What can/should I do with this farm?

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I wish I could get someone to visit my farm and give me advise. I have toyed with organic gardening on and off over the years and am doing so again. I bought this 160 acre farm in northern MN and have bumbled into keeping laying hens, selling eggs to the local food co-op and have 9 suffolk ewes with 9 new lambs. It was all just done on a wim mostly but I wish I knew what I was doing better. The farmer who hayed my generous hay fields has become ill with cancer and can't hay for me any longer. I have to decide if I'm going to buy expensive haying equiptment and do it myself (I have a busy medical practice and my free time always seems too short) or find someone to hay for me. I'm told that it is very difficult to find someone to hay around here. I want to treat this land in a respectful manner and learn how to do that with organic approach and sustainable methods but I feel lost and overwhelmed.

-- Ryan Kelly (rkelly1@range.fairview.org), May 07, 2002

Answers

Hy im not familer with Northern Minn But is there a amish or mennotites in your area?? They seem to always be lookin for hay ground to cut!! Good luck!!

-- Grizz Wondering the outskirts of DC!! (southerneagle@yahoo.com), May 07, 2002.

Share cropping sounds like an answer for you, both hay and grain. I have no idea what kind of organic farmers are near you but if that's your goal seek it out. Rentable land is at a premium just about everywhere so choose very carefully. I'm not trying to put you off making your own hay, I thouroughly enjoy the task, you could cancel your health club membership!! :^) Grain growing is not overly profitable on any level, a simple equity of production tarriff would level the feild; but push up prices for basics so expect little action or change from the govt. I buy grain and grow hay for my sheep. I gotta say if it isn't enjoyable I probably won't do it for long profitable or not, some of the most efficent farms buy 100% of the feed they use. I suspect you could do some of the work yourself without the monetary reward (trust me an hour practicing medicine will out do farming on a cash basis every time)and still be better over all. Share cropping is an answer; but calculate your investment wisely, dirty hands are a lot more satisfying.

-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), May 07, 2002.

Might check with the Clune family to see if they would want to do some haying. lol.

Sorry, just couldn't resist.

-- Notforprint (Not@thekeyboard.com), May 07, 2002.


You have a busy full time job with little free time, you got into hens for business and sheep on a whim, and you are feeling lost and overwhelmed. Well, that's not surprising. This sounds to me like a hobby gone amuck. A serious hobby, and one you enjoy, and one that for later on in your life you may really go to town on, but right now it's too much for you. Cut back. Don't do any haying at all. For that number of sheep go out and buy the hay for them and have it delivered. Then go get a single tractor and an old haybine, and hire a high school kid to knock down the hay every year until you know what you want to do. It's not going to hurt the land, and you'll keep the brush down this way. You may even enjoy cutting the hay yourself. Getting out on a tractor for a few hours at a time in the early morning or late afternoon is very relaxing for me, you might be the same. You love it now, obviously from the way you talk about it. Don't try to do more than you have the time for or you'll end up hating it.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), May 07, 2002.

Have you considered the possibility of a sod farm operation?

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), May 07, 2002.


Guess farmers in your area don't make field calls anymore!

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), May 07, 2002.

Unfortunately there are very few farmers left in my area.I am in a very cold region (winter lows of -40 f are not un common). The ground is sand and clay and big rocks so farms are disappearing. I am not sure if I can find anyone who will share crop my hay but I'll try. I know I won't have the time to do it myself. where can I learn more about permaculture, intercropping and things that would help me here in the far north?

-- Ryan Kelly (rkelly1@range.fairview.org), May 07, 2002.

This probably isn't an option for you, but my first and foremost thought when I read your post was "this guy needs a much smaller place to manage". One-hundred and sixty acres is a HUGE amount of land to hobby farm, unless most of it is woods, and even then, there's some woodlot maintainence. Have you considered looking for a smaller set-up, perhaps one geared towards whatever direction you decide to go in? To me, it's far easier to have a good idea what farming/homesteading endeavors you want to pursue and then look for the "ideal" place to carry those plans out than to buy a big place and try to think of what to do with it.

