This question came up at the table at lunch today. My children had finished their school work and were eager to get outside to play. I said it wasn't play time yet, that we would be going outside to work. They had to work in the yard until they saw the school busses going down the road, then they could go play or whatever.

One child said, "I don't know if I'd rather go to school and not come home till then, and then play; or if I'd rather still do school at home, do work till then, and then play." (I hope you get the gist of what was said there:o)

I stated that if they went to school they would still have chores to do when they got home. My children seem to have the idea that most farm kids who go to regular school do not do many chores at home.

I thought about this just now as I was reading over Melissa's family values thread. One thing I am trying to instill in our children is the work ethic; to take pride in a job well done, and to be prepared to work hard for a living.

So, my question: of your friends, neighbours, relatives, whatever, what percentage of the children do you think do more than keeping their room in order and helping with the dishes? (I hope they do at least that much!) I'm thinking that city kids probably do less than farm kids, simply because there isn't as much to do. Our children's friends who live in town have more free time than our kids do.

-- Cathy N. (eastern Ontario) (homekeeper86@sympatico.ca), April 23, 2002

Answers

I agree Cathy, there's simply less for most city kids to do. Outside of household chores there isn't much left. I would take note that some city kids have jobs outside the home but not the majority and it's probably alot less now than 20-30 years ago. Kids in general aren't as active as they used to be if you go by the polls and data out there. Think of all the things kids used to do before video games and cable tv were around. When I was a farm kid, some days I dreaded to come home lol. Especially in the fall because that meant cutting or splitting wood while most of my classmates were having fun. I recall missing a few days here and there to get things done too. I pretty much ran things on the farm so I at least didn't have to take orders. I had a classmate on a dairy farm nearby that had to hide from his dad in the morning alot of times so he could catch the bus to school. The school finally gave him an adjusted schedule where he could come in a few hours late.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

I don't think too many kids do more than that, and most don't do that much! Friends who live on farms do seem to have their kids involved, usually because it is necesary if they want to get out of the barn in time to have any family life!!!

We started something new these last 2 months. I have been wanting to tell you all, but haven't had time. I use my kitchen calendar and plan out the chores for the whole month. Each evening they are assigned a chore(s) that must be done by them, and they rotate. This has worked spectaculary well, and has caused all grumbling to cease, because they know it is fair, and they know ahead of time what must be done.

When my brother was here last week, he was teasing Lindsey about why SHE had to do the dishes, and she just said, because it's on the calendar, and kept working. He couldn't believe she was so accepting about it!!! My sister after seeing how well it worked went home and did the same thing for her kids. Greatest thing I ever did!!!

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), April 23, 2002.

Sometimes letting kids play too much, makes them realize that they actaully enjoy having a little work to do! The days I let them do anything they want, are the ones when they are generally the most discontent. So giving them real work to do, not busy work, actually makes for a better day here.

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), April 23, 2002.

I think chores are very important. It teaches children that there is responsibilities in being part of a family and that it is important to cooperate and work together. Nor have we have never given our children an allowance. No one in a family gets paid for being part of a family and working together to get things done. It is just family responsibility. Mom doesn't get paid for doing laundry, cooking meals, etc. Dad doesn't get paid for tilling the garden, fixing the barn, etc. Children don't get paid for thier chores either. Some things in life you just do because it is the thing to do and not because you are getting paid to do them.

Our youngest just turned 6 years old last week. He has a little chart on his door with all his daily chores broke down into "morning chores", "afternoon chores" and "night chores". They consist of things like cleaning his room, making his bed, brushing his teeth, feeding the dog, taking his dirty clothes down to the laundry, taking the dog out, feeding and watering the cat, etc. I sure don't believe in working children morning to night. Children don't get to be children for very long and should have lots of time to watch clouds, talk to the chickens, and just be children; but chores are important for instilling work ethnics and family values.

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

Both of my children attended/attend public schools. We have lived in town most of those years. They started helping out around the house as young as 2! They learned to put toys away and could help set the table. By 4, they were folding thier own clothes-not perfect but they tried and I resisted the urge to "refold" them. They took pride and still do in the things they accomplish. My 20 year old is putting herself through college(my hubby got laid off) and will be getting her own apartment this Fall. My 17 year old is finishing high school and working in a garden center. Both are capabile of cooking, cleaning and managing finances. I do agree that most of the city children are not expected to do much for helping and have become very spoiled over the years-tv, video games etc. Many that we know let thier under 13year old children watch 'R' rated movies

-- pookie (codemental@yahoo.com), April 23, 2002.

I think too it depends upon the attitude of the parents. For example, I know parents who won't let their children work because they feel, "well, you'll be working most of your life anyway, why start early?" I know children who were raised this way, and they were very grateful for this early indulgence, so to speak, and they grew up just fine, for the most part. Other parents are so anxious to boot 'em out at 18, that they encourage their children to work. These children also turned out pretty well, for the most part.

