If I were to buy another Leica body anytime soon (since I find the M7 to be too expenisve for what it offers) this would probably be it. I'm quite keen on trying the new Bessar R2 here wonderfully described at Gandy's Cameraquest.com site.

-- pat (modlabs@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002

Answers

Oddly enough, I have the exactly the same thought since yesterday after receiving my latest prints. The rangefinder flares way too often on my 0.85 TTL and the 1/50 sync speed is far too slow for daylight fill flash - the background is almost completely washed out even at f/11. (Slower film won't help since my non-TTL flash has limited auto f/stops.)

If the R2 had a higher-mag finder (90mm lens not easy for me even with 0.85), I'd replace my M6 TTL with in a flash. (pun intended)

-- Andrew (mazurka@rocketmail.com), April 22, 2002.

that's why I picked up a Canon EOS Elan 7 with their excellent 100/2.8 USM Macro last well. There are certain things a rangefinder does well, other things I prefer a different tool.

-- pat (modlabs@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002.

As said by others before. This is the camera that Leica should of built. For potential first time Leica buyers, those that want to try rangefinder photography, and for existing rangefinder photographers, like myself, that want to use Leica glass and don't want to pay a small fortune for a body. More importantly a large amount of camera sales are to people who already own Leica M cameras and want a 2nd or 3rd body. The R2 at is a nice compliment to either a M2/M3/M4 user who wants another body and gets "in house" metering and to a M6 user who wants another body,with certain advantages over the M6 at 1/3rd the price. While it probably won't put Leica out of business it certainlly will limit sales and growth. Because of this I think an avenue of growth for Leica might be in the M mount lenses. More M mount bodies out there, whether Leica or otherwise, means the need for more lenses.

-- Gerry Widen (gwiden@alliancepartners.org), April 22, 2002.

Hello,

For having had the Bessa R2 in hands at the recent Paris Show, let say it is nicely crafted, light but sturdy. Of course, in poor light, the Bessa is weak. However for every day or street photography, it is less intrusive, a wonderful tool.

Tempting but, ahem, I've got 3 cameras (R7, Minox 35, Rollei 35) plus a PnS Digital Olympus. That's already too many, I prefer to concentrate on buying film. Cheers

-- Xavier d'Alfort (hot_billexf@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002.

As I posted in response to Pat's posting on the LEG, I think the R2 could be a very viable entry-level alternative to the M6 (new or used). However, what I would personally like to see is Konica putting out a high mag 0.85 Hexar RF. But I'm now in the same position as Xavier (but w/even more cameras)--I need to start buying more film (while they're still making the stuff!).

-- Chris Chen (furcafe@NOSPAMcris.com), April 22, 2002.

this is all nuts. for the $500-$600 bucks an r2 will cost you, you can buy a user m2 or m4-2 (o.k. maybe it will cost you $650-700). it is a much nicer camera, with a higher mag RF, etc etc. PLUS, if you end up liking the leica system, you can ALWAYS sell your used leica for what you paid for it, and buy an m7 or whatever. you'd be lucky to get half what you paid for a used r2. now, having said all that, next march, when bessa comes out with the r3 -- an r2 with AE -- i will be first in line to buy one.

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), April 22, 2002.

I can't help wonder why Cosina did not use a longer effective baselength rangefinder, unless it was impossible to do so without re- engineering the mechanical layout of their generic chassis on which the Bessas are built. The only downside to the Bessa R2 (and its a biggie, enough to stop me from ever considering buying one)is that it is not up to focusing a 135.

Today I would not advise anyone to spend $700 on a meter-less beater M4-2 or M4-P that most likely will soon require a $250 overhaul. With prices of new Hexar RF's well under $1000 and prices of late- model M6's likely to stay in the $1000-1100 range, they make much more sense.

As to why Leica did not build a Bessa R2? It wouldn't bring new people into the Leica brand, it would simply detract from sales of the M6 and M7, and deflate used prices across the board, thus undermining the holds-its-value rationale for Leica buyers. Face it, how many people avoid the Bessa R2 (and buy used Leicas instead)only because (if they're honest with themselves) it isn't a Leica. Being further honest, if Leica offered a re-badged Hexar RF alongside the M7, how many people would still buy the M7?

