What's with this? Almost everybody rents at some time in their life. I rented once. I was a good renter. There must be more good ones out there.

How hard was that rental agreement? Pay the utilities promptly. Pay the rent. Mow the yard. No trash. No inside pets.

Didn't charge a deposit. Let them keep the electric in my name. Waited three months on the first two months rent because they had a paperwork problem with HUD. No sewer to pay (septic system). No water bill (wonderful well). No heat bill (gave them the free gas from the gas well at no charge). Can we have a dog, chickens, pigs, and some goats? Sure, and you can use the outbuildings for them.

I hand delivered the eviction notice today. They didn't pay the electric - (none of it). They didn't pay the rent. They've got them a big rotweiller in the house. Never did mow (looks like a hayfield). Trash scattered everywhere. Can't imagine what they did to the inside. We'll know soon enough.

We get to go in there and clean it up again. Got that electric bill to pay, too.

The kids say, "Why do you let people do this to you." We told them, "We don't LET people do this to us. We were trying to help them and work with them.

We have a joke here. "No good deed goes unpunished."

So, where are you good renters? Southeastern Ohio (Monroe County). Nice little house in the country. HUD approved. $450 a month. Cause, as soon as we get those folks out of there (assuming they don't torch it or worse), we're going to clean it up and try again. --But, it's getting old.

-- homestead2 (homestead@localnetplus.com), May 08, 2002

Answers

Speaking from experience.... you MUST charge a deposit and have the monthly rent high enough to weed out the riff raff.

Helping people out doesn't pay bills. If you want good renters, they will be folks that don't need help.

Sorry if that sounds cynical, but ... been there, done that with the bad ones.

-- Rose (open_rose@hotmail.com), May 08, 2002.

Wow! that sucks. There are still good renters out there my DH and I are two of them. We take care of our house just like it is ours... well because in a way it is. This house may not have my name on it but it is my home, and my childrens home. I am sorry you have had suck bad luck. Just don't give up and become a mean landloard ( I have had two many of them and I didn't deserve them.) You'll get good renters. Good luck!! Jennifer

-- Jennifer (jfisher4midsouth@rr.com), May 08, 2002.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience----made worse by the fact that you were trying to help these folks. There are good renters out there, but the problem does seem to be finding them. Obviously a lot of people will give you a song-and-dance at the beginning and not let on that they live a lifestyle that would get them kicked out of the Hell's Angels. A lot of landlords here in Western Washington now ask for references and/or a credit check. Both seem like good ideas---I don't think people who leave a trail of experiences like this in their wake will have good references, and a credit check would give you an idea, at least, of how seriously people were about at least TRYING to pay bills. That's my 2 cents' worth. I hope you have better luck the next time.

-- Jeff (lorianandjeff@aol.com), May 08, 2002.

Most landlords I know won't do Section 8 (HUD) because of the difficulty of getting rid of bad renters. I would also not allow pets if I were you--one bite and YOU will be the one in court losing your property, not the renters (because, of course, they are judgement proof), and imho, if you can't afford a mortgage, you can't afford to own a pet, or have cable, etc., etc.

I agree, require a deposit, up front, make them put the electric in their name (nothing like being responsible for a bill to make someone conserve energy--you don't want open windows in the dead of winter with the heat on), require they pay for trash pickup (unless your area requires that you pick up the cost (and of course that needs to be made part of the rent). And always, always do a credit check.

Better no tenant than a bad tenant, my landlord friends always say.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), May 08, 2002.

