I recently found this area of CountrySide site, and read the alpaca postings with disbelief. I understand that there is so little alpaca information available (one of the reasons I am almost finished writing my books on this animal and the Industry), but the answers that were offered here are so off the mark.

I grew up in the horse and cattle industries in southern WI, so I am no stranger to livestock/husbandry. I have watched this Industry since 1996, and didn't begin purchasing until 2001. Granted, for some reason most of the major peopl involved in thei Industry insis on reinventing the wheel on a lot of the ideas and "rules", and I am hoping to get in there and change some of that...but for the most part, the alpaca is a great animal, and the only good animal to get involved with investment-wise.

Emu Ostrich and llamas never made investment sense to me because witht he birds, they had to be killed to reap the product. Llamas are beasts of burden, and unless one does hiking, or packing, they are not much use. They are also large animals, and can overpower a human being.

The alpaca industry is far from being a flash in the pan idea, nor anything close to anything "Dot.com". The alpaca and the industry has been steadily and healthily growing since 1983. Average size of females are under 5 feet at the top of the head, and weight of about 125-150 pounds. Males are a little taller, and weight can be up to about 200 - 225 pounds. The fiber is the main product and goal in the breeding program of the owner/breeder, and the alpaca can produce over 11 pounds a year. The fiber qualities of alpacas are far superior to sheep in that the thermal properties are 10 times better, the alpaca produces the strongest animal fiber in the world (with the exception of mohair), alpaca fiber contains little or no guard hair which gives it little or no "prickle factor", there is no grease where sheep's wool contains lanolin which is what most people are allergic to. Because of this, alpaca fiber is naturally hypoallergenic. Micron count on alpaca in ancient times was as fine as 11 micron. There have been some produced here in the US as fine as high 15's and mid 16's. How do I know? I own such an animal. The average seems to currently run in the low to mid 20's. Lamb's wool isn't anywhere near this low of micron. The alpaca is the only fiber producing animal that naturally come in 32 Internationally labelled colors, and 16 US Alpaca Registry recognized colors. On the commercial fiber production level, in order to even begin to satisfy the supply required for the garment production demand, between 80,000 and 100,000 animals are necessary to produce that quantity of fiber. Currently, the US count is 37,000. Granted, currently the major money involved is for breeding stock, but handsome financial rewards are paid for fine fiber from the alpaca at the mill. Alpacas are naturally environmentally friendly since thy have padded feet which are easy in the ground, not hooves that tear up the land. Their lips are such that allow the grass to be cut, not uprooted from being pulled. Up to 10 alpacas can be raised on an acre. Even the small breeder can make money from the fiber being sold to hand spinners.

Llamas are great for packing, hiking, and being used as the beast of burden and meat. Their fiber has a lot of guard hair, making it prickly to wear. In South America, the llama had been crossbred to alpacas in order to bring up the quality of fiber, creating huarizo animals, but huarizos are not allowed in the Alpacas registry, and are (or were) allowed into the Llama registry. Llamas and alpacas have virtually opposite demeanors; with the alpaca being far easier to get along with. I'm not saying ALL llamas are nasty, and ALL alapcas are sweet... you will have exceptions to each of these rules, but that is why you will see Llamas being used as guard animals, and rarely, if ever see alpacas being used as guard animals for the herd. It is not generally in their nature to be agressive. Alpacas spit far less, generally, unless you get in the middle of a spit-fest at the feed bin. I have done a search onthe Internet for the highest selling Llama, with the results turning up $32,000. This is good to see for those who have stuck by the Llama industry from the onset; especially since as of a few months ago, I had 7 llamas offered to me for free. But within the past 7 months, there have been two awesome animals sold. One for $250,000, and another for $265,000. Others have been $160,000, in the $90K, and $70K ballparks. Not all sell for this, but it is happening more often for outstanding quality alpacas. Farm size is no indication of animal quality, as I know of farms of all sizes that I wouldn't own an alpaca from their place if they gave it to me. Ethics, integrity, and honesty are everything to me, and like other livestock/animal industried can be hard ulities to find. Who one does business with is just as important, if not moreso, as the quality of animal being considered for purchase.

In all honesty, there is a lot of hype, and a lot of things to be cautioned on about these animals, and for anyone thinking about getting involved with the alpaca and the Industry. That is why a consultant who knows the genetic/congenital history of the alpaca bloodlines and not just a consultant who "knows a good animal when they see one" is so important. These animals are a good investment, and will continue to be a good investment for decades to come, providing you know what you are doing and know what to go for and what to avoid - and this is the same with any investment/industry. No other animal produces the quality of product that is in such high demand. Like any other investment, one should not invest any more than what they cabn afford to possibly lose. Nothing is without risk. I personaly like this investment better than others because I have more of a direct control over the market, and performance than some broker/trader hoping some company makes money. Through ethical and sound breeding practices I have direct control over the product produced and such, and through quality, there is demand.

I tell it like it is, both the good and the bad in this industry. I am not like the majority of the advertising for the alapca, that only want people to see the "huggable investment" aspect, and paint rose-colored pictures of this animal and some of the people involved. What I try to prevent is people being mislead in thinking all is lovely. I really don't like breeders who don't tell the whole story to those who want to make an educated decision; I try to give both sides.

Dawn <>< Orchard Mist Alpacas Herd/Breeding Manager dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com www.orchardmistalpacas.com

-- dawn benelli (dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com), April 19, 2002

Answers

The Alpaca industry must be commended for their advertising program! What a blitzkreig! They have to be spending a fortune in all those TV ads! More power to you.

"Good investment"? ? I have my own ideas about so many of the "good investment" exotics I've seen over the years that the "investors" have trouble giving away today.

The best advice I was ever given, ( and didn't listen to), was - - " Don't invest in anything that EATS".

-- Judy (JMcFerrin@aol.com), April 19, 2002.

You make a couple of statements that I am interested in finding more out about: "fiber qualities of alpacas are far superior to sheep in that the thermal properties are 10 times better" and "there is no grease where sheep's wool contains lanolin which is what most people are allergic to".

If you could post the surces for these statements/conclusions I would appreciate it.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), April 19, 2002.

What alpaca postings? I must have been asleep! LOL!

-- cowgirlone in ok (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), April 19, 2002.

Dawn, I have no interest in having either critter, llama or alpaca, and altho I think the alpaca is a cuter critter, the price is no doubt what keeps folks away. The alpacas are so much more expensive than the llamas.

-- ~Rogo (rogo2222@hotmail.com), April 19, 2002.

