Homeschooling question.....what to do with husband?

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No I don't need to know where to bury the body(already got that spot picked out). I need to know how to convince him that I don't need to homeschool from 8am to 3pm and run my household like a military school! I do think that I should be teaching math and assigning books for the childrens enrichment but I want to drop the rest of this nonsense. I have not diagramed sentences since 9th grade....I look at it as an unnecessary skill as long as the kids are familiar with basic sentence structure and their writing is in complete sentences(lots of this stuff will never be used in life). I would like to loosen up some and have the kids do more stuff on their own. Both of my kids are bright as they can be and I'm fairly sure that if they were put in public school they would be way ahead(ok I'm not so sure about the 13 yr old....not much that can be done until the hormone level evens out..lol). The way he is wanting me to school them is driving me nuts and taking up all my time grading and listening to the kids whine. Especially my son is an oral learner....he does much better when we discuss things rather than him trying to learn it from a book(he remembers it just long enough to pass the assignment then forgets it). My daughter is just opposite....I have to make her quit reading(I could leave her alone and she would do just fine). I especially want to hear from homeschool dad's....maybe one man would listen to another....he sure isn't listening to me.

-- Amanda (mrsgunsmyth@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002

Answers

The only reason I can think of for learning to diagram is if you are planning to teach them a foreign language later. I am a former English teacher (ten years) who got smart, and now I am an art teacher. MUCH less stress.

The problem with the argument of "they won't use this in life" is that we cannot predict our children's future career moves or the whims of the market, the government, or politics.

We may all be subsistance farming after a nuclear event, or we may be the Jetsons in ten years. No way to know.

The reason most schools run from 8 to 3 is that we spend over 50% of the time telling the kids to sit down and be quiet, class changes, lunch, potty trips that take 20 minutes due to the detour to the snack machines, etc.

I recommend instead of just burying the body, you use him for compost. What he is trying to get you to do is already organic fertilizer.

HUGGS

-- Rose (open_rose@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.


Rose, your comment reminded me about the "Sister Mary Elephant" song (Cheech and Chong) I used to listen to on Dr. Demento...."claaa-as, claaa-as, claa-as, SHUT UP!"

Amanda, you might want to actually teach to some tests for a while (GED, SAT, ACT) if what you're husband is really concerned about is whether they will get into college at some point in time.

Since a foreign language is mandatory only for schools, let them learn diagramming then. By the way, I read some studies a while back that showed that learning Latin improved not only your English but learning other languages (probably because all the "Romance languages", Spanish, French, etc. are Latin derivatives) as well.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 21, 2002.


I love it!!! As one who has in the past fervently wished my husband would just go plow the garden or something I had to giggle.

Okay, sentence diagramming. When my son, who was home schooled for his entire elementary/secondary career, was having trouble with parts of speech, I remembered diagramming as useful. Believe it or not, I hunted up a college text that taught it (our local librarian gave me the book because no one else ever checked it out), used it to teach sentence structure and that's the only English book we ever used. It worked miracles. He is now a college junior, majoring in English. So, even that has it's place.

We became less structured as time went on but my husband didn't understand this and, yes, it was difficult to explain why we'd finished school for the day at 11 AM or why I considered a walk in the woods as science, etc. On the other hand, if he needed someone to help him, he couldn't seem to understand why "school" should interfere.

Our best years of homeschooling were those when we were so unstructured that it was hard to actually see school happening. Those were good, though I think the early structured lessons were necessary to set our pace and get the basics.

-- Rosalie (Dee) in IN (deatline@globalsite. net), April 21, 2002.


Amanda, tell ole boy to back off. I'm sure he's just worried that the kids will do well in the world, but military disipline is just what kids don't need. Structure is important as to chores, allot time for this and time for that. But learning is stop and go. I'm sure you've found your kids finding something interesting and going ape trying to find more information about a particular subject. And not finding enough at the local library about it! Then there are those subjects (math for me even though I was a banker for 23 years) that you have to MAKE them learn. By the way, business math is more useful than any algebra ever was and is more interesting too! If your children are curious about the world and you let them learn at their own pace, they'll view learning as fun, not a chore. As long as they have covered the basics, are socialized, can hold their own in any conversation (which means listenening as well as speaking) and know HOW to learn they'll be fine. As I always tell my students in whatever I'm teaching about computers at the time, you don't have to KNOW all about a subject, but you DO need to know how to FIND the knowledge you don't know. Reference books and libraries are the key.