I am so sorry for what you have gone through. My mom is the manager for 58 apts. She dosn't own them. Anyway she charges a deposit!! She said this is important because of the way people leave things and it costs to have somone go in and fix what they have mistreated. Anyway you have a credit check run on them and make sure there rent is no more than 1/3 of what they make!!! She says listen to hard luck stories but do Not Change Your Own Rurals!!!! Everyone has a hard luck story that is how she (my mom) started managing the apt. My dad had a heart atack, then had to have 1/2 of a lung removed so she ask if she could try her hand at being manager since they had not had one in about a year she did this for rent and utilitys. She has done so well she has been at it now for 20 years!! and makes a good living at it. She says some people will call you a B!! but it is only the ones that don't want to pay there bills and there are words for them she won't use LOL. She also gives everyone 25.oo off the rent if payed 3 days early. She said you won't believe how many people get it there so save those $$ Good Luck next time but make sure you get ref. from them and check out at least the last 5 years!!! Good Luck on your next renters. Also if somone skips out on you call the utility comp. tell them your last renters have a deposit coming back to them but they did not leave a forwarding address and if they had hooked up utilitys again so you know where to send the deposit money. She said they are not supost to tell you but since it was your house the utilitys were hooked up last they always give you there next address because everyone would like deposit money back LOL even if you are looking for them to pay you instead. She said this is a dirty trick but it works and the dirtier trick was them skiping out.

-- Teresa (c3ranch@socket.net), May 08, 2002.

Ask for a reference from prior landlord(s).

-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), May 08, 2002.

yup, I agree with everything Rose said. It's not worth taking a chance otherwise, unless you really know the people and they're worth the favor. At $450 a month I'd ask for 3 times that to move in. First, last and deposit. I'd also show up a month later to make sure they're sticking to the agreements. Did you check their references and credit? Some people can trash a house to near worthless within months. In a way you are letting people do that to you by being so generous in a situation where you really shouldn't be. Helping people is nice but not when they make their problems your problem. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), May 08, 2002.

There are good renters out there. I am one also. We have lived here for going on 12 years. My husband, me, & soon to be 6 kids. This is my home & is treated the same as if we owned it. No deposit was made, no lease even signed, but we worked our butts off fixing the place up. The renters before us trashed it. We pay $50.00 a month & you would think anyone would be more than willing to take care of the place for rent that cheap. Not a lot of people. We have a variety of animals outside & get along wonderfully with the landlord. All they want is someone to care for the place & they come out a few times a year & spend the day. They live the next state over. I am amazed at how a lot of people live. My dad always said a person may be poor, but it doesn't cost much to keep your place & yourself clean. Trash laying around looks so bad. What is it with some people?? Good luck finding a good renter. I would ask for references. Too many people will lie to your face now-a-days.

-- Wendy (weiskids@yahoo.com), May 08, 2002.

I'm a landlord, and screening is very important. I use a company called SafeRent, and do a credit check and a background check on every applicant. People are creatures of habit -- if an applicant has been paying their bills on time and has credit that reflects that, chances are that they will pay rent on time as well.

Definitely charge a deposit. Make it a different amount than the monthly rent so they don't think that they can use the deposit for the last month's rent.

I have a clause in my lease that is helpful -- if the rent is late ONCE, the amount of rent per month goes up $50 for the rest of the lease! If the rent is late twice, it goes up another $50. Needless to say, this encourages people to pay on time :)

If you can, go visit the applicant's current residence. See how they take care of it -- they will likely take care of yours in the same manner.

-- Bethany (bethany@nospam.com), May 08, 2002.

Lots of good advice here. One thing I'll add based on my experience as a property owner is, when you're checking references, do NOT contact the owners from whom they're currently renting. Here's why. If the people are good, the current owners may try to keep them where they are by sweetening their deal or may try to move them into another property they own. Either way, you lose.

The reverse is also true. If the people are absolute nightmares to the current owner he may tell you anything just to get his problem out of his property and into yours. The bottom line is the current owner has far more incentive to lie to you than to be truthful.

Start one address back. That owner has no incentive at all one way or the other and will likely give you a good assessment of these people. Good luck to you. I hope this helps.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), May 08, 2002.

Another thing is depending upon the state, leases are not always the best way to go. Many landlords prefer month-to-month so they can give 20 days notice and end the tenancy when necessary (of course the tenant has the same option).

One trouble with leases is that if the tenant breaks the lease, the landlord does not automatically get the balance of the lease, they have to try to rerent the place (mitigate damages). And, it can be very difficult to get rid of a bad tenant on a lease, and you're locked into a certain amount of rent during the run of the lease.

There are good tenants out there, but with interest rates continuing as they are, more of them are getting their own houses now.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), May 09, 2002.

