I have been getting the Countryside magazine for almost a year now. I have been reading like a fool to try to absorb everything I can. This year though, I'd really like to expand my garden. I only have 1 acre of ground to work with (including house, woodshed, and storage shed) which doesn't leave much room. Also the ground we do have is on a hill and COVERED with crown vetch. First, how in the world do you kill the crown vetch? We have tried almost everything and nothing is working, actually it is getting worse. (I hate the stuff) Second, Does anyone have any information on getting non-hybrid seeds? A friend of mine, has given me everything she has like that. She's great, more than willing to help out. We trade alot! Third, Does anyone have any ideas on how to make the most of my LITTLE space? I really want to make the most of my land, but am having a problem convincing my husband to convert! I need ideas that I could do myself for right now until I finish converting him over. Thank you in advance for any help you could give me. Michelle Leister

-- Michelle Leister (grimis@tricountyi.net), May 09, 2002

Answers

Try these sites until you can find someone locally to share with! http://www.seedsavers.org/

http://store.yahoo.com/seedsofchange/

http://www.heirloomseeds.com/

http://www.halcyon.com/tmend/heirloom.htm

Happy Gardening!

-- Robbie in So. CA (rraley@sbcg.obal.net), May 09, 2002.

Apparently crown vetch spreads by the root and not by seed. Found these control measures: Mechanical- Mow, cut back, dig, pull, dead- head, cut down, girdle, controlled burns

Chemical- Paint foliage or freshly cut stem/stump with glyphosate, "hack & squirt”

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), May 09, 2002.

BC covered it pretty well, the only suggestion I have is where I always start, at my local County Extension Service. Here they stay up to date on the newest methods and they may have something for you on getting rid of that stuff. Good luck. LQ

-- Little Quacker in OR (carouselxing@juno.com), May 09, 2002.

The previous owners probably planted the crownvetch because the hill erodes. The Re-Tiring guy suggests a retaining wall made of tires to stop erosion AND you can plant your garden in it if your hill is steep. I have Zoysia grass and it choked out all my creeping phlox and other flowers. I empathize with you. I also have creeping charlie that is choking everything out. Try your extension agent!! Good luck in your battle...

-- Gailann Schrader (gtschrader@aol.com), May 09, 2002.

I'm sure the re-tiring guy would suggest that - their biggest problem is getting rid of used tyres. They'd L..O..V..E someone to take on a mountain of them, and assume the responsibility for them. Have you ever seen a BIG pile of tyres burn? That could be your land - burning and pouring out toxic smoke for days. And the EPA would hold you responsible for it. In fact, if they found out they might even classify it an an illegal toxic-waste dump. I HAVE seen a few tyres justifiably used here and there as retaining walls, but even there you risk breeding mosquitos in them, or spiders, or providing shelter for venomous snakes.

As to killing something which hasn't evolved to grow sod - just keep cutting it. Treat it as a resource. Slash it down, build enormous compost heaps where you'd like to have raised beds, and just keep cutting it. After a while (a year or two) you will have most of it dead from exhastion, and you'll have some marvellous vegetable beds. You don't NEED to farm all your acre - an intensive vegetable garden can produce a lot more than even a big family can eat for a lot of the year; and that way you can find out if you want to do more of this.

And you could get a couple of goats (say a pregnant doe) - provided you put in the fences to hold them. The crown vetch will be good browse for them, but do appreciate that it will run out sooner or later.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), May 09, 2002.

Michelle,

I too have less land than I would like (1-1/4 acre), but we have the house w/attached garage, a storage/workshop building, a barn (3 horses, 2 pygmy goats) with paddocks, both a large and a small garden (which produce enough to feed the 4 of us [8 when we have dso's children] all the veggies we can eat in a year, with extra for neighbors & friends), and are putting in a poultry area (coop & pen for 10 geese, 30 chickens) this year. I would like to add fruit trees next year. Believe it or not we still have quite a large lawn area (too much) and several flower beds along with a strawberry patch. Our land however is only on a slight hill and we do not have the crown vetch problem - good thing, the creeping charlie and thistles are bad enough. I am constantly amazed at how much we can fit in our little space, though dso & I spend quite a bit of time planning, revising, etc.. to make the most of what we do have. We are trying to become more self sufficient each year, and it can be done without a lot of land. Good luck!

P.S.We hope to get a larger property sometime in the future.

-- Debbie in IL (debbie@fli-soft.com), May 09, 2002.

Try some raised beds in small spaces too. You will be surprised at what all you can grow in small raised beds and in pots!!!

-- Suzy in Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), May 09, 2002.

I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the book "Square Foot Gardening". Excellent concept of how to get the most out of every square foot of your garden, including growing vertically. Can't remember the author off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are other posters that know. Anyone?

-- Bernie from Northern Ontario (bernadette_kerr@hotmail.com), May 09, 2002.