The first thing I'd tackle is to decide what you REALLY enjoy and feel you want to put the energy, time, and $$ towards regarding country life and farming. What makes it all "worth it" to you. Do you enjoy producing eggs? Do you enjoy sheep farming? Is there something else that intrigues you?

You know, with all that hay land, have you thought of some type of rotational grazing operation? You still have to find a way to make hay and have adequate shelter for whatever animals you had in the winter. . .

Whatever you decide, I think the key to success is: Research, research, research! Did I mention research? This is especially true if considering getting into a new type of animal. Have you read any of Joel Salatin's books? They might prove to be an inspiration for you and help you decide what direction you want to go in.

Good luck, Renee M. (Michigan)

-- Renee Martin (icehorse@altelco.net), May 07, 2002.


The answer I have seen to the problem around here a few times is to find the right family [easier said than done!] build them a small house or pull in a mobile home you supply the capital and they supply the the labor and you split the profit between yourselves.It wouldn't necessarily be a full time job or them either.From what I've read on this board there are probably folks who'd jump at the chance.The main thing is get someone who has pretty close to the same mindset as you do about how things should be done.

-- Gary (burnett_gary@msn.com), May 07, 2002.

A partner perhaps? You could ask the advice from a local college that teaches agriculture, if there are any. Or, you could put up an add in the local farm supply places, grain elevators, etc. The thing with farmers being in a bind is that when the profit per acre drops, some farmers respond by getting bigger, which may mean they need more hay.

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), May 07, 2002.


Hey Ryan, I also live in norhern minn. and if you have that much land I would look seriously into planting trees. Wood stumpage is outragiously high and now you can get a tax break on your property taxes by mananging your own little forest. Contact the forestry service and/or one of the lumber mills up here. They used to pay people to plant trees on contract which used to at least pay for the property taxes.

-- handy (nmhoofer@paulbunyan.net), May 07, 2002.

Ryan,

I've been to your area and really love it. I say hang on to the land. I'm sure someone will come along to properly work the place. Maybe someone who has read this thread.

Rick

-- Rick (rick7@postmark.net), May 07, 2002.


Try contacting your local/nearest college/Univ. agricultural department or county extension agent to "learn more about permaculture, intercropping and things." Posting of notices where local farmers gather/buy supplies would appear to be a good starting point.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), May 07, 2002.

Ryan- Hi! I live in west central Minnesota. My parents belong to a sustainable farming group, and my mom grows organically and practices some permaculture. Feel free to e-mail me, and I can ask her for book titles, groups, or something to get you started. Good luck on your farm! Merry

-- Merry Nims (biggdogg@wcta.net), May 07, 2002.

I was going to suggest looking into trees, but handy beat me to it. What the heck - I still am. If you can talk to your local extension officers, you can probably find out a lot for no cost; and find out where to find the rest. If you choose a mix of trees at first, you can probably have them maturing annually over five-acre lots: a regular income forever. This could be your retirement income (of course, in your case, you wouldn't need that, but it can be done). Thinnings (Christmas trees) could give you an initial income, and stock can graze under growing trees if you don't overload the land. The shelter in your forest/woodlot will be good for the stock as well. Come to that, you can probably harvest a deer or two each year out of forested land as well.

You could also plant fungi (varieties of mushrooms). Wouldn't NEED to use them, but could sell as a gourmet food, or use yourself. I'm not sure about this next, but it might be possible to grow "wild" ginseng as well - I don't know about the requirements for ginseng versus your climate - I suspect things are too cold, but anything is worth looking into. They say goldenseal is a good alternative crop to ginseng - quicker to grow, less likely to be stolen.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), May 07, 2002.



Check out www.attra.org for permaculture info.

-- Jay Blair in N. AL (jayblair678@yahoo.com), May 07, 2002.

TREES, TREES, TREES!!!!!

-- buffy (buffyannjones@hotmail.com), May 08, 2002.

Ryan, one of the main ideas of permaculture is that nature takes care of itself. What I mean is, intensively gardening a small area to get food for you and your animals and leaving a large, (in your case it could be very large) buffer of land that is natural. Don't feel like you need to tame your whole property. The more land you let go "wild" the healthier the land you use will be.

As far as being overwhelmed, relax. There's no hurry, it's not a contest and if it isn't enjoyable it's not really worth it. Do what you can, not what you "should".