Back in the late sixty's and early seventy's we had a small house thet we tried to rent. In a year peroid we had one good renter, the daughter of a neighbor. Every one else trashed, refused to pay, had police there. They would not pay thier heat bills then complain to the county thet I didn't provide heat and or lights. And I found uot thet no matter whose name the utillies were in I still had to keep the bills paid or the next tenet couldn't get power turned on. One tenet even knocked holes in the walls and tore out the electric wires to sell the copper for booze and drugs. Try to get somebody put out and you got a minimume of three mounths mit out rent. Since the place was in a bad area of town we ended up getting rid of it by haveing the county come in and bulldoze it down. and since we could find no byer for the place gave it to the county for the tax's one year. Now here was a nice little place you could live in for then $50.00 a month, but because of all the head aches it became unavailable to all. I will NOT be a land lord ever again. And if you take somebody into your home to help them out get ready for even more trouble. The system is realy set to make being generous a crime.

-- Butch (beefarm@scrtc.com), May 09, 2002.

I fell into being a landlord in the 80s in Jackson Michigan when I left my house behind to go off to college. My first rental experience was a lot like yours - kept the utilities in my name to help out the tenant and after three months I had one month's rent, one bad check and all the back utilities to pay. The guy was down on his luck and I tried to help him out. Luckily the house was not trashed.

Since I never went back to Jackson I ended up renting the house for 14 years and had many wonderful tenants. Later I bought a house in Hillsdale and when I left there for Southern Ohio rented that house for a number of years before I sold it. Again, I had a lot of great tenants.

Here's my advice. Make the house nice enough that you yourself would live there, and keep it up. Charge rent lower than average for your area. Then, discriminate - by that I mean don't rent to the first folks who will take it. Be patient, let the house sit vacant if need be until you find someone you feel will work out.

Put together an application form and get detailed information from your prospective tenants. Rental references are somewhat useful, but job references are really important. You want to find out where the folks work, for how long and how much they make, where they have lived for three addresses back, how long in each place, why they left. Some folks may refuse to give you the info - forget them.

Besides ability to pay and residential stability, find out up front (on the written application) how many people will be living in the house, and what pets (we did not allow indoor pets). Our houses were rather small, and we looked for a comfortable fit. We had people apply to rent a two bedroom house who had eight kids!

Here are two things to pay attention to - they were good indicators for us of good tenants. First, look at the car your prospective renters drive up in. I find that folks keep their vehicles about like they keep their houses. Second, pay attention when you show the folks through the house. See if they notice details and are really looking at the house, are appreciating it, enthusiastic. If they take a quick tour and seem distant, don't ask questions, then say "We'll take it'" be careful.

Because we charged below market rent and had nice houses we always had a lot of people interested in renting. We would advertise with a notice in the paper and when people called would tell them we were showing the house on the weekend and set an appointment to show it to them. Allow at least half an hour per appointment. Some days we would show a house fifteen times. On the average half the folks would be interested enough to fill out an application. Let everyone know you are not renting the house on the spot, but taking applications to rent it. We took an application from everybody who wanted to fill one out, even if we had already decided not to rent to them. After the weekend of showings we'd sit down with the applications, cull the obvious undesirables and come up with three or four promising ones. Then we'd check references, maybe drive by the current residences of the best candidates, and offer a lease to our top choice. We never had a HUD applicant we wanted to rent to, though I am sure there must be some out there.

We never had to evict anybody after that first bad experience. Our deposit was one month's rent, and except for one other time always gave that back. Don't charge an unrefundable cleaning deposit - everybody resents that, and it is your job to get the place ready for the next folks. Instead ask the departing tenant to leave it they found it, and if you picked the right tenants in the first place they will.

We used a written lease agreement with pretty specific terms. Had it drawn up by a lawyer whose name was printed at the top. Renters pay attention to that. A loose agreement is no good for either party. Be specific, and have it all in writing. How long can the grass get? Can cars park on the lawn? How and when is rent to be paid? And so on.

The discount for early rent payment that somebody mentioned is a good idea - we did that.

We also sometimes got hard luck cases who wanted to rent from us, but avoided renting to them (after the first disaster)and chose people who had good rent qualifications. Besides adequate income, look for time spent at the last two or three addresses. If people have skipped around a lot, no matter what reasons they give, it's likely you won't have them for long either.