As to the city/farm child comparison, I would not compare it so much to city/farm as I would to employee/family business (which is what most farms are). Unless the city person is running a home-based business, there is probably nothing in their job that can (or should) be done by a child. On the other hand, farms are full of jobs for children, although it's one thing if the farm is a family business as opposed to the parents' hobby.

As to chores, I think watching (and changing!) a baby sibling (under proper supervision of course) is not only a good chore to learn patience, but excellent abstinence/birth control education (this is your life, this is your life after baby). If a city person is running a home business, there are things a child could learn to do, like stamping envelopes, sorting the important mail from the junk mail, packing boxes, etc.

I am somewhat relaxed about rooms. If you can find what you need, clutter doesn't bother me so much (no eating in the bedroom), but if you can't, then yes, you need to clean your room. Some of us are visually organized (leave things out in clear storage, or hanging on the wall for instance), while some of us put things in drawers and closets, and close the drawers and the doors. It's tough if you're one and your parent is another.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 23, 2002.

I raised my first 2 kids in the city and am raising these 5 in the country. My kids all had to do household chores, such as folding clothes, dusting, vacuuming, cleaning the bathroom, cleaning up their room, etc.. The 5 I'm raising now have to do one big or two small farm chores each day, too. If a job is really big, I put more than one on it, sometimes all five. They still have plenty of time to play. I am homeschooling 4 of them and one is in public school. All have equal work.

-- Gayle in KY (gayleannesmith@yahoo.com), April 23, 2002.

I have a Dear Friend who raised her son in the city. At 10 years old, he was doing his own laundry, hamper to to closet. He could cook a meal and clean up after himself. He learned to clean a bathroom, to vacuume and dust. He mowed the lawn and pulled weeds and helped his dad on projects.

He got married at 20 years old and his young wife appreciates that he knows these things as they both work and are buying a home, which he knows how to maintain.

Cathy, remind your children that public school kids are usually exhausted by time they get off the bus. It is hard work for them not to get eaten by sharks! And they have about 3 hours of homework to do.

-- Laura (LadybugWrangler@somewhere.com), April 23, 2002.

My 9 yr old is still in Public school and has lots of chores,both before and after school.He feeds all the livestock before school...takes about 1/2 an hour.After school,he does homework,then whatever we're working on he helps with.Meaning,if I mow,he picks up the sticks in the yard,he collects the eggs,bottlefeeds whatever babies we have,keeps his room clean,dusts,does dishes on certain days,etc.He does ALOT,and still has to watch his 2 yr old brother sometimes.

However,I don't want him to be a couch potato like so many of his friends,so I keep him busy.He also understands that it's not WORK,but his contribution to keep this family running smoothly.His chores are valued as much as mine are,and he's a BIG help.

-- Johna (in central TX) (marcnjohna@aol.com), April 24, 2002.

My kids do go to public school, and while they are tired, they usually really want to get outside and do something! So they don't usually mind the chores. Lindsey will even ask if I can give her an "outside" job...

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), April 24, 2002.

My kids live on a farm and go to public school. When we didn't live on the farm they still had chores.

Chores are designed to only take 10-15 minutes (if they do them and not dawdle). I don't consider it a chore to clean up after themselves or to help set the table and clean up after dinner--they are eating, after all.

They are given a variety of chores so it doesn't get boring. The chores are designed to teach living skills--that way their future spouse doesn't have to teach them.

Our allowance is not tied to chores, but they are not bought anything (except birthday and christmas), and they must use their money for non-family entertainment.

If you don't teach your children responsibility now, who will? Their future employer?

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), April 24, 2002.

Dear Ann----- I have been that future employer for 40 years now /in small businesses-----& can not believe how many can not even fill out a job application!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you ever applied for a job with me & couldn't even fill out a job application--- I did take time out /of my busy routine to at least teach you the proper way to fill out the NEXT job application!!!!!!!

I have been totally appauled that parents--the school system /or some one has not taught all these people how to even fill out a job application---let alone a job resume!!!

I agree--if you live in town /or the country----teach your children resonability NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Teach them how to follow instruction!!!!!!!!!!! Teach them how to follow through!!!!! Teach them how to work alone!!!!! Teach them self respect---& what trust/ honor & reliability are!!!!

Wow---------sorry----does it show I have trained one toooo many who were not taught anything before comming to work for me----ha!!

If you love your children------teach them the basics now!!!!! It will be the best you can provide for them in the future!!! Everyone wants to know their children can make it on their own later in life!!!!

-- Sonda in Ks. (sgbruce@birch.net), April 24, 2002.