I just want to know one thing. Who the HECK is going to use an animal for it's meat at $30k PLUS per animal? Geez, not even the rich and famous can affor that meat! I think I'll stick to my sheep. They're sweet tempered, absolutely adorable, not too bad on my pocket book, and they provide all the above mentioned.

-- CJ (sheep@katahdins.net), April 19, 2002.

we get alpaca manure from a local breeder who has recently entered the alpaca biz. our talks with him raise a few issues that i'll just throw out here:

1. we live in N. Ga, and it may be too warm for the alpacas to grow their wool the necessary 5 or 6 inches before sheering. i don't know if he's ever gotten 11 lbs off one animal, but he is new to the game. 2. only the male alpacas who have a good breeding record sell for big bucks (no pun intended). i've only heard of $5k-$10k from my friend. never $90k.

3. their manure is great stuff. they all poop in a common pile, it's non-burning (low nitrogen) to plants, and doesn't need to be composted to go right in the garden.

4. their wool really is great. softest stuff out there.

5. we're getting sheep pretty soon. have a friend who's been raising them for 20 yrs, she spins, makes lace and sweaters etc..., and i would like something to eat all the grass in my meadows. the fescue around here is tough and her meadow looks great even tho the sheep "pull the grass up by the roots".

-- chromo (james@wireboard.com), April 19, 2002.

BBQ llama is good,, alpaca should be close to the same

-- Stan (sopal@net-pert.com), April 19, 2002.

Stan, do you eat anything other than BBQ?

-- juana (juana@simple-living.com), April 19, 2002.

I have a Llama, angora rabbits, and loads of friends with sheep. There is nothing wrong with llama wool for the dedicated spinner. Anyone who knows the basics of fiber preperation know how to de-hair any fiber. That is what combs are for. There are plenty of sheeps wools that need to be de-haired and even some angora rabbit wool does. As far as the 10 times warmer than sheeps wool, maybe, but so is dog hair and angora wool. The problem with wools that are so warm is that they are so hot it is uncomfortable to wear them as any garment other than a headband, mittens or in socks. Even here in northern Minnesota these wool are too warm for a hat in most cases. Generally they get belnded with other fibers to add warmth to garments. At the going rate of alpaca fibers even raw fiber is very expensive. If I'm going to spend that sort of money on a fiber I want it to show. If I'm going to belnd it no one will know but me. At least with angora rabbit wool you can blend a little and it does show, the little hairs stick out and form a hailo. As a wool, alpaca, llama, and angora have no crimp and therefore do not have the stretch and resilience of sheeps wool. Any garment of these fibers wil drape and hang but it will not have any body or bounce to it.

My llama as a male and very sweet(I had two but one died), I got them when they were about a year and a half. They have never spit at me or my children nor have they showen any agression. As with any animal if you know what you have and you take the time to work with it you can train them to be social polite animals. Llamas are the camels of the mountains, they were bred for sociability. Yes, they are pack animals so for many homesteaders they are a dual purpose animal. What good is an animal that is raised only for wool that you would be afraid to take out to hike or pack with for fear of harming it's wool. By the way,if a llama's wool is not sheared but hand cut, it will not get the really course guard hairs you speak of.

Alpaca is a beautiful fiber and many people love to spin with it. I have some that I have had sitting in a bag for years now. I can't think of what I will make with it that won't be too hot to wear.

On the piece where you state that sheeps wool has lanolin and that is what most people are allergic to? Well how do you account for all the processed woll that has no lanolin in it and people are still allergic to it. I too would like to see the source of information on that. The oils in sheeps wools have been used for centuries as not only a healing agent but also as a water barrier and barrier to the eliments. Fishermen of old would not have survived in an alpaca sweater on the high seas.

IMHO Susan (owner of Moonpie llama extrodinare, and 4 angora rabbits)

-- Susan in MN (nanaboo@paulbunyan.net), April 19, 2002.

As for selling the fiber to hand spinners, I am one and I've bought high quality alpaca fiber on Ebay for just a bit over $12.00 a pound. Eleven pounds of fiber from one expensive alpaca sells, at $12 per pound, for a total of $132. Total income from one alpaca Per Year is $132. And the animal has to be cared for year round. Where is the great income?

-- Carol - in Virginia (carollm@rockbridge.net), April 19, 2002.

Dawn, I have a question for you. I just had my 10 month old alpaca boys sheered for the first time Wed. When we bought them we were told how much fleece was going for a pound. Now I am ask , what product I want to have them made into. I have to pay to have this product made. It will take a year to get the product back. Then I have to sell it to get my money. That requires a license and tax #. More Expense. How do I sell my prime cria fleece( I have two) as is? Also, Next question. One of my boys got much attention at the sheering. It seems he is beautiful and good stud material. The person I bought him from doesn't think so and will not give me the blood tests to have him registered unless I have him cut. Is there anything I can do about this?

-- corky wolf (corkywolf@hotmail.com), April 19, 2002.

I was recently introduced to alpaca fiber(along with angora rabbit, camel and llama). It is nice fiber to spin but I actually prefer camel. I bought a small bag of alpaca that is a beautiful color of black but this will probably be the only alpaca I buy....it's too blamed high! I can get angora for the same price or cheaper and it is sooooo nice. I hope lots of folks don't loose their shirts on the alpacas the way they did the emus(we have wild flocks of the things running around now because folks couldn't give them away so they turned them loose!)but at the prices you are talking about I'm afraid that may be what happens. You would have to charge an outrageous fortune for the fiber to see any kind of return on your investment and spinners just aren't willing to pay those kinds of prices when there are other nice fibers out there to use.

-- Amanda (mrsgunsmyth@hotmail.com), April 19, 2002.

Question Answers:

>I have a Llama, angora rabbits, and loads of friends with sheep. >There is nothing wrong with llama wool for the dedicated spinner. >Anyone who knows the basics of fiber preperation know how to de-hair >any fiber. That is what combs are for.

Combs are not for “de-hair” –ing fiber, but to untangle and align the fiber to prepare it for spinning. Fiber is combed for worsteds , and carded fiber is for woolens. “De-hairing” fiber is done by hand, peoples of South America do this on the Vicuna fiber since it is extremely full of guard hairs, but the fiber left over is extremely fine.

>There are plenty of sheeps >wools that need to be de-haired and even some angora rabbit wool >does. As far as the 10 times warmer than sheeps wool, maybe, but so >is dog hair and angora wool. The problem with wools that are so warm >is that they are so hot it is uncomfortable to wear them as any >garment other than a headband, mittens or in socks. Even here in >northern Minnesota these wool are too warm for a hat in most cases. >Generally they get belnded with other fibers to add warmth to >garments.