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), April 22, 2002.

An earlier poster mentioned that the R2 is not usable in low-light shooting.

What did he mean by that? Can anyone shed light?

I'm actually saving up for a used M6TTL as my second Leica purchase (I own an M6 classic). I shoot in low-light all the time. The R2 looked tempting until that poster mentioned the low-light issue.

-- victor (danzfotog@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002.

"An earlier poster mentioned that the R2 is not usable in low-light shooting" It wasn't me that said it, and I think it is not entirely an accurate statement. The rangefinder base is kind of short for using fast lenses wide open at near range distances. The metal shutter is also not as vibration free as the Leica cloth shutter. I think a more accurate comment would be that "the R2 will probably not be as good as a low light shooter as a Leica M because of the short rengefinder base and the shutter design".

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), April 22, 2002.

The rangefinder base is kind of short for using fast lenses wide open at near range distances.

This is not entirely true. It is long enough to focus 50/1.4 accurately (and 35/1.4 of course), but this is as good as this RF can do. I used 50/1.5 Nokton on Bessa-R body near min. focus distance without any problems. However 75/1.4, 90/2.8 and 90/2 and anything longer are out of question.

-- Alexander Grekhov (grekhov@wgukraine.com), April 22, 2002.

So, in other words, if I shoot dance with the R2 under performance settings, I shouldn't use the R2 for a 90mm summicron, but it should be fine with my 35 and 50 summicrons?

Just want to make sure before I go and spend what I have saved (for a Leica M6TTL) on an R2 (Isnt' it funny how a little saved money just calls your name wanting to be spent?)

-- victor (danzfotog@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002.

victor, i would hold off buying one of these until you've inspected it thoroughly and read some more review. but it sure does seem like a good value

-- pat (modlabs@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002.

Victor: the R2 is essentially the same camera as the R, with the addition of metal top and bottoms, brass fittings and the M mount.

Alex: Cosina offers a 3.5/90 for the Bessas and it's only 2/3 stop slower than a 90mm Elmarit. Is the R/R2's rangefinder really not able to cope with that difference? No offence, but have you tried using a 90mm Elmarit on the Bessa R?

-- Andrew (mazurka@rocketmail.com), April 23, 2002.

From a cosmetic point of view, the Bessa's are ugly, they should take a leaf from the cool, sexy lines of the M body... ooohhh yeahhh

-- Karl Yik (karl.yik@dk.com), April 23, 2002.

People are discussing fast lens focus the same way they discuss DOF-- as if it's some sort of yes/no absolute, which it's not. I'd like to hear some real-world experience with too-fast lenses on the R by someone who actually knows how to focus a camera (!), and the results, not another theoretical discussion on what "should" be.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

Sexy lines of an M body? It's a box.

-- Mark Ciccarello (mark@ciccarello.com), April 23, 2002.

Victor wrote:
So, in other words, if I shoot dance with the R2 under performance settings, I shouldn't use the R2 for a 90mm summicron, but it should be fine with my 35 and 50 summicrons?

Correct.

Andrew wrote: Cosina offers a 3.5/90 for the Bessas and it's only 2/3 stop slower than a 90mm Elmarit. Is the R/R2's rangefinder really not able to cope with that difference?

I never uset 90/2.8 and made my comment on the "safe" side. The possible insufficience of Bessa's RF base length may show up at minimal focusing distance. I woud suspect 90/2.8 to focus as accurate as 90/3.5 at "normal" shooting distances.

No offence, but have you tried using a 90mm Elmarit on the Bessa R?

None taken. This is technically impossible, because Bessa-R is an LSM body. R2 is another story, but I don't have it yet. Anyone wants black M6 "Classic"?

-- Alexander Grekhov (grekhov@wgukraine.com), April 23, 2002.

Alex: the LTM version of the 90mm Elmarit was produced from 1959-63.

-- Andrew (mazurka@rocketmail.com), April 24, 2002.