Oh, and be able to eat in public without you being embarassed. My parents made sure, even though they came from poor folk, that we were comfortable in any situation. What fork to use in a formal setting, how to appear interested in a conversation with a pompous individual without letting your grin show, etc. It's self confidence that counts.

Dennis

-- Dennis Enyart (westwoodcaprine@yahoo.com), April 21, 2002.


What does your state require of children. Is there a minimum number of hours required to be in school? How does that apply to home schoolers? Your times may be limited.

-- Gary (gws@columbus.rr.com), April 21, 2002.


If you decide your picked out spot isn't just right I always have the back 70 we can use .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

I was very lucky that I had teachers that taught me to be a good reader. By being able to read one can teach themselves about anything.By having the ability to understand what I read I have been able to give myself alot more education after I left school than I received in high school or college.Rarely a day goes by I don't pick up a book and educate myself a little more.Teach them the joy of reading and the rest will follow.

-- Gary (burnett_gary@msn.com), April 21, 2002.

Dennis, I agree with everything you said. Especially the part about math and polite table manners!!!

-- Michelle Thomas (mpthomas83@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

My youngest daughter learned how to diagram sentences in the first grade. I was amazed that the kids in her class went from learning their ABC's in kindergarten, to not just reading sentences, BUT diagramming sentences the following year. I taught my daughter to read before she entered kindergarten, but some of the children were starting from scratch. Their minds are like little sponges, ready to learn.

-- cowgirlone in ok (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

I suggest that you consider using objective data, rather than subjective opinion, to determine the best teaching methods for your children.

For example, the solution is to have your kids take a standardized achievement test every year (Stanford 9TA, Otis Lennon, etc.). The results will give you and your husband a good indication of their academic achievement compared to other kids of the same age across the nation. If they are doing well, then your husband will be more likely to approve of your teaching methods. If they don't do well, then you can use the data to make the necessary changes.

My kids are homeschooled, too. We use the data from annual standardized testing to determine how well we, as our childrens'teachers, are doing, as well as how our children are doing as students compared to other kids their same age.

-- Liz Rhein (merhein@shentel.net), April 21, 2002.



Shoot Amanda, tell him he is correct, but.......... "Geeze honey, I really don't know how I am going to be able to do it, perhaps you could do it for a week to show lil ole me how?" Let him do it for a week on his own, you go out and tend to the animals and garden. He will soon see what a waste of time all the busy work he wants them to do is! He has the typical public school mentality of what school should be, ask him why he wants you to home school if he wants to mimic public school? What is wrong with public school is the MIND NUMBING buzy work!! I think math should be a structured subject, I used Saxton to bolster my sons math skills for public school, but science is much better learned hands-on in the garden or barn, so is health! Reading books they like, then doing book reports on them is great for writing skills, then using miss-spelled words from the reports for spelling, and words that they don't know from the books for vocabulary. The greatest gift you can give your child is a love of reading, be it sci-fi or trash novels, as long as they read.

Hopefully your opinion carries equal weight? Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002.


The whole idea behind home schooling is that we believe that public schools are NOT the best way to learn. I was homeschooled, one hour every morning, I chose my subjects (with guidance), worked at my own pace, and enjoyed it. My father was always reading to us, but never taught us to read unless we asked to learn, or learnt on our own. I think we knew all about the galaxy and the lifecycle of a sun before I was eight, just from listening to my father talking while we drove somewhere. That is the way to learn - we didn't even know we were learning, we kept him going be asking questions.

I am now majoring in English, and I have never had any trouble at school after being home schooled. I was way ahead in some areas.

To wrap up, you don't need to sit down to learn. Day to day life is more important and can be far more educational than chaining someone to a desk. I've done it all: homeschool, private alternative school, public alternative, public elementary, public high, correspondance, etc. Homeschooling was the most fun.

-- Chenoa (ganter@primus.ca), April 22, 2002.


Does hubby stay home with you or go away to work?

If he is at home maybe if he ran school for awhile and sees how the kids get fried on that routine,.. maybe??? Or would the power go to his head?