For some reason the main idea people get about finished products made of Alpaca fiber are sweaters. Alpaca fiber is made into lace, light shawls, summer clothing, and business suits to name just a few. Not only socks and sweaters are made from this animal’s fiber (not wool – alpaca fiber structure is different than wool). Alpaca fiber can also be blended with any other natural fiber – from angora to silk. The blend results in a finished product with a wonderful sheen. As long as the Coefficient Variation (CV) is close in number, it will blend with that specific fiber. I know for a fact, that it would be incredibly difficult to make a winter sweater out of fiber of 16.5 micron because it is like working with a spider web – it is so light and fine. It would not be used for socks, for example.

>At the going rate of alpaca fibers even raw fiber is very >expensive. It depends on the qualities the fiber possesses. The less expensive raw fiber may be from the skirted blanket “seconds”, and in most cases is virtually indistinguishable from the blanket fleece. The staple length may be a bit longer because of where it was on the animal. Fleece with low micron, low standard of deviation (SD) coefficient variation (CV) and percentage of fiber over 30 micron (% >30) demands the premium prices. They also make the highest quality finished product.

>If I'm going to spend that sort of money on a fiber I >want it to show. If I'm going to belnd it no one will know but me. >At least with angora rabbit wool you can blend a little and it does >show, the little hairs stick out and form a hailo.

Those little hairs that stick out are guard hairs, and are what cause the “prickle factor in a finished garment. This is one aspect of quality alpaca fiber alpaca that separates it from other fibers. The histogram of a fiber sample will determine the amount of guard hair or fibers over 30 micron. The better quality fleeces do not possess a high mumber, and there fore has little or no “prickle factor”.

>As a wool, >alpaca, llama, and angora have no crimp and therefore do not have >the stretch and resilience of sheeps wool. Any garment of these >fibers wil drape and hang but it will not have any body or bounce to >it.

My guess with this opinion is that either the garment was not made with crimpy alpaca fiber, such as 100% suri fiber, or was made with low quality Huacaya fiber. Evidently, you have not seen high quality raw alpaca fiber, as you would see extremely crimpy fiber, as many as 12 or more crimp per inch. Suri fiber lays on the suri phenotype alpaca like ropes of a mop. It has no crimp, but the tightness of the pencil locks, and the luster lend sheen and sleekness to a finished garment when blended. There aren’t many things that are made with 100% Suri fiber.

>My llama as a male and very sweet(I had two but one died), I got >them when they were about a year and a half. They have never spit at >me or my children nor have they showen any agression. As with any >animal if you know what you have and you take the time to work with >it you can train them to be social polite animals. Llamas are the >camels of the mountains, they were bred for sociability. Yes, they >are pack animals so for many homesteaders they are a dual purpose >animal. What good is an animal that is raised only for wool that you >would be afraid to take out to hike or pack with for fear of harming >it's wool. As mentioned in my original post, I’m not saying all Llamas are nasty, and all alpacas are sweet. Each have their own personalities, but the general rule has been such. Alpacas can be used for light packing, but there really is no reason to. Alpaca packs are available for those who choose to go packing with their alpaca.

>By the way,if a llama's wool is not sheared but hand cut, >it will not get the really course guard hairs you speak of.

Hand shearing with the hand blades is common for those who are very good at it, and usually do not show the shorn blanket fleece. This is mostly because second cuts result, and don’t get as high of score in the judging. But for those who just want to get the fleece off from the animal, hand shearing works great.

>Alpaca is a beautiful fiber and many people love to spin with it. I >have some that I have had sitting in a bag for years now. I can't >think of what I will make with it that won't be too hot to wear.

Depending on the micron, and %>30micron, the sky is the limit. Anything can be made from it.

>On the piece where you state that sheeps wool has lanolin and that >is what most people are allergic to? Well how do you account for all >the processed woll that has no lanolin in it and people are still >allergic to it. I too would like to see the source of information on >that.

I, for one, am allergic to lanolin. Even when wool is scoured and degreased, there is still enough in the wool to cause a reaction, and it is worse with such a high “prickle factor” of the fiber itself. Some grease or lanolin has to be left in the wool upon production to keep the fiber workable in the mill, and longevity for the garment. If it is too dry, the fibers will break up. I was told this information about wool by a sheep farmer, commercial fiber people and also by other fiber artists.

>The oils in sheeps wools have been used for centuries as not >only a healing agent but also as a water barrier and barrier to the >eliments. Fishermen of old would not have survived in an alpaca >sweater on the high seas.

Fishermen may do far better with alpaca sweaters. During WWII, Naval uniforms were lined with Alpaca fiber for its warmth, light weight, and natural water repellant properties. My grandfather, who served in the navy during that time, also had an alpaca sweater issued to him. Alpaca fiber has a natural coating on it called suint, made up of natural alkaloids. The real plus, is there is no nasty smell from the oils, as there is from lanolin. >BBQ llama is good,, alpaca should be close to the same

There is a place in Australia that hs started a business selling alpaca meat under the label of “alpaca viande” to gourmet restaurants. I hear it is quite tasty. No doubt this may be a use for alpacas that do make the grade as breeding stock. No more then $500 should be paid for pet quality alpacas, anyway.

>we get alpaca manure from a local breeder who has recently entered the >alpaca biz. our talks with him raise a few issues that i'll just throw >out here: > >1. we live in N. Ga, and it may be too warm for the alpacas to grow >their wool the necessary 5 or 6 inches before sheering. i don't know >if he's ever gotten 11 lbs off one animal, but he is new to the game.

Alpacas are raised from California, to Arizona, Alaska, to Japan, from Canada to Texas, and everywhere in between. In the AltiPlano, temperatures vary from the extreme cold to the extreme heart in a day… Alpacas are extremely adaptable to any climate. However, this is what makes yearly shearing important – to cut down on heat stress. That applies anywhere.

>2. only the male alpacas who have a good breeding record sell for big >bucks (no pun intended). i've only heard of $5k-$10k from my friend. >never $90k.

I believe one of the high selling males (machos) had not been used for breeding, and this year was his first year in breeding. The second was used one year, I think… the reason for high prices on those particular machos were fleece type and color. The other machos of $160k were also not only for breeding records. The females were also ones I had mentioned that were $70K.. that particular one was not quite a year old, I believe, and a very impressive little girl. Average price for average “breed-up” non production quality alpacas run the price range your friend mentions. This quality breeding stock is fine for those who want to take up to 5 years to get to where a lot of breeders are now. Foundation Bloodstock runs higher; around $20 – 40k each for pregnant females when purchased in a package deal.

