Girls Made to Show Panties at School Dance Wed May 1, 8:57 AM ET By Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Angry parents demanded the resignation of a California high school vice principal after she lifted the skirts of teenage girls at a dance to make sure they were wearing "appropriate" underwear.

Parents at Rancho Bernardo High School in suburban San Diego say the vice principal, Rita Wilson, made the girls prove that they were not wearing skimpy thong panties before they were allowed into the dance on Friday.

In some cases, said Rancho Bernardo parent Kim Teal, girls also were made to partially undress if Wilson or another teacher suspected that they weren't wearing bras.

"These girls feel violated," said Teal, whose daughter Rebecca, a sophomore, was asked about her panties but escaped a search after telling Wilson that she was not wearing a thong.

"One girl just cried after having to tell her father this story, she was hiding her head in a sweatshirt," Teal said, adding that the girls had their skirts lifted in front of men and their male classmates.

"After a while the girls finally got the idea that they shouldn't say 'thong' when they were asked, even though that's all they wear now. They won't be caught dead in the locker room wearing regular underwear," she said Tuesday.

Wilson and Paul Gentle, Rancho Bernardo's principal, were unavailable for comment on the skirt-lifting.

Don Phillips, superintendent of the Poway Unified School District, said students, staff and others were being interviewed to determine what happened at the dance, which he said was attended by about 725 pupils.

"The principal is talking with the parents involved," he said. "We are taking this seriously and want to ensure that any actions to be taken are based on the facts of the situation."

Teal, a 43-year-old attorney, said she learned about the skirt-lifting from her daughter, whose friends were forced to show their panties in front of boys, teachers and police officers standing at the door.

She said most of the girls who wore skirts or dresses to the dance, which had a "blast from the past" theme, reported being grilled about their underwear or forced to show them to Wilson or another teacher.

Teachers also checked several boys who were wearing togas, Teal said, and some girls were asked about their bras.

"I just got a call from one mom who said her daughter was wearing a poodle skirt and an off-the-shoulder top and a teacher reached right out and grabbed the front of it and pulled it down to check," Teal said.

Teal said she and other parents would demand the resignation of Wilson and any other teachers involved and would also consider filing a lawsuit against the school district for violating the civil rights of their daughters.

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Talk about two-faced school officials. These are the same folks who promote sex, give out condoms show kids how to use them, and say that sexually anything goes, and that we MUST accept all sexual orientations no matter what we think about them.

Now they have the audacity to check on what people are or aren't wearing under their clothes. It is outrageous, and if I were one of the parents I would do something about it. This type of voyeuristic surveillance has to stop. It is going on many places. I have read about several just in the past week. Most likely for every one reported there are many that aren't.

Is it the schools business what they wear under their clothes? I may or may not approve of what these girls were wearing, but they should be able to wear it if no one else can see it, or am I wrong here???

-- Bob in WI (bjwick@hotmail.com), May 01, 2002

Answers

Wrong ? NO !!! If it were my child there is no question in my mind at all---I would have shot him ! And no jury in the world would have convicted me of anything more than reckless endangerment.

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), May 01, 2002.

Dear Bob, Get a life bub! I tell ya, even though our kids are homeschooled I can imagine...heck no, I was part of it when I went to public high school... the things we did there to try and get a rise out of folks, like maybe wearing thongs, (they weren't invented then) or more likely wearing NOTHING underneath our graduation gowns.

Come on, the kids do this sort of thing as a simple act of rebellion, the teachers do their "inspections" as a matter of maintaining "control".

The only difference IMHO is that there are way too many lawyer parents these days than days of yore. If you read the accounts from the different sources available on the news, you'll find that the "Panty Inspecton" was pretty tame.

Bottom line (get it?), if ours wasn't such a litigous society anymore, and we kept our hands out of other peoples pockets, ours would be a more civil society where we put our energy more towards educating our children, rather than teaching them how to take every one to court.

No offense Bob, I'm certain to back in this thread and I have been here just long enough to know that it will be long and contentious.

-- Tis I (really_tis_i@yahoo.com), May 01, 2002.

Might want to check the history behind this dance? Togas were worn as I understand it and some of the kids were without underwear altogether. I think it's not unreasonable for the staff to insist on proper attire and going without underwear is just not acceptable. I wouldn't want my kid attending a dance that let that stuff go on. Just my take on it. :) LQ

-- Little Quacker in OR (carouselxing@juno.com), May 01, 2002.