If he goes away to work do what we did, hubby thought I might pitter out on "the whole school thing" So I had to be rather straight laced at first (plus I was adjusting as well and still thought I had to do it all). [At least he was smart enough to realize that they didn't have to go to 3 because they weren't doing recess, music, computor, etc.] But this year we started loosening up a lot, I didn't really tell him much at first. Although I was honest if asked I didn't volunteer much except the parts he wanted to hear. When he saw how well the kids were doing, the lack of frustration, the feeling of accomplishment, without a lack of growth, THEN I snuck in here and there the benifits of how much better they were really doing by gradually letting up on some things.

He saw it then agreed. We decided that math and grammer/langauge skills were paramount, then HOW to find info, several resources to explore, and lot's of books! ALL kinds books to expose them to a huge variety of ideas, styles etc. My second grader has read the whole Harry potter set, the first 5 Laura Ingalls, and several Misc. since Christmas. Son was a flop in math but now is very comfortable with the basic concepts. They both use words like aproaching, apparently,inapropriate, and so on.

That way they find their education interesting and worthy, instead of a drudge that they are forced into, don't end up caring much about,and will not retain. It also makes their education their own. For instance: Yesterday, Daddy had to kill a small critter that was activly trying to get the chickens. Instead of saying "Hmmm, I wonder that was?" and walking away, the kids started running around grabbing books. Since we own ferrets we knew it was in the weasel family, but what? They had to figure which books might lead them in the direction.... After an hour of still enthusiastic hunting we had to turn to the computor for an encyclopedia. We finally ended up finding out it was least weasel, from the family of mammals called Mustlidae (distantly related to even skunks) Judging from his size, the time of year, and the fact that he should not really been out in the daytime we determined he was just newly away from his mother. Nope, no learning going on in this house! And on a Sunday evening too!

-- Novina in ND (homespun@stellarnet.com), April 22, 2002.


My, my what attitudes that we are seeing here.

Amanda I presume that y'all produced those children *together* in the customary way did you not?

Why then should your husband and the father of those children not be interested in how they are educated?

Homeschooling is a family project and at least in the beginning should be a program of negotiated compromise. Once you both have a feel for each other's ideas and methods you can then begin to adjust matters as necessary. I'm willing to bet that you'll both have very much different ideas after the first year or two.

Liz Rhein makes a very good sugggestion in using standardized tests to measure progress. You may not like those tests but it's a certainty that they are used the nation over and when the time comes for your kids to leave home they are going to have to cope with them. You may think you've done an outstanding job of education but if they can't *show* they're at least as well educated as the subset of their peers that they're competing against when they all take the same test they'll be coming back home to stay with you while their better educated peers get that college slot.

Personally, I'd rather take a beating than diagram a sentence. That particular part of education will be carried out by my wife who happens to be a credentialed Latin teacher. You cannot learn to write or speak Latin well without having a firm grasp of English grammar which then makes it a sight easier to learn those languages largely descended from or influenced by Latin like Spanish, French, Italian and so on.

Don't short your kids on math either. A great deal of the sciences uses algebra as a fundamental and vital tool to carry out their work. A child that receives a well rounded education needs BOTH algebra (and related mathematics) and business math. Ken once posted an excellent "homesteader's mathematics" quiz that contained a lot of the kinds of math problems that many of us homesteaders have to contend with on at least an occasional basis. As I recall about half of those questions needed to be solved algebraically (even if we didn't know we were using algebra to solve them!)

For what it's worth I'll be doing most of the education for my children until they hit their junior high school years when my wife will begin to segue into taking over more of the higher maths, foreign languages and advanced grammar. She's much more concerned with what the state requires in the way of record keeping than I am, while I'm much more concerned with being able to objectively measure results and in several years of discussing this we're slowly hammering out the beginnings of our homeschool program. Actually, we've already started since there's no reason to wait until the child is of traditional school age to begin. She won't be three until August but she's already mastered most of the skills the state says kids should have before they begin pre-K.

It took my wife a couple of years to even convince me that we should homeschool and the reasons I ultimately decided to sign on to the project are not the same as hers. My approach, attitude and philosphy are not the same as hers but we've been discussing and hammering it out for a couple of years now and have reached an understanding of at least how we're going to begin. I'm sure the whole thing will evolve as we progress through the years of our children's education. Can't say it's been a smooth flow but we're getting there.

........Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), April 22, 2002.


I agree that you should leave it to him for a week. Who knows, you could both learn something. He has every right to be concerned about his kid's education, but not to give you orders.