We ended up renting mostly to two-income fairly young couples, lots of them not married yet so they were not ready to buy a house. Many would stay a year or two and then buy their own house, which worked out for both of us. We also had success with some older couples. Did not rent much to single people - they never compared very well to couples in the stability factors we were looking for.

Good luck - there are a lot of good renters out there, but you need to be willing to invest some effort in finding them.

-- Scott McAlpine in Southern Ohio (scottmcalpine@juno.com), May 09, 2002.

I think it all goes back to so many people having no respect for someone else's property. There really are good renters out there it is just finding them. Good renters are hard to find because the landlords want to keep them and are good landlords in return!

You really do NEED a security deposit and a first and last month's rent. As a compromise in the future, if you really want to help someone who doesn't have much money to put down you might offer (in writing!) to let them pay a little additional toward the security deposit and last month's rent with the understanding that if they violate any portion of the rules (do dogs, lawn mowing, etc.) the full outstanding total becomes due and payable immediately.

Another thing works and motivate people to be good tenants is to offer one months free rent on the last rent of the year if they have been good tenants. It creates good will on all parties and, although you lose a month's rent, it is much less than you would loose if you have to pay the unpaid utility bills or repairs for the property being trashed.

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), May 09, 2002.

Sorry to say but I think you are being too nice. People usually just don't appreciate things that they are given to easily. When hubby and I were first married and trying to get on our feet we still had to pay a deposit, always paid our rent on time, mowed the grass and kept the place nice.

I'd follow the above advice and hopefully next time you'll get some nice responsible renters.

-- Anita in NC (anitaholton@mindspring.com), May 09, 2002.

That's too bad, unfortunately there really are some bad renters out there. We tried to rent our trailer out in Tx and had people trash it. We also tried a land contract and they never paid. My husband and I have always rented and we are good renters. Even though we rent it is still our home. Too bad we aren't closer to you that sounds perfect. We are in Monroe, MI just about 25 min. from Toledo. Good Luck with your next renters.

-- Tanya in MI (Prestons@aol.com), May 09, 2002.

We "managed" my brother's place for several years until he could move in. It was located within a stone's throw of our property so we were aware of it's outside condition at all times. We screened potential renters and asked for damage deposits. Of our experiences: the "Bikers" (had two different couples) kept the place the nicest, the veterinarian's sister let it go as too much work, and the "welfare" families left it trashed and with unpaid bills.(There is a legal problem in our area if you do not rent to families receiving assistance.) There were more experiences but 75% of them bad. We ended up closing the house and maintaining the property ourselves. It was less work and less expensive in the long run. We will NEVER own property to rent again!!!

-- Scotsirish (notreal@anywhere.net), May 09, 2002.

all righty done the renter thing, and have been a renter... one word of advice, has already been said make the security deposit not equal to a months rent.. or you will lose both , and , never ever accept"payments" on a sec. dep, if they cant come up with it up front, do you really think they will make it to rent??

looking inside a renters car, make it inobvious, walk them to thier car , look in the back and front seats, on the floor, does it look like a dumpster... think... if they drive in it they live likeit too... my best renter drove a terrible beater car.. but, she had a bag in the backseat for her kids toys (she had 3) and another for trash... the discount for early rent, can be as little as 10.00 make sure they know if you will allow gardens or plants, and to what extent.. i always let them have a garden , but if they didnt want one, then they had to seed that area, and not let it get weedy and wild..

allow them to do moderate upkeep.. painintg is ok.. but not painting the room black(had that asked once)

tell them they must must have renters ins. make sure you see the policy... this is cheap protection , for you and them less than $100 annually

make sure to tell the elctric company this is a rental property!!!, they will then pursue the tenant and not you! and the water, or whatever utilities...

i would persoanlly never rent with any utilities included, except nat gas.. else if they dont pay, your the one who has to pay to get frozen pipes repaired...

offer to come put up sstorm windows, or plastic. this will generally be seen as a welcome thing.. keep the plce up, dont let things get rundown , if you have ever rented you know what it can be like for a tenant to have trouble with broken stuff in and on the house

i guess thats my 2 bits

-- Beth in ND (famvan@drtel.net), May 09, 2002.

