Litter, trash, dumping, whatever; how does your area deal with it?

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I'm the Chairman of a local citizens' advisory committee in Oregon. We've lately been trying to find a practical solution to a growing problem in our area: GARBAGE.

The biggest issue is illegal trash dumping. Ever since the local dump had to raise fees in an attempt to monitor/clean up the underlying groundwater, there has been a veritable explosion of trash dumping. This takes place on vacant land, Forest Service land, Bureau of Land Management land, and along public roads.

Some of this trash is merely unsightly. Some is a true health hazard. One resident a couple of miles up the road from here has a pile of garbage in front of his mobile home which has grown so large that it has rendered the mobile home invisible from the road! This has resulted in lots of flies, yellow jackets, and rats infesting his neighbors, or so they have told me.

I am wondering if any of you folks have had similar experiences, and how you have dealt with it.

My group has talked to the county commissioners, the county health department, and state DEQ. We've met a lot of disinterest in the problem, for the most part, although our commissioners asked if we'd be willing to be part of a "citizens' study committee" to come up with potential solutions. This suggestion may or may not be a way tfor the commissioners to postpone taking any action. Not sure.

Some ideas we've come up with so far: make people clean up their dumps, plus pay a fine for illegal dumping on others' property, enforceable if there is evidence of whose garbage it is.

Require people who do "yard cleanup" to take out a permit, and show proof that the garbage has actually been taken to the dump, rather than dumped on the side of the road.

Free garbage pickup throughout the county, payed for by taxes. It seems, intuitively, that it would be cheaper for a large truck to carry lots of people's garbage to the dump, than for all of us to drive a single load to the dump in separate vehicles. Also, this would force scofflaws to pay for disposing of their garbage, so that maybe they'd avoid dumping it off the side of the road.

I wonder if anyone's county or other rural area has publicly funded trash pickup, how much it costs, and how well it's worked for you.

Currently, it costs over fifty bucks to dump a single small pickup load of household trash at the "sanitary land fill". It's not surprising that folks who are short on cash act on the temptation to save the money by illegal dumping, unfortunately.

-- joj (joj@home.org), April 17, 2002

Answers

Seems that Burlington, Vermont has a program that recycles like 20% of their garbage, might check with them. $50.00 is a lot more than a little amount of cash to lots of people.

Consider a separation/coposting and recycling program.

-- BC (desertdweller44@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.


Is there any recycling in your area? A good recycling program will cut down on a lot of trash, that's why a lot of big cities were required to have them. I say "good" to mean one that actually takes ALL stuff that says it's recyclable, not "we take plastic but not dairy containers if the opening is wider than the base, etc.). Another thing that discourages recycling is having to pay for it. Recycling should be free to the person dropping it off/having it picked up, especially when you ask people to presort it as well.

As to mandatory trash, it penalizes people for NOT generating trash. I've never heard of a program where taxes would pay for it--it is always a separate bill because they contract it out with one of the huge concerns like Waste Management (they too had Enron problems) which then has a monopoly, and the fees always go up.

If you're careful with what you buy (cloth diapers instead of paper, for example), and recycle what you can, a family could easily go with one truckload of trash a year to the dump--which is a heck of a lot cheaper than mandatory trash pickup, which you get charged for whether you're home or not--just like sewer fees. Your dump fees seem high, but dumps seem to charge both by weight and cubic feet (as opposed to one or the other), so I have nothing to really compare it to. I remember that couple in the PBS show (I think they were in Seattle) who between them had one trashcan of trash a year. Mandatory trash would be grossly unfair to people like them.

If there are known "dumping areas" post some signs and cameras, and charge high fees to those you get pictures of (trace through license plates). Maybe even take the vehicle.

As to people having dumps on their own property, code enforcement rules need to be rewritten to allow for fining/taking of property for this kind of violation.

Hope this helps.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 17, 2002.


Here in my county if you can not show that you have your trash picked up by a private company then a fee for using the local dumpsters is added onto your annual property taxes.

Personally I used to pay for trash pick-up but got mad when they wouldn't show up for 2 or 3 weeks in a row. I now take my trash my- self twice a week and do all the recycling of whatever can be recycled.

I hate it when people dump their trash out in the country.

-- Anita in NC (anitaholton@mindspring.com), April 17, 2002.


Also, mandatory trash pickup does not really stop some people--oh, they may put out the can every week, but their garage/backyard is still chock full of stuff, attracting skunks, opossums, racoons, etc. That's why code enforcement rules need to be rewritten sometimes, so that there is some way to get the mess cleaned up.

