Another elderberry question

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I have what I THINK is an elderberry tree growing near my compost pile. I don't like it and I am thinking about cutting it down- it is getting really big due to all the good nutrients it sucks out of the compost pile, and I have a hard time keeping it trimmed back. I read that elderberry trees are a good source of nectar for bees, a fact which might have compelled me to keep it for their sake except that I have never seen any of my honeybees anywhere near it. I have seen a great variety of other kinds of bees and insects though, and now I am not sure whether it is an elderberry tree or not.

I wonder whether this might not be something else entirely which just happens to be similar in appearance to the elderberry? The pictures I compared it to were poor and I could not positively ID it from them. Or, maybe something else, better, is in bloom at the same time so the bees just aren't interested? Or maybe the bees did not read the same book that I did? Any ideas?

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), May 05, 2002

Answers

Elizabeth, I think your first step is a positive ID on this tree. Take off a little branch, with leaves and blooms and take it to your County Extension Agent. Then you have a place to start. It is a big decision to cut down a tree I know. We did that with a huge cottonwood that was dropping limbs on our house! Hated to do it but had no choice. Good luck, LQ

-- Little Quacker in OR (carouselxing@juno.com), May 05, 2002.

Go to http://www.hcs.ohio-state.edu:90/pmi_4/FMPro If that doesn't work it's Ohio State University plant dictionary. There are good pictures of the plant, flowers and foliage. You should be able to make a positive i.d. Elderberries are very ornamental and the berries make good jelly ((mixed with apple juice especially), juice and wine.

-- Peg (wildwoodfarms@hushmail.com), May 05, 2002.

Hi Elizabeth...I'm thinking the plant you're descibing is not elderberry, but in fact Poke....All I can say is get rid of it! It produces berries that birds love, but are poisonous to humans. Where I am elderberries thrive in damp locations, especially along creek banks...I don't think Elderberries would grow where you say they are. Elderberry flowers grown in clusters and Poke berries grow in clumps like grapes. Check with you Ag. Agent or locate in a good reference book to be sure.

-- Harmony (harmonyfarm57@hotmail.com), May 05, 2002.

Elderberries grow thick along road sides in the Ozarks. They are not trees in this part of the country but long stem plants that grow on clumps .And to correct the comment about poke. The white sap is poison. It is a much sought after green in these here parts. I was taught that young leaves are good to eat but you must boil them and change the water a couple of times. I was also taught NEVER! eat the stems. My Pennsylvania Husband on the other hand was taught that the leaves were poison. Only eat the stems BUT boil them and change the water several times. I eat the leaves fixed like wilted lettuce. He eats young stalks in milk and butter. We are both just fine. The reason of course is that both methods got rid of the sap! He cuts the young stems like okre, About A half inch long. That way all the sap cooks out. Shucks! All this talk makes me hungry. I think i'll go look for some.

-- corky wolf (corkywolf@hotmail.com), May 05, 2002.

Elderberry leaves are poisonous (cyanide). The berries make a wonderful jam and may have some anti-viral qualities (the syrup in the health food stores seems effective!) Mine grow as a clump of woody stems. Further identification would seem appropriate.

-- Nina (Ingardenwithcat@hotmail.com), May 05, 2002.


To the responce about Poke. My Grandma has been eating it for 85 years without any ill effect. We harvest it when it is no more than 8" tall and cook it through three changes of water. My Great Grandpa used to grind Poke weed and mix it with rock candy and moonshine (I know but we are hill billies)and take a tablespoon every morning for arthiritus.

-- Ed Holt (goat@sssnet.com), May 05, 2002.

I thought poke was spelled polk.

-- Paul Martin (rpm44@centurytel.net), May 05, 2002.

I have made elderberry/wild blackberry wine and it was wonderful. It was so hard to get enough blackberries to make wine, that I picked all the elderberries I could find and mixed them together. It was about 1/4th (or less)blackberries and 3/4th (or more) elderberry. The color was wonderful and the elderberry worked as an extender. I could taste only the blackberry. I made it pretty sweet, for sippin', kind of like a purple sherry.

-- lacyj (hillharmony@hotmail.com), May 05, 2002.

If it IS sambucus - treasure it. Research in Israel and Germany proove that its berry's syrup prevents 12 influenza viruses. I haven't had the flu for 20 years. We make wine and jam from the berries. A small bottle at the store costs 27 $!!!

-- Elizabeth Quintana (rockshelter@webtv.com), May 05, 2002.