>I just want to know one thing. Who the HECK is going to use an >animal for it's meat at $30k PLUS per animal? Geez, not even the >rich and famous can affor that meat! I think I'll stick to my >sheep. They're sweet tempered, absolutely adorable, not too bad on >my pocket book, and they provide all the above mentioned.

No one who spends $30K for an alpaca is going to use it for meat. They are not a meat animal here, although they are used for meat in SA. They are the “sheep equivalent” there. Non registered alpacas can be found in all sorts of places, and aren’t worth much to breeders if they do not have papers. As mentioned before, when I do my consulting, I never recommend purchasing a pet quality alpaca for more than $500.

>Dawn, I have no interest in having either critter, llama or alpaca, and altho I think the alpaca is a cuter critter, >the price is no doubt what keeps folks away. The alpacas are so much more expensive than the llamas.

The market and demand dropped from the llama industry from several factors. There was a glut in supply, there was a huge problem with congenital defects being swept under the rug (Choanal Atresia, and others, for example), and the registry accepted Llamas and Llama crosses, so that there were few pure llamas to breed with. The ARI accept only alpacas and their lineages are DNA confirmed. As mentioned, unless one is into packing, there really isn’t a need for them. There is no demand for llama fiber garments on a commercial scale, and as far as I know, even the US Fiber Co-op doesn’t accept llama fiber, only alpaca. Even South America doesn’t process and ship llama fiber to Europe and Japan for finished clothing, only alpaca. As I said, I am no knocking llamas… I’m going to be looking for one or two myself to guard my alpacas until I get a Marremma puppy and it grows big enough to guard the herd himself. I just don’t see them as a viable investment.

>The Alpaca industry must be commended for their advertising program! >What a blitzkreig! They have to be spending a fortune in all those >TV ads! More power to you.

There’s TV ads? You know, I have yet to see any of those. As far as I know, the Alpaca Owners and Breeders Association (AOBA) only has one “infomercial” type tape. Anything other than that is all done by individual breeders for their own marketing. There are only about 2,000 breeders or members of the association, and 37,000 animals. And as I said in my original post, I detest the “huggable investment”, rose-colored impression given about these animals. I’ve noticed that most new breeders swallowing that line of thinking have never owned a dog, let alone this kind of livestock. They are not lap-dogs, they are livestock, and are to be treated as such. I do like the fact that my 10 year old son can handle his full male alpaca since they are not aggressive or large in stature, and I have no worries about the male turning on him even with an open female around.

>"Good investment"? ? I have my own ideas about so many of the "good >investment" exotics I've seen over the years that the "investors" >have trouble giving away today.

Personally, I never did see how something you have to kill to reap the product made any sense. American ways of thinking for their palate is quite limited, so that eliminated Emu, Rhea & Ostrich. Buffalo, Elk and Deer take way too much room to raise, cost a lot to feed, tear up the land and can easily overpower a man. In other countries, cavies (guinea pigs), dogs, horses, and other animals are common food sources. In the US, just to think of “these little cuties”, Rover or Black Beauty turns the stomach. The US makes a pet out of just about everything. No one is going to take to eating stuff like that. Medicinal properties of some things is catching on, but the herbal alternatives are going to stay way out in front especially with the animal rights/activist stuff always going on.

>The best advice I was ever given, ( and didn't listen to), was - - >" Don't invest in anything that EATS".

Guess you don’t have kids, eh? Anything that you get something out of by putting something into is an investment. Well, I was told the only sure things to invest in are land and antiques as there are limited and constantly decreasing quantity in both. I chose alpacas as my retirement security after doing all of my research since 1996 is because of this: The fiber has been around for centuries, and the demand has been there and always will be there because it is an exquisite product. They are the only fiber bearing animal that produce 32 colors of natural product – whites, greys, browns, blacks, lavenders, reds, maroons, blue, and pinks. They cost about $500 a year to maintain, less than a dog. I get that money back in fiber, and the purchase price for my females, I get for their first offspring, and for the rest of the years I decide to keep and breed her, is clear money. I can depreciate my alpacas on my taxes over 7 years. I have them insured so that is something does happen to my foundation animal, I get my money back – no loss. I can sell their droppings. And if all else fails, and if worse turns to worse, I have a meat for my plate, and fiber that I can literally spin from the animal’s back to make clothes for mine. The fiber only needs to be straightened… no degreasing, no real combing is really necessary… seems to me to be the best investment for the return, and I am directly responsible for what I decide to buy or sell for – not relying on some broker trying to guess what the buy/sell will be at tomorrow. It will never be a “here today, gone tomorrow” /Enron outcome.

-- Dawn Benelli (dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com), April 20, 2002.

To CorkyWolf; >Dawn, I have a question for you. I just had my 10 month old alpaca >boys sheered for the first time Wed. When we bought them we were >told how much fleece was going for a pound. Now I am ask , what >product I want to have them made into. I have to pay to have this >product made. It will take a year to get the product back. Then I >have to sell it to get my money. That requires a license and tax #. >More Expense. How do I sell my prime cria fleece( I have two) as is?

Hi! :o) CorkyWolf, I guess my first question is, did you join the Alpaca Owners and Breeders Association (AOBA)? I ask because there are two ways to sell the fleece. You can put it into the Fiber Co-Op, and depending on the quality of the fiber, you can get a great return either with money or finished product. But only AOBA members can contribute fiber and/or get finished product. I hope the person who sold you the alpacas explained a few things to you. If they didn't, they were only out to sell you some pet quality alpacas. I hope you didn't pay more than about $500 each or about $800 for the pair. You can also sell your raw fleece to hand spinners. You do not need a sales license or anything unless you are making it into a business. Here in WA, it is only $20 anyway to register/start a business. Not all cria fleece is prime fiber. You will need the stats on your fiber - the next step is you should get it micron tested. You will need to grab about a handfull of the fiber taken from the middle of the side, slip it into a zip lock bag, print a copy of the submission form from Yocom McColl (there is a web site), and $7.50 per sample. this will give your purchaser the information about how fine the fiber is, what other fibers it is blendable with, and how it may be used for a finished product based on the percentage of fibers over 30 micron. Higher micron fiber (cria or not) sells by the pound, and price depends on quality and how much fiber the person has to sell. But finer micron with good stats (say, under 20micron with low standard deviation, coefficient variation, and low percentage over 30 micron) sell by the ounce. The reason for this is the high quality but also because fine fleece weighs little. My light fawn alpaca's cria fleece was 16.5 micron, extremely impressive stats, and the whole blanket fleece weighs just over a pound. It's tons of fiber, but is light. Also, since suri fiber is rare, especially colored suri fiber, and if of good stats and micron, this is sold by the ounce also.

