for sure in a decade or 2 when they post them. Not too long in "Leica" time.

On the other hand, you may e-mail your question to Stefan Daniel, M Product Manager in Solms. He might just answer you.

Best,

Jerry

-- Jerry Pfile (Jerry Pfile@MSN.com), May 12, 2002.

Gentlemen. While it is logical to think that Leica would start a new model at an even serial number and at a batch of 5,000-10,000 units (the M3 started at SN 700000 and the first batch was indeed 10,000 cameras), this is not necessarily so. For example, the M6 officially started at SN 1657251 (dated to and was made in a batch of only 2,000 units.

Thus, it is possible that the M7 started at SN 2777000 but it is also possible that the earliest SN was somewhat higher, though still in the range of 2777xxx. The really early SN (042) could represent a "null" or pre-series camera issued for testing. There are preseries cameras known for several M models, including the M5.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 12, 2002.

should say 'dated to 1984' (I believe 7/30/84).

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 12, 2002.

Eliot,

The "null" or "pre-series" M7s began to be passed out in late 2000 to several photographers for field trials.

However, these came with top covers from the M6 TTL, with the only observable external differences being the on-off switch, a shutter dial that included an "AUTO" setting, and a hot shoe engraving "LEICA M6 A" on one side of the flat and a "null" series type serial on the other flat. As an example Brian Bowers was given serial 0000015 for field testing as photographed in the LHSA VF issue Volume 35 Number 1.

Obviously the existence of the camera was known to Herr Cohn at the time of his interview at Photokina 2000 where he indicated "There will be no M7". At that time I suspect it was to be introduced as the M6 A, and so marked in the pre-production models which would have made his statement correct.

However, the amount of departure the M7 represented, the force of the marketing department, and the difficulty of producing an M6 A without continuing to produce the M6 TTL, all probably contributed to the M7 badge.

I'll look to see if I saved the url that Leica had to introduce the M7 on the web, but I'm almost certain it showed a serial in the first ten from the 2,777,000 block.

Best,

Jerry

-- Jerry Pfile (Jerry Pfile@MSN.com), May 12, 2002.

Eliot,

Try this url for the Leica M7 brochure.

http://www.leica-camera.com/imperia/md/content/pdf/msystem/37.pdf

Shows chrome M7 serial 2,777,005 and black M7 serial 2,777,002.

Takes awhile to load this pdf file. Doubt if anyone finds serials for M7s below 2,777,000.

Best,

Jerry

-- Jerry Pfile (Jerry Pfile@MSN.com), May 12, 2002.

Jerry,

You make a good case. If Leica started the M7 at SN 2777000, then they have probably issued over 2,000 units by now. I got mine in early March and its SN is 2779061. I'm a little disappointed, was hoping to have a really early SN.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 13, 2002.

These numbers circle around the M6TTL-production from 1998/ 1999 as far as I know ... Showing actually how long the trial- and preproduction phase of this camera lasted.

Hopefully these circumstances turn out to be of benefit for the early customes getting a bugfree product in the end.

Best regards

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), May 13, 2002.

FWIW, I bought a new M6TTL in February this year and the serial number is 2735xxx. I had to wait for the importer to get a new lot from Germany, so it was not an old one sitting on a shelf. But could of course have been made last year or the one before.

-- Ilkka (ikuu65@hotmail.com), May 13, 2002.