Description Pokeweed is a large and coarse herbaceous weed with big leaves, a stout reddish trunk, widely branching reddish stems, and elongated erect clusters of small white flowers that give way to drooping clusters of dark purple berries. The leaves are smooth, 6-12" long and taper at both ends. Mature leaves give off an unpleasant odor when bruised. The flowers are borne in 6-10" racemes and are about a quarter-inch across with white petal-like sepals. (There are no true petals.) The berries are juicy, shiny, dark purplish black, and about a quarter-inch in diameter, and the stems that support them are bright red. The berries ripen in autumn, and all parts of the plant take on more of a reddish or purplish hue as the season progresses. Pokeberry is an herbaceous perennial that dies back in winter and grows quickly in spring to 8-12' tall with a spread of 3-4' or more. It sometimes falls over and sometimes large branches just break off under their own weight.

Location Pokeweed is native to eastern North America from Ontario, Quebec and Maine, west to Minnesota, and south to Texas, Mexico and Florida. It grows in waste places, along roads and fencerows, in abandoned fields, and in open woods. Pokeweed can be a troublesome weed but usually behaves itself.

Culture Light: Full sun to partial shade. Moisture: Pokeweed can tolerate short droughts, but it really thrives with adequate watering. Hardiness: USDA Zones 2 - 11. Propagation: Pokeweed self seeds readily throughout its native range. Selections can be propagated by digging and replanting pieces of root.

Usage Pokeweed is a rather handsome shrub-like herbaceous perennial that is at home in the naturalized or open woodland garden. Some gardeners use pokeweed in shrub or mixed borders. Others just select a few plants to retain from among the many seedlings that pop up wherever they please each spring.

Native Americans introduced the first colonists to pokeweed, and they in turn delivered it back to Europe where it became a popular vegetable. In spring, the young shoots with their leafy tips (6-8" long) are gathered before they take on their reddish tint and boiled for 20-30 minutes in two or more changes of water, then eaten like spinach. It seems like a lot of bother, but pokeweed leaves are said to be delicious, tasting a little like asparagus. Really serious vegetable gardeners dig the big fibrous roots when the plants die back after the first freeze, break them into 6" lengths, and replant in containers. Watered regularly and kept in a warm cellar, the pokeweed roots send up tender, blanched edible shoots for months.

Features In addition to eating the young shoots and leaves, native Americans and early American settlers made a crimson dye from the berry juice. Native Americans from throughout its range used pokeweed concoctions for a wide variety of internal and external medicinal applications.

The berries, ripening in autumn and poisonous to humans, are very popular with migrating songbirds, especially robins, towhees, mockingbirds, mourning doves, catbirds, and bluebirds. The birds are very effective at converting the purple berries into purple splotches on the sidewalk. Sometimes the birds get drunk on overly ripe berries and don't seem to care where they leave their purple splotches.

WARNING The roots, berries, seeds, and mature stems and leaves of pokeweed are dangerously poisonous. Only the young shoots and developing leaves (before they take on their reddish hue) can be eaten, and only after boiling for 20-30 minutes in at least two changes of water. Be very careful not to get any of the root when picking the young shoots. Pokeweed should not be cultivated anywhere there is a chance that a person might try to eat the berries.

Pokeweed is an alternative host for several plant viruses that feeding insects can transmit to members of the Solanaceae, Liliaceae and Amaryllidaceae growing nearby.

sc 7/23/00

Copyright 1996 - 2001 Floridata.com L.C.

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), May 05, 2002.



Elizabeth, Elderberry is more of a tall shrub rather than a tree. Just drive down any road, even 301 and look along the ditch line. Those bushes with flowers that look kinda like queen annes lace (a weed up north) is the elderberry. The flowers can be picked and deep fried in a batter. The berries which should be showing up about now can be made into jellies and wine. I tried cooking some last year and it was a pain especially with the u-pick strawberries being so reasonable at the same time ;~) Pokeweed is totally differant. Doesn't have the same lacy flower and pokeweeds berries are closer to a red (along with the stem of pokeweed) than elderberrie which is so purple as to be black. (Ederberry stems and leaves are green with no red tints, a paleish green closer to celery green rather than pine needle green) Also, pokeweed - has bigger leaves than elderberry which, I believe, is in groups of five on delecate stems whereas pokeweeds stems are rather meaty.

Your Neighbor!

-- Diana in FL (dvance4@juno.com), May 06, 2002.


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