>Also, Next question. One of my boys got much attention at the >sheering. It seems he is beautiful and good stud material. The >person I bought him from doesn't think so and will not give me the >blood tests to have him registered unless I have him cut. Is there >anything I can do about this?

Gosh. Did you have a consultant come with you to look them over? Is the stud quality opinion only because of his fiber, or because of conformation also? What was mapped out in the sales contract? What is the bloodline (Is it from a bloodline with known congenital defects)? These are a lot of extra questions, I know. But this all comes into play when purchasing an alpaca of any quality. Based on what information given here, this is the deal: Breeding quality males are particularly scrutinized since they contribute dominant and pull certain traits from the female when breeding for the cria. The males must possess correct conformation, dark eyes, even or good bite, solid blanket color, desired fiber crimp, handle and other characteristics, and of good disposition. If any of these traits are lacking, usually they are sold as pet quality animals. One point about males, though. They are not done growing or developing until 3 years of age. Some sexually mature as early as 18 months, but can take up to the three years. I personally believe that if any male is sold, it should be registerable as a potential stud unless there is an obvious conformational problem or it comes from a sire or dam who is known to have produced congenitally defective, or blue-eyed cria in the past. There are only a scant handfull of breeders that I would take the word of that the male is not breedable and is only of pet quality. I never purchase a young male that has a geld restriction in the contract if there are no problems evident.

Actually, the bloodwork and registration should have been done within the first month of the cria being born. This breeder evidently had no intention of breeding the animal, keeping the animal, or they are unregisterable to begin with because of one of the parents not being registered. Currently, only breeding quality alpacas are registered, so this breeder really isn't holding anything over your head. If the male is gelded, he can't breed, so it matters not if he is registered. If he is not registered but is used for breeding, none of his get are registerable, and can only be sold as pet quality alpacas, regardless of the conformational and/or fiber quality. The Alpaca Resgistry, Inc. (ARI) doesn't know either of your boys exist since no paperwoek has been turned in to the registry, and at present the owner is not held accountable for anything regarding the animals. Responsible members of the ARI are striving to pass the Bylaw that all alpacas need to be registered, and that is meeting a lot of resistance probably because of breeders like the one you are dealing with. The breeders are not held accountable for what happens to the animal since its existance is not documented through registration. Unfortunately, you are stuck if there is the geld restriction in the purchase agreement. If there isn't, then the breeder has no right to put that restriction on you if you own that animal. There are some breeders who insist on new owners gelding the males before 2 years of age. That still baffles me why that is suggested, as the reasoning is almost always in order to keep the animal producing fine fiber. The fine fiber should come from proper breeding and nutrition, not starvation (some farms nutritionally deprive their alpaca in order to produce and sell fine fiber) or hormone deprivation through early gelding. Males need the testosterone to develop stong bones and muscle tone. If they are to be gelded, it should be done after the age of 2. Your 10 month old boys are way too young for you to decide if they are of stud quality or not, let alone think about gelding them. I'd really question the integrity of the breeder, and size of the farm or years in business means absolutely nothing.

With only this emailed information to go on, I'd say this: I hope you didn't pay a lot for them, and unless it is specifically stated in the agreement that the males are to be gelded, this breeder has no right to tell you what to do with these boys. If they are truly pet quality than it matters not about the registration "carrot" that this breeder is dangling in front of you.

I hope I answered your questions... :o)

take care, Dawn <>< Orchard Mist Alpacas Herd/Breeding Manager

www.orchardmistalpacas.com dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com

-- dawn benelli (dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com), April 20, 2002.

From my understanding the "prickle factor" in wool is from the use of shorter inferior hairs not guard hairs. Lanolin makes wool a joy to work with. Alpaka wool is no more expensive than any other skien of wool(from a yarn shop as opposed to craft section in a department store) While alpaka is nice for a change of pace I also believe it may be a bit boring since I have heard that it doesn't dye well. But then again my sister-in-law made a killing her first year in the Rhea business when they first became popular.

-- Diana in FL (dvance4@juno.com), April 20, 2002.

Wow! I've finally discovered the perfect animal business. Will you trade my basement full of chinchillas for one of your alpacas???

-- bruce (niobrara55@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

This is starting to sound too much like a sales pitch for Orchard Mist Alpacas. Dawn, have you tried the Barter Board. Might be some sales over there. Best wishes.

-- cowgirlone in ok (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

Guess my asking for sources doesn't deserve an answer.

So, I'll try again, where is it stated or backed up by reputable science and research that: "fiber qualities of alpacas are far superior to sheep in that the thermal properties are 10 times better" and "there is no grease".

What do you call the sebum produced by the Aplacas, if not a grease, since you are referring to lanolin as grease.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), April 20, 2002.

>>>Guess my asking for sources doesn't deserve an answer. So, I'll try again, where is it stated or backed up by reputable science and research that: "fiber qualities of alpacas are far superior to sheep in that the thermal properties are 10 times better" and "there is no grease".

What do you call the sebum produced by the Aplacas, if not a grease, since you are referring to lanolin as grease. >>>

Guess you didn't read my previous posts, as many questions were answered. Either that, or what answer I gave was unsatisfactory.

In the fiber and mill industries, the lanolin is referred to as grease. It has an oil-like base and needs to be removed by high temeratures and detergent type agents. As explained in my prevous answer, the alpaca fiber has an alkaloids, called suint. Suint has almost soap-like qualities. No allergic reactions to this substance have been reported. And alpaca fiber has been very popular in the making of baby items.

Again, I was personally told the wool information by the people who do fiber mill processing as when the alpaca community was searching for a wool mill to process our fiber, several hundred pounds was destroyed because the alpaca fiber was being processed as if it were sheeps wool. They gave us the information, and the books I have are currently packed away as we are building our farm, and I am slowly getting ready for the move.... Instead of insisting I prove my information correct, do your own research as I do to find information, and prove me wrong. I'll be more than happy to recant any erroneous information on this BB.

The fact is, all I did here on the BB forum is inform and attempt to educate against the false assumptions and qustions brought up in previous posts about Alpacas and their fiber. I have not promoted my farm as suggested by a poster to this thread (as a matter of fact, I hope I do not sell any of my foundation herd for at lest 2-3 years), I have not promoted any certain bloodlines, and I have not made this Industry out to be THE industry or better than any other. Matter of fact, there just as many, if not more jerks and cut-throats in this industry, especially because of the money involved. But you get that in any sector that involves animals. But this industry is young enough I am hoping to save what alpacas I can from some of the stupidity and nastiness that is happening by continuing research and educating new alpaca enthusiasts and breeders. The money is not what I care about so much as the welfare of the animal.