That said, why are your kids, in their teens, not learning a foreign language? You are already past the optimal age for this, and they need to understand english grammar in order to learn one. Many colleges and professions require this, and it is always to your advantage to be able to communicate with members of other cultures. I would skip over sentence diagramming and go straight to a foreign language - maybe more than one.

-- Sharon in NY (astyk@brandeis.edu), April 22, 2002.



Alan, "took your wife a couple of years to convince you". So where is this, "we had the kids together" stuff coming from when it sounds as if you have the final word? Only homeschooling after you were convinced? Just an observation. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002.

Vickie,

That's right it did take my wife a couple of years to convince me of the wisdom of homeschooling. She actually started her campaign before our daughter was even conceived.

Did I have the final word? Well, I suppose it's all in the way that you look at it. There may be those parents who have school age kids that are homeschooling where both parents are working full-time day jobs off the homestead but even among homeschoolers they seem to be thin on the ground.

For most of us who want to homeschool it means that one parent has to stay home to do the job. In modern day 21st century America that's a huge undertaking if one of the spouses isn't making a large enough salary for the other to stay home. That's the situation with us. One of us is going to have to give up their job to stay home and educate the kids (and keep the house and so on and so on). The plain facts of both of our present career fields and our chances for significant improvement in earnings over the next five to ten years are such that I am the one who should be staying home to educate our children. I was not at all receptive to this idea in the beginning but with patient effort she eventually managed to talk myself into it. Yes, I could work evenings or nights while she kept her greater potential day job but neither of us liked that option. In fact, we did that for several years while we were dating and after we got married and really came to dislike the "I never see you unless we're asleep and alternate Saturdays" routine this forced us into.

So yes, in a manner of speaking I did have the final word. I'm the one making the major sacrifice to carry out this undertaking which she could not dictate that I do no more than I could do the same to her.

As we all know, homeschooling is no small undertaking - it's years of patient effort and dedicated resolve which involves the entire family. No one spouse should be able to just say "do it" and commit the entire family. If both parents aren't fully on board with the idea then you've set yourself a hard road to travel before you've even made the first step.

………Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), April 22, 2002.


Thankyou for all the responses. I never should have mentioned diagraming sentences.....it was just an example of a bone of contention between us. My children can do sentence diagramming. I just didn't want to go into the really advanced diagramming that is in my book. I didn't feel it would benefit them. Hubby HAS schooled them. Matter of fact he did it all last week. The kids and I are still a nervous wreck! I couldn't convince him that the load he put on them would make college age kids balk. Hubby wasn't very good at school. I was totally opposite...I made A honor role without trying and rarely had to study for tests. He was in detention most of the time until he finally told all his teachers that he would pick up his assignments on Monday and turn them in on Friday...otherwise if they wanted him he would be at the shop building. Now you would think that this would make him not as hard on the kids....wrong! He missed a lot of stuff in school and now wishes he'd of paid attention so he is very hard on the kiddos. By the way he does support me homeschooling....wouldn't have it any other way. We just disagree on the methods that should be used. He is very involved in their school work(almost too involved...he is home half of the day). He has been so hard on my son especially, that he has gotten to the point where he says....well Dad is gonna yell at me/not be happy with my work/etc....so why should I even try? Both of my kids are very praise driven. I just need some convincing arguments to get him to relax a bit and let me do what needs to be done without him giving me a headache all the time. I really don't want to unschool...just be a bit more relaxed than we have been. I've been homeschooling for about 6 yrs now so this isn't just having trouble at first. We've been doing it his way for those 6 yrs and when I can do it my way I see improvement(I get to do it my way when the kids and I make long trips). My kids look at school as torture and learning as something to be endured....they are way too bright for that!.

-- Amanda (mrsgunsmyth@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002.

once again, i'm writing after everyone has had their say, LOL.

i would go ahead and teach them sentence diagraming, even if it means you having learning more than you know ahead of time to teach them. it is very important, it does aid with foreign languages, and helps one sound more eloquent in any form of compostition. if your kids ever want to go to college, most colleges require at least 3 years of a foreign language for admittance. some even require a minimum of 4 years. latin is a plus--major plus. it's relatively easy and suddenly the english language makes more sense...!