If you aren't too close to your neighbors, you can easily store trash where it doesn't smell and isn't a nuisance until you get a truckload, and like BC mentions, composting is great too.

Be careful what you ask for, imho mandatory trash fees are just extra taxes in disguise.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 17, 2002.


Our township has a dump day, the township pays to have a dumpster at a site and we have to haul it. They also have recycling, and metal scrap areas. This only runs from about March til Nov. due to weather. Of course some people outside of our township heard there is a free dump and started hauling to ours. So now we get permits, so they check us when we pull in, so were not paying for other townships dumping problem.

-- Suzanne (weir@frontiernet.net), April 17, 2002.


We don't live in the city (which has trash pick-up as part of city taxes). Most folks in the county use a private trash collection service (and pay through the nose for it). Even if we wanted private trash collection, we live too far out in the boonies to get it. We have a dump run by the county, the maintenance of which is paid for out of county real estate taxes. Like one poster, we get permits so that folks from other counties aren't using the dump.

Honestly, it works pretty well. There's an area for recycling (although it's one of those that limits what type of recylcling it will take--plastic bottles with the neck smaller than the base, etc.). We have very little illegal dumping . . . since there's no cost associated with going to the dump (well--other than taxes :-), I suppose most folks figure it's just as easy to do it legally as it is to do it illegally.

As for folks hauling once a year . . . what in the world do they do with it in the meanwhile? We're pretty good about recycling, using less packaging and all of that stuff, but it'd be impossible for me to go a year without going to the dump!

-- Julie Woessner (jwoessner@rtmx.net), April 17, 2002.


It does depend upon the type of trash, of course. Vegetarians, for example, wouldn't have smelly meat bones to attract animals. Lots of trash is packaging (styrofoam, plastic blister packs for easily stolen items, etc.) that doesn't smell, but can't be recycled. Cloth diapers are washed, not tossed out to smell (and not decompose for ????? years) as in the case of disposables (and thinking of the adult disposables now advertised on TV...just think of the extra trash as the population ages). Shopping at bulk food stores where you can use your own containers also can make a difference--you're bringing home just the consumable, not the packaging.

Most people I know store trash in bags in a little open trailer, or in a small fenced area, obviously not right next door to the neighbors, lol.

Julie, are your permits for so many trips? Or they don't want to look at driver licenses (which is what I usually see where there have been dump days where I used to live)? Occasionally in cities also there will also be a "put it out on the curb day" or you will get one coupon for a free dump run (naturally filled with many restrictions).

Recycling really varies according to area. Imho, if an area is big enough to do recycling, it's big enough to take everything recyclable and not be so picky. Some of the big cities will take all sorts of things that they won't touch in the country.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 17, 2002.


Do you have a jail? I'm sure you do.You feed the laws breakers in with tax monies. So do as we do here let the people that is doing time pick it up. When you know you will be on the chain gain where all your friends can laugh at you it might cut down on crime a little too.It has here anyway, and the roadways looks better too.

-- Bo (bos@preferred.com), April 17, 2002.

When you find the answer send it to the legislature in TN. We have more trash on the roads than anywhere I've ever seen. One of the causes is when you make it difficult or inconvenient for people to get rid of their trash. Our county has(in)convenience centers. They don't open until 10 in the morning but close at 6 in the evening but only during daylight savings time. Otherwise they open at 9 in the morning and close at 5 in the evening, but they always close on Tues. and Sunday. And when you go there you can bet on getting no assistance and a loud dose of gospel music. The more inconvenient they make it the more trash there is on the side of the road.

-- Emil in TN (eprisco@usit.net), April 17, 2002.

GT . . . the permit is for unlimited visits to the dump. Basically, they treat it like city garbage service only without the pick-up. I suppose if I were so inclined, I could go every day except for Wednesday (the day it's closed). :-) They have large dumpsters that we use. Every few days garbage trucks come by the dump and collect the stuff from the dumpsters and drive it to a landfill.

The permit is a tab that hangs from the rearview mirror. That makes it easy for the attendant to see at a glance whether you're allowed to dump. Checking licenses wouldn't be practical since our county of residence isn't listed on our licenses.