Maybe they could have been more discreet about it, but a thong under a poodle skirt is not a good idea. Remember, poodle skirts are also usually "full circle" skirts, and when you spin, you do show your underwear? Teenage girls are not going to think about that when they are getting dressed, and I'm sure a lot of them don't even own a pair of "regular" underwear!

Thank goodness thongs are a recent invention, I wore a poodle skirt in a high school play 15 years ago and forgot my bloomers! If I'd have been wearing a thong then, my parents would have BOTH fainted!

-- Christine in OK (cljford@mmcable.com), May 01, 2002.

Get real Joel- they would probably convict you of homicide!

-- Elizabeth (ekfla@aol.com), May 01, 2002.

yup, you're not putting out the full story here. This dance is an annual event called "The Morp". Last year it got completely out of control with students not wearing underwear under their skirts and costumes and then exposing themselves at the event. I'd say put the blame for that kind of activity on their parents instead of blaming the teachers for trying to keep the event decent.

And come on let's be realistic. This kind of activity is not a sign of the times or the agenda taught in schools now. These kinds of things have been going on for many generations. Teenagers and even some younger are going to have sex whether they're taught about "safe-sex" or not. Homeschool or public school. That didn't just start in the last few decades either.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), May 01, 2002.

Like it or not, legal or not, it's none of their business. Sorry, but no-one can tell me what to wear under my clothes, I don't care who they are. And to insist on inspections in front of others is inappropriate, to say the least, if not illegal at a high=school level. If they're that concerned about dress code (and I guess it's happened before), then drop the toga night and have an Elizabethan evening instead. If they don't, then they live with the consequences. They should all be fired, or worse, charged with indecent assault, in my opinion.

Russ

-- (imashortguy@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

Dave is correct. to put it bluntly--every generation thinks they are the one that invented oral sex. I know it is a crude thought but real non the less

If you throw my daughter or son out of a public dance for showing their a^& than I applaud you--lift her skirt to check ? I'll shoot you--not kill you, but I guarantee, you'll never walk or lift a skirt again !

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), May 02, 2002.

first off i believe in spankings in school as well as the home. my daughters aren't even old enough for kindergarten but i can assure you the school and the teachers will know where i stand on every questionable issue. i have very strong convictions against violence towards women but if that was my daughter being exposed in front of male students faculty an security, well that wench had best make her peace with the lord because her @$$ is done on earth. if students want to expose themselves then subject them to the courts. if they want to set a dress code for the kids outer garments, fine! what kids wear under their clothes is the business of only two or three people the kid, mom and/or dad. if youseriously believe it was okay for this woman to publicly expose these girls in front of boys and men then you are one twisted sick individual.

-- Pops (pops762@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

What's the point of making sure they have on decent underwear so they don't expose themselves....if the teachers are going to expose them during the search? Too weird.

-- Sue (sulandherb@aol.com), May 02, 2002.

Just another example of a gov't school that wants to intrude into every aspect of private life except the one with which it should be concerned- education, in the proper sense of the word. This is peanuts compared to that case of the PA. 6th graders getting vaginal exams ( in which case I believe the Supreme court found in favor of the school, big surprise (no

-- J.S. (stoom2@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

If there where problems with the previous dances then it shuld have been adressed before with strict warnings of the place getting shutdown for inappropriate acts, charges or ? against offending students, etc. I'm with Joel on this one! I think I would have taken someones arm off.

-- Novina in ND (homespun@stellarnet.com), May 02, 2002.

First off I hope I have taught my children enough that they would have told them to go to hell ! No I am not for disrespect but it would have been fine in this case.2nd what the heck are high school girls doing wearing tongs ?????????????? There is no need , no one should be seeing there underware either !Where are the parents someone is buying these things and washing them . I have taught my children if something makes you feel uncomfortable run like heck sceaming , kicking , you name it .No one has the right to touch you in a way you do not like , NOT ANYONE .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

yup, you're not putting out the full story here. This dance is an annual event called "The Morp". Last year it got completely out of control with students not wearing underwear under their skirts and costumes and then exposing themselves at the event. I'd say put the blame for that kind of activity on their parents instead of blaming the teachers for trying to keep the event decent.