-- C (punk_chicadee@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002.


btw, this is typical behaviour of fathers. there's not one kid i know who feels like their father isn't pressuring them to be all they can be in school, because their fathers slacked off in their school work. parents always try to live their lives the way they should've through their children (there's a word for that...i forget what it is tho...hhhhheeehhhhhhhh.......). don't think it's out of the ordinary...you kids will naturally get exhasperated and may have a slight touch of senioritis early in their schooling. just talk to the hubby and explain the situation as it is (if you haven't already) and assure him that the kids are capable of learning with as much enthusiasm as is possible with out being pressured to school for innumerable hours throughout the day. if he feels that the kids aren't trying their best...he should know that loading on the pressure more, especially on you is not going to motivate them any more. teenagers think with a different part of the brain than adults do (i'm serious--but that's a whole different topic) because of the changes their bodies are going through, thus view things differently, so more than likely he's not getting thru to them with the "education is good for you, do your best." it is great that he supports you and is involved with their schooling, that is one of the best things a dad and husband can do. if you kids are getting discouraged because they don't think their dad will ever be pleased with their work, and they are praise driven, you might want to remind your hubby that giving them the impression that their work is somehow, someway insufficient (which i'm sure he doesn't feel that way at all-- teenagers can get that message from any slightly edgy tone of voice, however) will drive them farther away from wanting to do work and will encourage them to withdraw into a shell of rebellion. you might think that i'm stretching that a little far...but i was there not too long ago. :) it'll all work out trust me. this is a normal part of life. cheer up...

-- C (punk_chicadee@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002.

Get a copy of "The Teenage Liberation Handbook" (Grace Llewellyn) and leave it in your reading room (the john).

-- Sandie now in MA (thompson@greatpoint.net), April 23, 2002.

Yup.....teenage liberation and unschooling!!!! I can't imagine any other way for us. My daughter is 18 and now doing Uncollege, too. I think she turned out pretty well ;-) She has some unschool/uncollege pages. On the site map look up everything that begins with college to see her stuff..... http://peaceandcarrots.homestead.com/IndexSiteMap.html

-- Peace and Carrots Farm, Vermont (wsm311@aol.com), April 23, 2002.

Hubby HAS schooled them. Matter of fact he did it all last week...By the way he does support me homeschooling....wouldn't have it any other way. We just disagree on the methods that should be used. He is very involved in their school work...I just need some convincing arguments to get him to relax a bit and let me do what needs to be done without him giving me a headache all the time... I've been homeschooling for about 6 yrs now so this isn't just having trouble at first. We've been doing it his way for those 6 yrs and when I can do it my way I see improvement(I get to do it my way when the kids and I make long trips)...

-- Amanda (mrsgunsmyth@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002.

Ah so, much is revealed. There are many pertinent facts that were not included in your first post.

OK, what I'd suggest you do is this:

Nail your husband to a chair (figuratively speaking!) when he seems to be in a receptive frame of mind and put the proposal to him that he give you six weeks to try education your way. At the end of that six weeks he can test the children. If they can objectively demonstrate that they've learned more and/or faster your way than they have by the old methods he'll then give you six months to educate the kids your way at which time he'll test the kids again. If they have maintained the amount and rate of learning that they demonstrated in the first six weeks then your way will become the way that education will be done from then on. If not you'll shut up and stick with what has been proven to work.

Do this sound like a fair and viable test?

.......Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), April 24, 2002.


amanda- i agree with alan's last post. try to get your husband to agree to a trial period where the kids can relax a little-children should enjoy learning. i don't homeschool-my husband is opposed to it-"new, different, etc" but i do know that most children, especially boys need support, not drilling and criticism from dad. how long has it been since they had a "break" from their schooling? maybe a few days vacation is needed? Have them grade each other's papers as much as possible. surely the older child can grade some of the younger, and it'll help reinforce, too. but, please, do try to sit down with him and discuss it-if the kids get to hating school, they'll learn to turn themselves off and quit-not a good thing most of the time.

-- laura (okgoatgal@hotmail.com), April 24, 2002.

Amanda--I homeschooled my daughter from first grade through high school. We never diagrammed a sentence. We never used an English textbook. All we did was read and write and talk a lot about what we read. She got a perfect score on the verbal portion of the SAT. Need I say more? Tell your husband to stop worrying so much!

Jeanne

-- Jeanne (jhavlicek@hotmail.com), April 25, 2002.


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