I definitely do not apppreciate the snide and rude comments, and flames I had received privately, and posted here.

I gave answers and hopefully a starting point for anyone who is sincere in wanting to go further in researching information about the animal and the Industry. New breeders/enthusiasts of any "exotic" are easily taken advantage of if they aren't armed with information about the animal and the Industry.

If anyone really has a basement full of chinchillas and are unhappy about it, then shame on them for not doing their homework and researching such an endevor.

Any exotic specie will do well the first or second year.. until the novelty wears off and the personality of the animal is discovered. Eggs from Emu, Rhea, And Ostrich don't sell for enough ( I do eggery work, and I refuse to pay more than $5 per blown egg) and I don't believe in spending a lot of money for something you have to kill in order to get the main product - oil, meat, etc.

The Alpaca Industry has been around for 20 years, and shows absolutely no signs of slowing. Very few livestock lend 7 years of depreciation and other benefits in taxes, but alpaca is one of them.

If the people who have flamed me and the information I provided are so sure I am not telling the truth, do your own research, and prove me wrong. But flaming me is not the way to do it.

Dawn Benelli <>< Orchard Mist Alpacas

-- dawn benelli (dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com), April 20, 2002.

>>>From my understanding the "prickle factor" in wool is from the use of shorter inferior hairs not guard hairs. Lanolin makes wool a joy to work with. Alpaka wool is no more expensive than any other skien of wool(from a yarn shop as opposed to craft section in a department store) While alpaka is nice for a change of pace I also believe it may be a bit boring since I have heard that it doesn't dye well. >>>

Guard hairs are any fiber 30 micron or higher. Shorter fibers would fall out of the garment's yarns because of the ends getting nagged and puled out from whater one rubs up against, and the barbs or scales from the wool's structure also catching onto things.

Alapca fiber dyes extremely well. That is why all of the top exported to Europe and Japan from Peru is white. It Dyes extremely well, takes any kind of color base - vegetable or otherwise. One of the reasons the fiber artists I've talked to in OR at the Black Sheep Gathering love Alpaca fiber so much.

Dawn Benelli <>< Orchard Mist Alpacas www.orchardmistalpacas.com

-- Dawn Benelli (dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com), April 20, 2002.

I do have some alpaca somewhere around here that I purchased 20 years ago. It spins up nice, (I made a beautiful shawl out of some of it) but I also prefer other fibers, angora rabbit, camel, buffalo, and llama to name a few. Dawn, I'm glad the alpacas are working out for you. Especially since you are allergic to lanolin. Some of us are just not going to convert.

As for this thread, My post was the only one I saw that would be considered "Rude". And for that, I apologize. The remaining posts were valid remarks and questions, I saw no flaming.

Thank you for posting the alpaca information and best wishes.

-- cowgirlone in ok (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.

My suggestion to folks who are thinking about "investing" in alpaca is to read about the frenzied speculation in tulip bulbs in the Netherlands centuries ago and much more recently, chinchillas, ostrich, emu, llama and for the really stupid naugas.

I don't care how great alpaca fiber is, the fact is synthetic fibers have killed the market for natural fibers like wool. The next round of synthetics just coming on the scene is mind boggling.

The market for alpaca fiber will always be a limited niche market. As soon as folks come to their senses and look at the facts, alpaca prices are headed for the basement. They'll tank just like the other exotic fad animals.

You're talking about an animal that other than looking cute and producing some hair has no economic value at all other than the fact some folks made a killing selling to "investors."

When someone starts talking about an investment you have to wonder what they're thinking when you can buy beef, pork, and chicken a helluva lot cheaper than some animal that is priced like a precious metal.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), April 20, 2002.

>>>My suggestion to folks who are thinking about "investing" in alpaca is to read about the frenzied speculation in tulip bulbs in the Netherlands centuries ago and much more recently, chinchillas, ostrich, emu, llama and for the really stupid naugas. I don't care how great alpaca fiber is, the fact is synthetic fibers have killed the market for natural fibers like wool. The next round of synthetics just coming on the scene is mind boggling.

The market for alpaca fiber will always be a limited niche market. As soon as folks come to their senses and look at the facts, alpaca prices are headed for the basement. They'll tank just like the other exotic fad animals.

You're talking about an animal that other than looking cute and producing some hair has no economic value at all other than the fact some folks made a killing selling to "investors."

When someone starts talking about an investment you have to wonder what they're thinking when you can buy beef, pork, and chicken a helluva lot cheaper than some animal that is priced like a precious metal. >>> >> >> Synthetics have yet to curb or replace cotton, linen, wool, or silk totally. And that is good for the farmers of those natural fibers because it keeps the supply limited in the natural fiber, and as long as the demand is present, the return and investment will remain healthy. The same goes for another natural fibers.

Again, I am not trying to "convert" anyone. And I definitely do not recommend "investing" in anything that needs to be killed. Heck, I wouldn't put a dime into cattle, horses, pork, or chicken for anything.

The fact still remains that there is high demand for naturally colored natural fiber. It has been in demand for centuries, and will continue to be. Europe has had its demand for the white alpaca fiber forever, and is the main reason why Peruvian government raise white alpacas - to produce white top is and send there to meet/satisfy the demand. The problem is, there are some dyes used in Germany, for example that the US considers toxic and is forbidden to ship here in the finished alpaca product. Because of this, and the reason why natural color is what the US wants, the US breeders are aiming to provide such fiber to fit the demand. Nordstroms, for example, is one store where Alpaca garments are hundreds of dollars. Men's alpaca business suits are $1,000 or more. But are imported. US consumers for the most part like to purchase US made items, from US fibers. That is what the US breeder is in the process of providing.

That is the main goal - to produce the fiber the US is demanding, in the natural colors the US desires, so the products can be available at a good price. It is highly unlikely that the bottom will fall out of any of the natural fiber markets since the product has always been, presently is, and no doubt will always be in high demand.

I'm not saying raising alpacas is for everyone. Just like horses are no longer my "thing" as they used to be when I was younger, and if it weren't for cattlemen, we'd have no steak. Everyone has their own pleasures, and Alpacas are mine, and they give me a great return on the money I have invested, plus I got $3,000 back from the IRS. my oldest daughter plans to be my business partner when she is old enough, but my middle daughter is not really into these animals. To each their own. But banks are more and more learning about the great potential of alpacas, and more and more of them are actually approving farm loans to raise these animals. This Alternative livestock is one way farmers can diversify their "portfolio". However, I repeat what I said in my original post, as with ANY investment, (and any kind of farming is a gamble..) one should not invest any more than they can afford to loose. Nothing is a sure thing.