Regarding recylcing, apparently the problem is finding places that can accept things like plastic yogurt containers and the like. Believe it or not, it's more expensive out here for the county to recyle than it is to put stuff in a landfill. {sigh}

In addition to "traditional" garbage and "traditional" recylcing, we have a spot at the dump for large appliances, another for wood and a shed for things that may be useable by someone else. The shed is cleaned out weekly. They also have a barrel for used oil; other hazardous materials have to go to another landfill. At that landfill, they collect old paint and offer it for free to folks. I think they do some "re-mixing" of the paint, so you get some pretty interesting colors from what I hear.

As for the once a year trip to the dump, yeah, I suppose I can see how someone could do it, but man . . . I'd go nuts. We don't have much smelly garbage bc we compost just about everything we can and we don't have left-over meat because we have dogs. Still, we have a fair amount of garbage/recylcing, probably one kitchen sized bag each week, plus recylcing.

I understand the fairness associated with making folks pay to dump each load. Rewarding folks for economy makes sense. On the other hand, charging in that fashion seems to encourage non-compliance. As a taxpayer, I'd rather pay more because some folks don't try to reduce waste rather than see more illegal dumping. I do think there is a correlation between dumping fees and illegal dumping, although I'm sure there are those who would dump illegally no matter what.

This is definitely an interesting thread . . . I find it very interesting to hear about how different areas handle this problem.

-- Julie Woessner (jwoessner@rtmx.net), April 17, 2002.



Here in Westchester Cty, NY our taxes pay for weekly pick up, including recycling. We have monthly 'bulk pick up' also. Understand that you pay for these services if you use them or not.

The trash you described would be hauled away and the fee applied to the homeowners taxes, don't pay and lose the place.

Heck, they'll even mow your lawn and bill you for it!

Too far? Maybe. Some people just refuse to live like, well-people. I for one keep a tidy place and I don't appreciate it when my neighbors don't.

Our biggest problem here lately is a group that think the river is a cesspool. I canoe with extra trash bags to give out and a translated sign explaining that "if you bring it here, you must take it out" this group leaves bottles, cans, diapers, food-it's down right disgusting! The DEC has limited manpower, so we all must be the river- keepers.

Try to educate, if that doesn't work-charge them!

-- Kathy (catfish201@hotmail.com), April 17, 2002.


Where I used to live the garbage fees were $176 per house per year and were included in the property taxes. Every home paid this regardless.

I lived alone, I recycled, composted & burned, so I had one (1) bag of trash for pick-up about every month.

The house next door was a family of about 7 people. They had a mountain of garbage each and every week. They paid the same amount that I did. Every Thursday morning I'd see their pile and it would not be a good start to my day.

No matter what is decided, there will always be an unfair situation for someone. And it's the earth that suffers most.

Please let the forum know what your committee decides.

-- Charleen in WNY (harperhillfarm@yahoo.com), April 17, 2002.


Here in Delaware County, Okla. we voted in a sales tax so we could have trash dumpsters located within 3 miles of houses. It's kinda feels like it is free to use whenever you need it, even tho you are paying for it when you buy something. Also we have Waste Transfer sites throughout the county where you can take big appliances, furniture, etc. and it is payed for through your sales taxes.

The only drawback is if the surrounding counties don't have the same program. People from other counties will drive over to dump there stuff either in the dumpsters or in some levine illegally.

When our county started the program it made enough money to place all the dumpsters all through out the county. Plus they went around and cleaned up all the illegal dumping.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), April 17, 2002.


Julie, I don't understand how they can justify the $50+ per pickup load that JOJ is talking about, unless there's something peculiar about the load itself (say it was extra heavy due to using a trash compactor). Are they SURE the groundwater is contaminated solely from the dump? And, even if it is, why not raise something that impacts the county more or less universally, like the water bills, or property taxes (that you can't avoid)? I bet if the dump fees came down, and fees for illegal dumping implemented, that people would use the dump a lot more.

In many places, you always pay extra to dump appliances, which I don't understand because you *know* someone's making money off the salvage.

Maybe things with a high trash impact (like disposable diapers) should carry a "landfill tax". Hmmmmm.

Or, you have mandatory trash , but with a one can baseline (like Charleen), and over that you pay more--so if you work at it, or are REALLY nice to Charleen, you can either keep your trash to 1 can also, or put your extra in her can (obviously, not overfilling it) on occasion. Power companies use baseline amounts, why not for trash? That would certainly be fairer to more people.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 17, 2002.


I forgot to mention: I would strongly pursuede every county to adopt this. Since we pay our dumping through our sales taxes I really believe it is cheaper than when we would pay a monthly fee for trash service. And our county is a whole lot cleaner. Our only problem is getting people to quit throwing trash out the car windows while driving down the roads. Maybe if we impose a tax on a monthly clean up crew, people will quit polluting.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), April 17, 2002.