As I suspected there were some pertinent facts missing here.

Underwear checks is going *too* far to be sure but the school's are not there to be putting on Saturnalia's either. Having had an opportunity to chaperone high school kids in the last ten years or so I'm not surprised that a lot of the kids were doing this kind of thing. It's the nature of adolescents to push the envelope for all they are worth and the RESPONSIBILITY of the adults tasked with seeing to their education, safety, and well-being that they don't push it too far. Sounds like they had been going over the edge in the past and the school was trying to bring it back under control. Unfortunately, it sounds like the school used poor judgement and went too far themselves. What would have been more appropriate would be to make any particular child that exposed themself inappropriately to leave the dance for the night and have them off the property, with perhaps a disciplinary action to follow.

As a parent myself any school official that lifted my daughter's skirt would be courting a fist in the nose. At one and the same time any boy at that dance who exposed himself to my daughter would be courting something worse still when I found out about it. So far as my daughter going to the dance itself it's my repsonsibility as a parent to make sure that she's dressed appropriately. Sounds like a great many parents had been abdicating their responsiblities in that regard but given the general decay of the American culture I can't say I'm surprised at that.

.......Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), May 02, 2002.

All my oldest (18) wears is thongs, the youngest (15) will wear them with certain pants. From what they've told me, I've never worn them- my whole life has been spent keeping underwear out of there!, thongs are very comfortable to wear. I believe that my kids would have refused to be searched, and raised holy hell if someone just grabbed their skirt to look underneath it. I can hear the 18 year old now, "My mother has an attorney and she knows how to use it! I suggest you not touch me." No one has the right to conduct a search of your under garments, if it happened to my kids I'd have the people involved fired, and I would never have to worry about paying for my girl's education. If they have had so many problems with this dance in the past, it should be cancelled.

Just my humble opinion--

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), May 02, 2002.

I totally agree that no one, and that includes a teacher, has the right to inspect anyone's underwear! I would have been wild if that would have my daughter! I do remember some of the pranks I participated in when a teenager, but what the teacher did was really in bad taste. I do hope that the parents of those teenagers sue and that teacher gets fired.

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

I have heard of underwear checks, but not that kind! On the dance shows they put on TV the underwear checks were simply that if you flashed your bare but you were taken out. Nobody is going to force my daughter to show herself: I have spent too much time explaining to her that no one has the right to put their hands on her, and no means NO! And that includes adults! The only exceptions I gave her was the doctor during an exam and a female cop if she is arrested! She has the right to her own body!

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), May 02, 2002.

Thongs are not comfortable! hehe My daughter would have given anyone the whatfor if asked to show her thong...lol let them try. I think this whole thing was bazar. Why not just escort them out when they show their stuff? I hate idiots!

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), May 02, 2002.

Ok, as a recent graduate of public school, I can say I think your being a little extreme about official "promoting sex". The only sex education I got from school was about 1/2 hour in 6th grade telling the girls about periods (the boys were kept in a separate room) and about and hour in 7th grade covering anatomy. I sincerely hope that most of the kids, like me, recieved additional education from their parents. Also, condoms were never handed out. You could probably go to the nurse and ask her for one, but no one ever did. If your kids want condoms, they can go to 7-11, and I hope they do. Denial really iisn't a good idea in this case.

-- Elizabeth (Lividia66@aol.com), May 02, 2002.

If a stranger on the street grabbed a teen and looked down their shirt or pulled their pants down, in front of everyone else, too boot, if even a policeman did this, to check for indecent exposure, what would your reaction be? I would call it abuse and act accordingly- it doesn't matter whether the perpetrator was male or female. Women abuse girls and bots, just as men do, it simply isn't acknowledged very much. I understand that the intent here was not for the teachers to get thrills from their actions, but the effect was the same, it eroded the rights of the teens, at a time when they are still defining their boundaries and whether or not they have the right to say no. I think that even a teen getting an exam at the doctor's should be able to say Stop, and leave the office if she desires.

I cannot understand why these teens didn't leave after they saw one or two classmates thus exposed, why they allowed the same humiliation to be done to themselves. The only thing I can figure, is that they didn't feel like they had the right to say no.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), May 02, 2002.

That should be- Women abuse girls and boys!!! I think I have been guilty of bot abuse myself- let's see, where did I put that Ivermectin?

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), May 02, 2002.