You guys, that is so depressing. I cannot imagine anyone being that careless with anyone else's (or their own) property. DH, our 3 kids and I have rented for years and never did that sort of thing. Sheesh. Its too bad you cant trust folks anymore... Scotsirish, have you considered a caretaker instead of a renter?

-- Najia (najia274@yahoo.com), May 09, 2002.

On the other side of the problem, I have been a rentor all my life, and many times I couldn't come up with two months rent and deposit - not for fiscal irresponsibility, but merely because I held entry- level jobs or lived in a depressed economy. Likewise, my cars always looked ugly and usually were dented - not because I was a careless person, but because it was not a high priority in my life to spend money on a car that could be better spent on, well, rent.

Many's the time we've had landlords bilk us out of deposits (can't recall actually ever getting a deposit back, despite the fact that hubby and I usually leave the place in better condition than we found it through repairs, landscaping, cleaning after we leave when the last tenants didn't - and neither did the landlord) to the point that we just quit expecting to collect it and began to quit worrying about any damages done - if it's obvious that the owner has no intention of returning our deposit, why bother worrying about fixing things the deposit is there to cover.

Our last landlady not only DIDN'T return our deposit (held it in exchange for a few late rents we had due to unexpected job loss - late rents that she was warned about in advance and verbally excused as perfectly fine ahead of time due to our solid payment history previously, at the time), but instead of paying us for copper tubing we had installed at our own expense to operate the furnace (which should have been her responsibilty in any case, as it was neccessary to provide heat and cooking fuel) she took it "in payment" for us having cats in the house, which condition she also okayed, again verbally, before we ever moved in! Did we clean the house before we left? Yes, as we hate to move into a messy place as much as the next guy and hate to leave a cleaning mess behind. But when our moving time got short and it bacame clear that we would have to leave some belongings and storage items behind, did we fret over the work it created for our landlord? Not a bit. We figured that the deposit and tubing (close to $100 just for that) more than paid for her troubles. This is not to mention that when we found the place, the land around it had been recently bulldozed to get rid of grown up vegetation and trash left behind by the previous tenents, and we totally relandscaped the "yard" (basically a half acre of compacted, tracked- up mud), including planting several specimen trees, a garden plot, flower beds and a small water garden, most of which were left behind to enhance her property value.

Not every poor rental applicant is bad, nor is everyone who is a good rentor capable of financially "proving" it ahead of time. We also never had rental references mainly because by the time we had moved from one place and found another, the previous landlord was unreachable due to death, land sales, or relocation. Several of the places that we could afford to rent (due to high rents and deposits) were condemned, struck by "insurance lightning", or otherwise destroyed or passed on to another party not long after we moved out. References would not have been available in any case, as often times we rented through an third party (such as a manager) and high turnover seems to be the rule rather than the exception in poorer housing area. Who knows where any of them were three weeks later?

I'm not saying that caution is a bad thing, just that an applicant can be poor, have a dumpy car, and no references and still be a reasonable, quiet and considerate rentor, at least until enough bad landlords burn them to make them into inconsiderate ones.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), May 09, 2002.

Depending upon where you live, water is the prop owner's responsibility, whether or not the bill is in the tenant's name--the cities especially are very lazy (and wrong, imho) about this and will put a lien on the property. So, even if water is in the tenant's name, call every month and check that it is paid, and make it part of the lease that non-payment of water also is grounds for eviction.

As to the condition of the car....well, I've never been a renter, but I would put far more faith in the credit report than in the condition of the car, especially if the car is paid for. Why? because to most landlords it is more important that the rent comes in on time--and no matter how clean a renter leaves a place, if they have been there any length of time you have to clean it up for the next renter--that's just part of landlording. Just because someone is perhaps a sloppy housekeeper (clutterwise, I'm not talking about roaches, etc.), doesn't mean they can't have excellent credit.

Do not let them paint, or do any improvements not even if they say they do construction. Chances are they will do it in a hurry and do a slipshod job, or worse, get hurt and then try to sue you saying that you "employed them".

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), May 09, 2002.