Here we pay $10 dollars a month with our electicity bill, for that you get a road side pick up of your garbage once a week. They only take household, no large stuff, appaliances, stoves, refegerators, or T.V.s. Yes we sometime have people that dump stuff on our land, dead animals, the buzzards have just finished a full grown cow, yuck, and some times a console tv. If I catch them they will spend some time picking up every thing along that road and taking it with them. We have a large creek that goes through our property and used to let people fish swim and picnic down there then got tired of collecting their trash after their outing and locked the gates. Still let some people but they are sure to clean up after themselves. Humans are just trashy by nature I guess.

-- David in North Al (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), April 17, 2002.

Raising the fees at a dump (especially in rural areas) is a mistake and will lead to illegal dumping. Solution, you leave the rates as they are and raise everyone's municipal taxs. Yup, everyone will complain that those who dump more should be charged more (which they should)... but the reality is that taxpayers will pay either way. They'll either pay for the increased fees at the dump or the cleanup fees for the roadside litter... and do you really want garbage on the sides of your roads or in your forests?

-- Bert (Bert@sesamestreet.com), April 17, 2002.

If JOJ is anywhaere near where I live in OR that $50 fee is to dump at a transfer station, then the county or whom ever has to transport it to a landfill elsewhere where they pay a dumping fee by the ton, they are not making any money on that $50 bill. We recycle what we can, cardboard, new papers & bottles but our local servie will not take cans, they will take them in the trash pickup tho, which we have. We compost our leaves, grass clippings and table scraps except for meat and bone which the dog gets. We can burn paper, (sometimes). We have a little ranch in the mountains surrounded by either BLM land or private timber companies, recently while driving up there i saw a pile of tires someone had dropped off in an unofficial camping area but for the best part it is so far out that people don't want to go that far to throw out there trash, they can do it closer to home, like over the bank of a creek, that's cool, aint it. Everyone is faced with this trash,(solid waste) problem to some degree, as we are all going to have to face serious water & fuel shortages in the future and we all will have to pay for it somehow.

-- hendo (redgate@echoweb.net), April 18, 2002.

Our county has 'free' trash pick-up for all residents. We also have a recyclable pick-up once a month. Recycling is voluntary here, but most people participate. Twice a year we have 'large metal pick-up' (appliances, broken implements, etc.) Once a year we have furniture (and other large items) pick-up. You can take any large items or tires to the garage anytime and they will take them to the dump for you- no charge. It is illegal to have an open dump on your property. If one is discovered, they give you 30 days to clean it up or you are fined. Anyone caught dumping illegally (on property not their own) is eligible for a fine, jail time, and/or community service (usually picking up trash alongside the road). The biggest problem I see is kids throwing pop cans out of the bus windows, but there are people here who drive around picking them up to resell, so it isn't a huge problem. They county also uses prisoners to pick up roadside trash during the summer. We live near a lake and the boaters and swimmers that visit during the summer aren't as considerate as the regular residents.

-- Gayle in KY (gayleannesmith@yahoo.com), April 18, 2002.

Don't know about the area you are in but here lots of rural folks burn their trash in barrels. If you separate out the burnables from the nonburnables your barrel will last a really long time. We do have a dump available also but it is so far to drive and so high to use it. Most of the types of things that you would consider taking to a dump they won't take anyhow. Ours won't let you dump paint cans and such....well just what am I supposed to do with em?? I see lots of piles of tires that someone dumped out beside the road and such.....not because they wanted to litter but because there was nowhere else to put them! Heaven help you if you try to burn the tires and such....talk about a steep fine! As for folks just dumping household trash....we have found that a 12 gauge encourages them to find somewhere else to put it(of course that won't work for what you are looking for). In Texas if you can go through the dumped trash and find mail or something addressed to the person that is proof it is their trash the local constable will fine them(we had a creek bottom area that people were always dumping trash at).

-- Amanda (mrsgunsmyth@hotmail.com), April 18, 2002.

I want to thank each of you who contributed your ideas! Lots of good information here; I'm going to print the responses to share with my group, for brainstorming purposes.

Those of you who mentioned "free" trash pickup, e.g. Suzanne, r.h., Gayle, how much are the costs? Like, how much does it raise your property taxes, or whatever? Did you get a chance to approve whatever legislation created this taxation?