How about they cancel the dance if it had gotten out of hand in years past what's to say it won't again. Kids will push it to the limit so why not stop it before it starts. It seems to me that canceling the dance and having something else to replace it would have been a better choice. Sally

-- (mallardhen67@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

Or the kids could boycott the dance if it was going to involve groping by the teachers...

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), May 02, 2002.

If the dance got out of hand last year, it should not have been held this year. How hard is that? Who'da thunk wedgies would become de rigeur? The school officials who took part should all be canned. What poor judgement! Obviously people with butt floss on the brain need some serious mental floss.

-- snoozy (bunny@northsound.net), May 02, 2002.

I agree with Joel. If my daughter is caught dancing around in no underwear, send her home and we will have a long chat. However NOBODY checks under my daughter's skirt and anyone that has the nerve to touch her better realize that Daddy is a darn good shot!!!

Little Bit Farm

-- Little bit Farm (littlebit@farm.com), May 02, 2002.

There is nothing wrong with thongs! People wear them under pants or skirts where more traditional underwear would show lines. Some people find that they like them and wear them more often or all the time. Others (like me) find them uncomfterable and avoid them when they aren't nesecary. Wearing a thong doesn't mean that you're hungry for sex.

And while I'm on the topic I'd like to tell everyone that thinks sex-ed is bad that you're wrong. In my school we had to give a permission slip to our parents to sign. If the parents whated to handle this topic within the family then they didn't sign it and the kids left the classroom and did a seperate activity while the rest of us got a very profesional and informational lecture on STDs, how to have "safe" sex, and that abstenance was the only way to truely protect yourself. Sex-ed doesn't advocate sex and it doesn't tell you that condoms are the answer to all your problems either. It informs you of the risks involved, and educates you on how to protect yourself. The biggest thing stressed in the class was that abstenance was the only sure fire way to protect yourself but that a condom durring sex was better than nothing. And FYI the only girls that got pregnant in my high school were the ones who's parents were ultrastrich and gave them the sex talk themselves. The ones that slept around at least had the brains to use a condom. (Of course that doesn't take into account abortions)

Anyway, I'm not trying to be rude so if this post comes off that way I appalogize. I just wanted people to hear a view on the subject from someone who just came out of the trenches so to speak (I graduated in '01). And P.S. If that was me at the dance there would have been some very disfigured teachers when my dad found out.

-- Erika (misserika129@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

Hi Erika,

The problem with most (if not all) sex education classes in school is that the prevailing attitude is that "kids will be kids, they're going to sleep around anyway", which is not true in most cases.

Abstinence, if mentioned at all (and in many classes it isn't), is done so as an afterthought, not the main concept. The main concept seems to be "safe sex", which of course is condoning the practice. The classes don't even get into "this is your life before kids, this is your life after kids, and this is how you could end up if you sleep with someone who has AIDS and the condom breaks (picture of dead person or actual damaged tissues)". I mean, anti-smoking classes used to feature actual smoke-damaged lungs, do sex-ed classes feature the equivalent today?

My own opinion on the underwear check is that the lawsuit shouldn't be civil rights based so much, but they should seek criminal assault charges and jail time for these people instead, as well as civil damages.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), May 02, 2002.

GT, our sex ed class covered ALL of those things that you mentioned, right down to pictures of diseased tissue. The only thing they didn't cover was AIDS, which was unknown in the 70's! I realize that everything has changed since those days, the point I am trying to make is that everyone has heard the horror stories about lousy examples of sex ed, and people don't realize how many schools actually do a GOOD job of presenting the downside and risks of sleeping around. I believe this is true now, as it was in my day.

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), May 02, 2002.

Yet, another example of the govt. sticking their noses where they dont belong.

-- tim wilsons (timmy@orvis.net), May 02, 2002.