I'm afraid I have to go along with the car assessment. If someone has an older car, maybe with a few dents, and it's maybe a bit cluttered inside, then OK. Maybe they have other financial priorities. But if the back seat is filled with old food wrappers and other vermin attractants, they'll be looking for a different place to rent. If someone keeps their place a little cluttered, that's their business. They'll take it with them when they go. But if someone is willing to live with a stinky garbage pit in their car, I don't want them anywhere near my house. The stink and vermin will remain even after the renter moves out.

-- Laura Jensen (lrjensen@nwlink.com), May 09, 2002.

I would charge first months, last month, and a deposit equal to a months rent, plus make them sign a renters agreement. They would get either all or some of their deposit 30 days after last day of rental. Some of their deposit would help refurbish any repairs needed due to their neglegent.

The renters agreement would be a contract on what you expect out of them. No pets, no parties, pay own utilities, do own yard work, etc,etc. You may want to visit a lawyer to see what you can and can't demand in your contract. I've heard of scary stories of not being able to evict bad renters due to lack of proper contracts.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), May 09, 2002.

I am a great tenant and have always been one. I have always left my rentals in better shape then when I moved in, I have always paid my rent on time and I have always given notice before leaving.

I don't think that charging large deposits necessarily will get you a great tenant. It you will get one that has a bit of money for a while, but cash advances on credit cards and payday loans can also pay the deposit if someone doesn't have money.

I would first look into your local resources for background checks. Some may cost money and some may be free. Wisconsin has an public records rule so you can look up court cases via a website for free, but a good background search would be worth the money. I would also talk to the renters about their current situation...find out about the house, the neighborhood and why they want to move. I would later drive by their current place and see if it fits their description. Some drug dealers had moved into our old neighborhood so the houses around us looked a bit run down, but my yard was clean, the house was tidy and there was a wonderful garden. You could see the difference from the street.

Call their employer to confirm their employment status.

Use word of mouth. Tell people you respect about the available rental. Most people won't recommend who will trash a home. Around here most farmers rent through word of mouth or they don't rent the house. It does make it harder for outsiders like me to find a rural rental, but it protects the landlord.

I would love to rent your house, but am too far away. We are experiencing our own rental turmoil. Our elderly (90+) landlord has been ill and most of our interaction has been with her daughter. When we rented the house we were given the impression that her daughter would inherit the house and that it would stay a rental. We've worked hard on the house and in the yard. It took me a month of cleaning before the house was fit to move into and it took us two summers to haul out all the junk in the yard. Last year we finally could put in a big vegetable garden and build a small chicken coop (with permission). We were just planning this years garden, whe found out that her grandson is going to inherit and that when our landlady dies he will tell us to move out immediately. We have 2 dogs, 15 chickens and a small chicken house. Where could we move to "immediately"? I wish you luck with your quest and I hope you wish me luck as well.

-- Dash (forthechix@yahoo.com), May 09, 2002.

We are getting out of the landlord business ourselves. But, not due to poor tenants. We just want to trade up for more country property. Anyway, we have always had good renters, (maybe lucky?). We always take several applications, check out references - both job and prior landlords. Always fix immediately any problems with the property. We always get first months rent with a cleaning deposit of a somewhat lesser amount - and we are always happy to return the deposits. We kept the water bill in our name but made it part of the rental fee, renters were required to have the other utilities in their own names. My mother on the other hand had a very bad experience. She rented to an older married couple who after a few years had their grown children move in with them. The grown children were so bad the parents moved out. Since the grown children had children of their own and were on welfare it took my mom several months and many dollars to get them evicted from the house. When they finally were out we were appaled to find they had turned the family room into a sheep barn and the kitchen cabinets into rabbit hutches. Chickens in the oven. How they cooked food I don't know. The house was jumping with fleas. This was a house in the city, in a moderate income neighborhood. So, you just never know. Sometimes it's the luck of the draw.

-- cindy palmer (jandcpalmer@sierratel.com), May 10, 2002.

I fully understand your situation! My last renter put me into realestate "sales" rather than realestate "rentals".Research selling and financing home yourself.Much more upside than downside. God bless.

-- RBurton (rburton@ala.nu), May 13, 2002.