It's so interesting to see that all the people here agree that our children need to learn responsibility. We are a Christian homeschooling, homesteading family -and chores make up a very special time of our day! They get to visit our "girls" *the chickens* and check for eggs, I need an actual schedule to decide who does this and when. I recently decided to do a weekly household duties sheet. What a fantastic blessing that has turned out to be. At dinner time every night, my 3 yr old has to help set the table. You talk about a little boy with pride! He can carry TWO plates at once! The older 3 (ranging 4-8) each have a night where they are mommy's "kitchen helper" They help get things ready, pass me things..mash potatoes - these sort of things, and it is just there time-with me. Not only are they a tremendous help, but they are learning. They can't wait until it is their night.

My point is actually this :) I have friends who think we are cruel parents, imposing "work" on our dear little children, when they already work so hard, and are away from friends and "civilization" all day. We go there, and their 8 yr old son is on the floor having a temper tantrum *a HUGE kicking the floorscreaminghysterically* one. My son looked at him and wondered why he would do that. Can't he just say please? It was over the "dickie dee" icecream bike going by. But then they come here...and they never want to leave. The horses and ponies, the trees to climb...trails to run on. It is another life! I have threatened my children once with "fake school" as they call it. They do not want to go back, they love it at home. Therefore, I have no doubt that we have made the right decision.

Cathy...I live in Eastern Ontario also....Near Belleville. Where are you? Aimee~

-- aimeegosse (aimeegosse@hotmail.com), April 25, 2002.

Sonda you hit the nail right on the head. I had a meltdown yesterday after the third or fourth ADILT in one day (related to scouts and ball) told me the most unbelievable unresponsible things:

"I didn't know we were supposed to be there at that time" (whole group waited for an hour for one person who was told one on one, and given written instructions.

"I didn't know I had to pay for myself and my extra child to go to the museum and imax" Frequent freeloaders who try to have others pay their way, don't reimburse troop, bounce checks....

"The police are harassing my husband and I"--for being stopped for driving with a totally broken windshield, for driving with a suspended license, for not showing up for previous court dates.

Man, people with no responsibility drive me nuts. If you have a job to do--do it. If you don't do it--own up.

You may think this is off topic, but I believe Sonda showed that the "proof is in the pudding."

"Oh, well I forgot" is not an excuse that will get you far in our house--because it will get you nowhere fast in the business world!

If a child "forgets" to do something they are responsible for, they are still expected to do it--it might even mean fewer minutes for other things.

Responsibility Does PAY--big time. People like Sonda will Pay extra for someone they know they can trust and count on. Isn't that something we should want for our children and they should want for themselves.

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), April 26, 2002.

"I didn't know I had to pay for myself and my extra child to go to the museum and imax" Frequent freeloaders who try to have others pay their way, don't reimburse troop, bounce checks....

Ann, are you talking about people who are just showing up because there is extra space in the bus, or???

Reason I ask, is that, if there are a few extra spaces in the bus, and the people are attending, no strings attached, they should pay. If the parent is expected to be a chaperone or more likely, a babsitter given the behavior of many children today, yes, they should pay for the extra child, but not for themselves, the organization should pick up the cost there. The schools out here are always asking for volunteers for this or that field trip, and one way to show appreciation would be to pick up the cost of a ticket.

If the parents failed to reimburse, or bounced checks, I'd boot 'em, end of problem.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 26, 2002.

GT: unfortunately under our girl scout council rules, we may not spend troop money for unregistered adults or children. It may have something to do with insurance, but I'm not sure.

Yes, their parents can be paid for if they volunteer and register as leaders. But we are unable to pay for unregistered parents and siblings out of troop funds. Our bank accounts statements and financial report sheets show how money was taken in and spent.

Last activity they said they were going, tickets were paid for the activity and dinner and they didn't show up--no phone call, nothing. All the girls in the troop had to share in this cost that was lost.

I am not the leader at this time-- but had this happen when I was one. I had to ask for deposits ahead of time, because people would not show up (no phone call either) to things that added up to a lot of money over time.

If one of the parents don't pay for the cookies they have ordered and taken--who do you think they will go after? The leader. In fact I met someone yesterday who volunteers as an attorney for a girl scout council whose job is to go after leaders whose TROOPS as a whole don't pay. Some cases they lose their homes.

I don't make the rules, I was expected to follow them here where I live.

This is how it works in the real world--lets say you buy a ticket to see a sold out concert. You don't show up for the concert and then two weeks later tell the arena you want your money back because you were decided to go out to dinner with friends.

You won't get your money back. Why do people think it's any different in organizations their kids are involved in.

Last week, there was an international activity where one of the moms made costumes for everyone--she volunteered her precious time and paid for the cost out of her own pocket. One of the kids didn't show up, no call--later the child's mom said she was asked to spend the night with a friend and decided that would be "more fun".

I think it is really selfish to take the time and money from another person because you, at the last moment, get an offer that appeals to you more. That is common courtesy.

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), April 26, 2002.

How sad to have to deal with such people, Ann. And how unfair to go after the leaders as opposed to the guilty parties. What's sad is that the rules you speak of certainly must discourage people from joining as well.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 26, 2002.