I'm sorry for getting sompletely off the subject of the original post but it's important for me to share my opinion and experiences on this matter. So in respectful response to GT..... I realize that some classes are going to be different depending on which school is it at and what area you are in. But most of the people that I've talked to in college (people from everywhere in the country and from every type of area) had a similar experience to mine in highschool. Schools do not use scare tactics when it comes to sex (or shouldn't if they do). As much as it may seem like it's a good idea to show dead bodies, or AIDS patients in hospitals, or teen mothers at their wits end and then tell kids that this is what sex does to you, this type of thing doesn't keep kids from having sex or keep them "safe" (using a condom) when they do. If anything it turns us off of what's being said and then they miss the information and message that's trying to be delivered. When adults try to convey a message using scare tactics there is a tendancy for kids to stop listning. We are smart people and resent being treated like we shouldn't be told all sides of an argument because we wouldn't understand, or don't need to know. Believe me, by highschool just telling kids NO won't cut it any more (in most cases). We want the whole truth and then we'll make our own decisions. Of course a child's upbringing and parent's opinion will play a big part in this decision but by highschool kids are young adults and want to be treated as such.

Our school did show pictures of AIDS patients, and sick people , and told us about parenthood--but did so in a way that we listened. The object of sex-ed is to educate. It is a moral choice to have sex or not before marriage and schools are not responsible for achild's morals. The purpose of these types of programs is to educate people for a time when they choose to have sex and to help them make responsible, informed choices when they do. If they choose abstinance (which is stressed over and over again as the only way to truely be safe) then great, at least they know the facts. If they choose to have sex sooner than that at least they can be educated about their choice and be "safe" (using a condom).

I won't get into my personal choices because that is not the issue here. But I can tell you that with out knowing all of the facts it would have been hard for me to see the seriousness of the subject and the hugeness of the decision to have sex. Of course my parents told me not to have sex until I was married yada, yada, yada but they would have had to do some serious library research to give me all the information that the school did. By high school most kids will make their own decisions about sex no matter what their parents do. It's in the child's best interest to have all the facts before they make that decision and it's the school and parent's responsiblity to present those facts.

OK, I'll get off my soap box.

-- Erika (misserika129@hotmail.com), May 02, 2002.

Erika, In my 72 years I have lived and worked in several countries and cultures, each with it's own approach to sex education, from "no more room in the lifeboat" to "go forth and multiply".

If I were forced to be to reincarnated in any form except my chemical components (fertilizer), I would choose to return as one of your children, Knowing that I would not be an accident.

-- Griff in OR (griff@hangnail.com), May 02, 2002.

GT get real. Everyone thinks about sex. Kids are not going to stop having sex, neither are adults. If you tell them not to, it makes it all the more fun!

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), May 03, 2002.

Julie, I'm not saying kids and adults don't think about it. I'm saying that many schools do not do a good job with sex ed. Do they tell kids "before you have sex, go with your prospective partner and MAKE them get an AIDs test and let you see the results? Every month? No, just wear a condom and trust that it won't break." What is wrong with emphasizing telling kids to wait until they get married, as opposed to "sure, go ahead, sleep with anything that moves as long as you wear that thin little piece of rubber"?

Sex ed is not rocket science either, so if parents aren't teaching it it is probably due more to religious issues than not knowing how. That I don't agree with (ignoring it altogether). But some "scare tactics" as you and others may refer to them, as long as they're truthful, may save some kids from a bad end, so why not use them?

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), May 03, 2002.

And I'm not saying "wait 'til you get married" for religious reasons, either--other reasons to wait are so that you can get the other benefits that go along with it should something awful happen-- insurance, inheritance, social security, etc.

As the old saying goes, "why buy the cow...."

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), May 03, 2002.

GT, I have NEVER heard of a sex ed class "say sleep with anything that moves, just as long as you use that thin piece of rubber". Ever. I think that is an urban legend. What they told US was something along the lines of "You will want to know about contraception eventually. After marriage is better, but you should know about this so you can make an educated choice on whether or not you will decide to use it."

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), May 03, 2002.

Terri, they might as well say it. No different from dispensing condoms from the nurse's office, or handing them out at the proms.

Would you want a DARE class saying, "well, you'll probably experiment with illegal drugs at some point in your life, try to find an honest dealer"? Of course not, yet that is how today's school-run sex ed classes operate, under the assumption that every person is going to sleep around. Expect the worst, and you'll get it. I just saw a recent story on Yahoo about some basketball player in SD under arrest for passing on the AIDS virus--many people are having to be tested because of this. Very sad.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), May 03, 2002.

Well, my friends and I didn't.

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), May 04, 2002.

How about I do not approve of you having sex , I will not tell you its ok but if you choose to go against my wishes this is what you need to know .I will not be happy but I will still love you .I want you to be safe whenever you choose the time is right fo you .

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), May 04, 2002.