-- gilly (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), May 08, 2002.


A little advice on the county agent idea,these guys are usually folks who fall into 1 or 2 catagories 1)wanted to farm but could never figure out how to get started 2) Tried farming and went broke doing it Now do you really want advice from these guys? A farmer friend of ours always said a county agent could go broke growing pot and making moonshine (Two of the more lucative interprises ie illegal, around our area)

-- Gary (burnett_gary@msn.com), May 08, 2002.

Excuse ME? What are you talking about? Re your local County Cooperative Extension Service? Many of these people in our state are college graduates and many have Master Gardener, Nutritionist, and medical degrees after their name. They put on educational forums all the time. You have a disease on your corn? They'll come out to your place to help you out. Trouble with canning? They will help. Need some advice with your quilting? Call them. Are up to date on the latest information about so many things I couldn't list them here! They help with all phases of living, not just farming. They provide classes where we can go learn about what ever it is we need. I don't know where you live but our Extension Service works with our three universities and the classes provided often feature professors from the colleges who donate their time. That is the place to start if you need help. That is what they do. What's that song?? " That's my job, that's what I do..." LOL Well that IS what they do and here they do it well. So, to Doctor Kelly, that is where I suggest you start. Although I do agree that at this time in your life you might just do as suggested above, ease off, buy your feed and let this haying business go for now. Concentrate on enjoying your place. :) LQ

-- Little Quacker in OR (carouselxing@juno.com), May 08, 2002.

Re: County offices.

They vary widely in their talent & ability to help. Some are quite useless, some are extremely helpful. All depends where you live.

On the whole, they are a great resource for information, but as government agencies they tend to lose sight of what a budget is, and their solutions are often extremely expensive and short on a 'common sense' approach.

Good ideas, questionable application.

Again, depends a whole lot on what county you live in, each is it's own little empire....

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), May 08, 2002.


Well Little Quacker I've seen lots of folks with lots of letters after their names loose their behinds farming.Most serious farmers already know how to do what they do they just need to get it done in a certain time frame.A question have you ever turned a profit on an enterprise that you followed the advice of a county agent out exactly?

-- Gary (burnett_gary@msn.com), May 08, 2002.

We were working on our organic farm certification in VA after we moved to our farm there. The state of VA had a contact person I got off the internet about organic farming. Acutally got that information off the search for organic farming regs from the USDA, its better to go with the federal regs which were implemented a few yrs ago. If all had worked out there we would ahve been the first goat dairy in the state to do that. But alas, we moved last yr to AR.

As for county extension agents, I have met some who were really savvy and knowledgable, such as in western NYS where we both grew up there until almost 10 yrs ago. Now flash forward to VA and here. VA had a really nice program VA Tech sponsoired. However, their agents were not always aggresive enough in helping despite this. Now here in AR the Univ of AR has a great program, however, the agent in our county has the "Goats eat tin cans mentatily!" So there are good and information challenged ones out there.

They were great to work with and helpful. We had to devise a plan projecting 5 yrs and then have the soil tested for any chemicals, etc.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), May 08, 2002.


Well they may give some useful information mabe not.There probably was a need for them way back when great grandaddy didn't know whether to put 1 scoop or 2 scoops of chicken poop in the corn mash to make it ferment in the winter,but in this day and time their is alot better information available elsewhere.I doubt you'd get as good of advice from the extension office on growing vegatables as you would from reading J I Rodale's "How to Grow Vegetables and Fruits by the Organic Method" My grandfather was a early fan of J I Rodale and was ridiculed by these same extension agent types for not embracing chemicals such as DDT now who was right?Also these guys that used to give you 90 eleven "good" reason to drain that "swamp" in the back 40 can now with a straight face give you 90 eleven reasons why that "swamp" in the back 40 should be considered a valuable "wetland" if we'd listened to them 30 years ago there wouldn't be a wetland to save.

-- Gary (burnett_gary@msn.com), May 09, 2002.

I hear you on that, Gary! Right on the button. Sigh.

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), May 09, 2002.


ryan , let me know where you are , off forum , i bet a D.O.G. member would be happy to help you out!!!

-- Beth in ND (famvan@drtel.net), May 09, 2002.

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