Dawn Benelli <>< Orchard Mist Alpacas

-- dawn benelli (dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com), April 20, 2002.

For many folks raising sheep, it costs more to shear than they can get selling the wool. That is the reason folks are getting premium prices for hair sheep like Katahdins and Dorpers. Again synthetic fibers killed the market for wool. It's not coming back.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), April 21, 2002.

But where is the money in the animal EXCEPT for breeding stock, which equates to an animal pyramid scheme? Don't mean that rudely, just that it really describes what I'm talking about best. The fiber, and the value of the fiber, is just the come on to get people to invest in them--a way to rank the animals for value--but it doesn't mean anything because as Carol in Virginia pointed out, the fiber is worth only a couple of hundred dollars a year. You talk about "pet quality" and "registration" for every animal and that simply means the paramount importance is the value of the individual animal, not the value of the produce from the animal. There's not much future in an animal industry where the return per animal is that low. So in fact you (the industry, not you personally) are selling breeding stock for high prices until the market is saturated, and the last ones buying are the ones who are out the money. You say it's been growing for 20 years. I'm not surprised: the prices on some of the stud animals are so high this is going to be a slow maturing pyramid. Either that or the people who invest are so wealthy they are doing it for a tax break.

I get a magazine called Northeast Farmer. Sometimes on the back cover there is a full page advertisement for a place in Cuba, NY that has alpaca. Shows a place that looks like a Kentucky Throughbred farm, the kind with real money. The people tout their animals as a great investment, how they got into the business only a few years before for $50,000 and it's the best investment they ever made, etc, etc. I can't remember the details, but you get the drift. As far as I'm concerned, that's pretty much a blueprint for how the whole industry operates.

Didn't mean for this to sound rude, and I'm certainly not flaming you. I'd just like people to be clear about where the value is in this kind of investment.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), April 21, 2002.

I don't think it is synthetics per se that killed the wool/natural fibers market (I mean, go to any really good yarn store and see all the high-priced synthetics--spend $300+ BEFORE you cast on a single stitch), although the low-end brands at what used to be called the five-and-dimes have certainly hurt.

I honestly think that the knitting/crochet market (despite all the latest stories about this and that actress doing it) has disintegrated because people no longer want to spend hours/days knitting a sweater, when they can spend a fraction of the cost and have the sweater now. I'm not going to spend money on good yarn and my time knitting socks (unless they are bed socks which will never touch the floor or Christmas stockings) because 1) I'm hard on them, and 2) unless you are modeling them, normally no one sees them anyway (that's just me, no offense meant to anyone who likes to knit socks :-). A hat, on the other hand, is a relatively quick project, even in fairly pricey yarn won't break the bank, and people will see it.

So, you're looking at it as a niche market at best. Anyone who knits and crochets can tell you that there is not so much innovation in designs anymore, it is simply variation in yarn used. A couple of the latest books I saw were $35 books by a yarn shop featuring big bucks yarn and super simple designs. And the yarns often get discontinued as soon as a book is published, so good luck trying to substitute for them.

Sheep's wool is nice, and I always wonder how many people are truly allergic to it, or have developed allergies because someone told them negative things about it.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 21, 2002.

From www.sheepusa.org:

Wool Demand "similar demand problems exist for wool. Wool is a natural fiber with unique characteristics. However, some characteristics are not easily adapted to changing consumer demands. As a result, non-cellulosic fibers (for example, nylon, Dacron, and orlon, among others) have been developed and have dominated the fiber market. In 1993, synthetic fibers made up about 66 percent of mill use and 56 percent of domestic fiber consumption. Cotton accounted for 32 percent of mill use and 38 percent of domestic fiber consumption in 1993. Mill use for wool as a percentage of total fiber in 1993 was about 1 percent with domestic consumption at 1.7 percent.

Domestic production of wool has declined as has per capita consumption of domestic wool. As with lamb, however, per capita consumption alone does not depict the demand for wool. When considering wool prices along with consumption, the conclusion is that demand for wool has also declined. As with lamb, one major reason is changing tastes and preferences of consumers.

Synthetic fibers do not simply provide an alternative type of fiber to the textile industry; they represent a whole new technology that has changed the handling and manufacturing of textile products. These new fibers can be tailored to meet changing consumer tastes and preferences rather than requiring discovery of new methods of weaving, knitting, or manufacturing as is needed to make natural fibers more appealing. Therefore, introduction of synthetic fibers has greatly contributed to a decline in the demand for wool."

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), April 21, 2002.

It is regretable that your comment: "Guess you didn't read my previous posts, as many questions were answered. Either that, or what answer I gave was unsatisfactory.", is still without any sources to substantiate your claims which I had inquired about.

All the quality authors and credible researchers that I have know, will readily provide the sources for facts which they quote.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), April 21, 2002.

>>>It is regretable that your comment: "Guess you didn't read my previous posts, as many questions were answered. Either that, or what answer I gave was unsatisfactory.", is still without any sources to substantiate your claims which I had inquired about. All the quality authors and credible researchers that I have know, will readily provide the sources for facts which they quote. >>>

What is regretable is the insistance for me to provide the sources of facts comes from a cynic who refuses to do their own research and provide information that refutes the facts previously quoted.

Dawn Benelli

<><

Orchard Mist Alpacas

www.orchardmistalpacas.com

-- Dawn Benelli (dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com), April 21, 2002.

Wow BC, now you're a cynic. And you still didn't get your answer! Who's being rude now?

-- cowgirlone in ok (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), April 22, 2002.

"but for the most part, the alpaca is a great animal, and the only good animal to get involved with investment-wise."

dawn...........it is all very relative. Investments that don't produce and are built on a pyramid scheme, as so many of these new yuppie type animals are, can only mean disappointment for people who are actually production minded. IMHO you are barking up the wrong tree here on a homestead type site.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002.

>>Wow BC, now you're a cynic. And you still didn't get your answer! Who's being rude now? >>>

No one is being rude, at least not me. I'm asking of BC what is being demanded of me. If BC is so sure I do not have my facts straight, and I have been researching and been involved with this indsurty for 6 years, then BC can do their own research and prove me wrong. Simple as that. BC will then provide their own answer.

Nothing rude in that.

Same thing as when someone asks how to spell something, they are told to go look it up. I gave educating answers, and am being questioned. Look it up, don't just take my word for how something is, or isn't.