Mel Bartholomew is the author of "Square Foot Gardening". i hope I spelled his name right. I would suggest terracing your hillside, also. As for the vetch, visit your furniture and appliance stores for cardboard boxes. put the cardboard down, build a frame, fill the frame with dirt/compost, and plant. you might want to remove the top 3 or 4 inches and bury your frame that deep. Compost what you take off the top to kill the vetch in it and use it on the next bed.

I will have one acre to homestead. After very much research, and a lot of help, I figure my one acre will pay for itself and support me as well. Start small projects. If they work out, enlarge them. If not, try something else. Everything on my place must at least do double duty. The fruit trees must bear fruit as well as shade or decoration, the donkey to protect the goats (meat, milk, brush control) and pull a cart for fire wood, straw, and water, rabbits for meat and manure. Work smart a little at a time and you will figure your own way to make it work. Good Luck

-- Robin Downing in East Texas (Southpawrobin1@aol.com), May 10, 2002.

I "only" have an acre and a half. My orchard of fruit trees is in the front yard in an arc just beyond the reach of the tether of my dog. This keeps the deer (and human predators) away and provides him some extra shady spots.

I'd also recommend some raised garden beds with hoops (I use pvc pipe) that can be covered with plastic. This extends your growing season in the spring and fall significantly.

Also, as a newbie beekeeper, I'd recommend keeping at least one hive (That's what I have at the moment). At a minimum, the improved pollination (translate that to mean yields) for your fruits and vegetables justifies it plus you get more than enough honey (I think of it as a bonus) to take care of your family's sweet tooth.

We have thought about chickens but for now we just buy/trade with a couple down the road.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike

-- Mike (mhammer@ix.netcom.com), May 10, 2002.

Don,

Tires actually work great as a retaining wall. There was a study done in both Northern California along the a freeway using tires as retaining walls as well as one done in Australia. Both were successful. They also hold in moisture which cuts down on my watering. What I have done is planted fire retardent plants (Southern Wormwood) in the tires which cover the tires entirely. And I do live in a Fire Hazard area.

Michelle,

If you are looking for non-hydrid seeds, you might post a seed trade, but if you plant hot peppers and bell peppers in the same year, then save the seeds from the bell pepper, you will find the following season your bell peppers are hot and not sweet! they have become hybrid! the bees pollinated both plants and cross pollinated them. The same with tomatos. If you plant Romas and Early Girls and Cherry Tomatos the bees will be buzzzy going from flower to flower and cross pollinating and wella! hybrids the following year! So you want to be sure to net a few of the flowers before they open so that nothing pollinates them!!! then when they open you take a brush and gently brush the pollin from the netted flowers, from one to another. Be sure to net them again until the fruit forms. Before removing the net, which can be done as soon as fruit forms, be ture you tie a ribbon or string around the branch so you won't forget which fruit you are saving for planting the following year. This way the seeds stay true and not hybrid.

For getting more out of your garden, think *UP*! you can grow all of the vining plants like melons or squash up on trellis's. Be sure to support the heavier fruits with by cradeling them in something such as old pantyhose, netting, or anything that allows room for growth and air to ciruculate but is able to support the weight of the fruit.

If you can get ahold of goats they will quickly eat down anything in their paths! as well as creating nice paths up the hillside and down again. Once the goats have pathed the hillside it makes it easy to walk up and down as well as plant on the hills. Be prepared though to loose alot of dirt and be ready to clear the bank (not a saving and loan bank but the bank created when the dirt falls down at the base of the hill! for those flat landers )

wes - So.Ca.

-- westbrook (westbrook_farms@yahoo.com), May 10, 2002.

At the risk of repeating myself: an amazing amount of vegetables CAN be grown in a smaller space than yours. One of my favorite inspirations is the following website which chronicles an amazing amount of food produced in one average suburban sized (1/5 acre) plot:

http://www.pathtofreedom.com/facts&stats_ie.htm

There are great links to sustainable agriculture and permaculture sites on that site as well.

-- Ann Markson in s. mid TN (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), May 10, 2002.

Thanks everyone for all your info. It has been a great help. I talked to my husband and we decided to do some bucket gardening for right now, and work on terracing off our banks.( they are pretty steep) and I'm going to work VERY hard this summer to get rid of that crown vetch. It really needs to go!!! Some of you suggested goats. We have 2 and believe it or not, they didn't even care for it! Go figure! Oh well. I have been thinking of all kinds of ways to make the most of our land, and you all gave me hope. I was beginning to think it was hopeless. Thanks a million!!! Michelle

-- Michelle Leister (grimis@tricountyi.net), May 10, 2002.

Michelle, I have rabbits and I have found that they love vetch. I place them in their cages on the ground where I want them to graze. That keeps them from digging out and I can move them much easier. Just be sure not to leave them out in the sun without shade, I just lost one to overheating. I was in the house all day and didn't realize just how hot it was outside. annette

-- annette (j_a_henry@yahoo.com), May 12, 2002.