Also... so sure alpacas are a pyramid scheme and "flash-in-the-pan"? you can check it all out and ask anything you want - cynical and otherwise on :

alpacasite@yahoogroups.com

You can get the answer from over 750 other people... you don't have to take my word for it.

And again, that is not rude. I'm just tired of being put on the carpet by somone who won't bother to do their own research, but yet cynically questions those who have.

Dawn Benelli <>< Orchard Mist Alpacas

-- Dawn Benelli (dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com), April 22, 2002.

>dawn...........it is all very relative. Investments that don't produce and are built on a pyramid scheme, as so many of these new yuppie type animals are, can only mean disappointment for people who are actually production minded. IMHO you are barking up the wrong tree here on a homestead type site. >

Diane, I posed your comment to the alpacasite, to get their reaction. This Homestead BB has been a good guage on how the alpaca industry is percieved. The breeders on the site are somewhat shocked on how negative the industry is percieved here; almost to the point of hatred, according to some of my personal emails and remarks here.. Although I hope I have helped those who have personally emailed and asked great questions! :o) So I am hoping either something is changed in our marketing, or whatever.....

Dawn Benelli <>< Orchard Mist Alpacas

-- Dawn Benelli (dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com), April 22, 2002.

I certainly hope, Dawn, that my comment was not perceived as hatred!! I am just trying to be a realist. I have been following "trends" for many years (I am one of the real old farts) and I have NEVER seen these ventures pay off for anyone except those who begin them. Boer goats in point............WONDERFUL meat animals to be sure and did a great deal for the meat goat industry, but a lot of people that got in late and paid big bucks lost big bucks. Emus, Rheas, even fancier breeds of cattle..........the people at the top of the pyramid made big bucks and others lost.

You have a very narrow market for your product. I knit and love nice yarn, but would NEVER pay the price they are asking. A lot of yuppies will and do, but for how long?? I wish you well on your venture, and I am sorry you received "hate mail" as you describe it.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), April 22, 2002.

I have just read through the complete file on this theme and am amazed at two things: 1. the tenacity and depth of response from Dawn, and 2. the apparent lack of open-mindedness by some. There are a couple of pertinent issues that people need to consider when they lay outrageous claims of pyramid selling/structure and claim that the wool industry is dead. Firstly, the pyramid structure. Every successful animal industry is based on a pyramid structure. There are always a few industry stakeholders that assume a dominant position in the industry through leadership, breeding policies, genetic superiority, wealth, etc. These people provide quality stock to the next level who multiply these genetics into more affordable stock to those who will commercially farm these animals for the product the we consumers buy and use. Something in the order of 15% at the top, 30% in the middle tier and 70% forming the base of the pyramid. Nothing dramatic there - just a normal industry structure. But these animals reproduce at the rate of 60 to 70% per annum with very few twins so it takes many years to build up the numbers to create the base of an alpaca animal and fibre industry. Every new industry has to start somewhere, nothing starts from the base and works up - it always starts from the top and works down. Alpacas will become more affordable and the harvesting of fibre will become a viable industry in time. Prices for animals will be determined by quality and not by rarity in the future but the population in the US will probably have to reach somewhere near 300,000 animals before that becomes a reality. In the meantime, some animals will attract very high prices because someone is prepared to pay it whilst others are much more affordable. In all pyramid selling schemes, the last person in loses the lot. Should the alpaca industry fit this category, ALL investors from the top down lose - and that will just not happen because there are several underlying values with these animals and their fibre that sustain real dollar value. Secondly, the wool industry is not shot - it may be from a wool producer perspective in the US but it certainly is not in other parts of the world! The wool industry is fighting the huge growth of synthetics with much purpose and success. There will always be a demand for wool and other natural fibres in this world dominated by synthetic fibres, attitudes, lifestyles, relationships, etc. Synthetics have a place - I even own a piece! - but there is a place for those people who want more out of life than that. It is those people who are the focus of natural fibre producers. There is a natural niche market for high quality pure alpaca but there is a much bigger market for blended alpac with wool, silk, cotton, mohair and cashmere. Alpacas will return 20% on investment from fibre, skin and meat values when bred outside a register system and sold for commercially sustainable rates. It is just a matter of time for this to happen in the US. Please do not fall into the trap of comparing these animals, this industry and its stakeholders, to emu and ostrich. Those industries were killed off by technology and no formal marketing structure for the limited products they produced. No vision, no markets = no industry! Just a couple of house keeping comments: alpaca fibre does have crimp and it doea have crinkle. It does hold its shape but it does hold its shape better if blended with wool. my understanding is that it has three times the insulating effect as wool for the same weight which means a much lighter weight garment for the same insulating value as a woolen garment prickling is caused by medullated fibre (fibres generally over 30 micron in diameter) and not short fibres. Short fibres in any staple are finer than the stronger ones. As the fleece fines down, so the staple length reduces. It is the short fibres in a longer fleece that create the processing problems where uniformity of length is the mill operators biggest technical problem. the method of shearing has absolutely nothing to do with the structure of the fleece. Every animal is born with a set ratio of primary (guard hair) follicles and secondary follicles. That number does not change once the animal is born but the espression of the secondary follicles may take up to a year or two before being expressed to its full potential. Unless you can actually root out the primary follicles, you will always have the same number of guard hairs in a fleece regardless of how it is shorn. What might happen is that the number of secondary follicles being expressed in the first two years is masking the number of primary follicles by increasing numbers. Kind regards, Ian Watt

-- Ian Watt (newhorizonhomes@bigpond.com), April 23, 2002.

Thank you for the information. I still can't afford an alpaca and I still would rather hand spin my sheeps wool. (I guess I like to spin something with "Grease" in it. I'm glad there is a market for alpaca wool someplace, there just doesn't seem to be a market for it here on a homesteading forum. (We usually eat what we raise). Now if you want to hang around for a discussion about Yaks, black meated chickens, or fainting goats, it gets pretty interesting! Best wishes.

-- cowgirlone in ok (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), April 23, 2002.

No one says you have to buy alpacas. No one is trying to "convert" anyone. The information that had been given to those who were asking about alpacas, the fiber and the Indsutry were given extremely erroneous information. Alapcas actually are very much the animal and laternative livstock to talk about on a homestead BB.. not only the "rich" can be owners... I'm proof of that. But at any rate, it was necessary to make available the accurate information.

The alpaca, the qulity fiber, aand the constant demand speak for themselves for those who are really wanting to know more.

Dawn Benelli

Orchard Mist Alpacas.

-- Dawn Benelli (dawn@orchardmistalpacas.com), April 24, 2002.