I like the idea of "free" garbage pick up, but don't know if the citizens of the county would willingly agree to ANY new taxes. That just doesn't seem to be the way things are here. For one thing, our county government costs us almost nothing, because it's paid for by the Feds, in lieu of property taxes, since 3/4 of the county is Federal Forest land, so everyone seems to think they should get everything without paying for it, it seems.

Hi, Hendo, haven't heard from you lately. I thought I heard that you'd sold your place in Wolf Creek; is it true? Where are you now?

-- joj (joj@home.org), April 18, 2002.


joj, The free trash pick-up was in place when I moved here. My property tax on 65 acres is $120 per year, so I suppose it didn't raise it much. Sorry I couldn't be much help.

-- Gayle in KY (gayleannesmith@yahoo.com), April 18, 2002.

Our free trash pickup is added to our sales tax when someone purchases something. It is not just the county residents who pay, it is people from other counties or states who happen to be in our county when they buy something. The tax is only something like 1/4 of a cent on the dollar. Maybe less, I'm not sure. Yes, we all voted it in. I think before we were paying something like $17.00 a month for trash pickup service(this was back in the 80's). No law that you had to have the service so a lot of people continued to illegally dump. I maybe stepping on some shoes but I wish the Gov.'t would make this mandatory across all the states, plus another tax hike to pay someone to pick up the trash along the highways. I know they have trustees doing that but when you live in the bottom of the county they usually don't make it that far. If we had a extra tax hike maybe people would quit throwing trash out the windows.

-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), April 19, 2002.

This has been a very interesting thread. I guess garbage is a pretty much universal problem.

What I can't figure out is, since everyone here (and everyone I know) seems to agree about properly disposing of waste, recycling, composting, and reducing packaging (an attitude not that common when I was a kid - back then nearly everybody just tossed their garbage out the car window) who exactly ARE these jokers who think they have a right to foul our collective "nest"? People are way more educated about this kind of thing now - what planet do you have to hail from NOT to know that dumping trash along a road or in the woods is just plain WRONG?!

Maybe that is a stupid question, but my point (I think) is that continued education about the problems of polution, over consumption, and just plain disreguard for the health of the planet, go a long way toward solving these problems before they start. Maybe finding better ways to educate people about the hazzards of improper disposal should be part of the trash problem SOLUTION ?

-- Deborah Stephenson (wonkaandgypsy@hotmail.com), April 20, 2002.


R.H., I like your idea about funding trash service through sales taxes, but Oregon doesn't have one, to my knowledge.

At least sales taxes hit everyone fairly (I know people think it is a "regressive" tax, but you can adjust your spending habits--frugal people spend less on sales taxes, rich or poor). Property taxes don't (what with exemptions, and the fact that home/farm values are adjusted at whim), and mandatory "fees" don't either, because they don't take into account actual use of the service, unless, as I mentioned before, the fee is a very low "baseline" amount (say 1-2 cans per month), and those who go over baseline get socked with much higher charges.

I think the recycling of aluminum cans depends upon if you're paying deposits on the cans or not (some states do, some don't), and how much they're giving you back. Also, several communities have had problems with "recycle rustlers" who cruise neighborhoods early in the morning on trash day stealing cans out of the bins, and in effect, stealing from the trash company. I know other people who do not recycle cans themselves (they don't pay a deposit in their state), but do give them to the Elks or other charitable organizations because they get a better price on them being non-profits.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 21, 2002.


In our county we put recyclables all in the same bag. I mean that glass, aluminum, and #2 plastic are all mixed together. I have never heard of anyone stealing recycling here- too much trouble to sort it, I guess.

-- Gayle in KY (gayleannesmith@yahoo.com), April 21, 2002.

Only aluminum is worth stealing--lightweight, no breakage hazard, and decent money in some places. But if the area is paying decent money for it, most people will not put it out with the other stuff, they'll take it in themselves to get the money.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 21, 2002.

joj,

When we moved into this house 6 years ago, we chose a company to pick up our trash weekly. If I remember correctly, the fee was $45 dollars a quarter. There was a $3 rebate for recycling. We stopped that after the first quarter and started taking our trash to the co. dump. At the dump we found out that we could bring all kinds of recyclables for FREE...any kind of metal, appliances, bikes, etc... paper, glass, cans, textiles, certain plastics, used oil, and yard wasted (grass, tree clippings). It cost only about $5 for a normal carload of normal household trash (done by weighing when coming in and going out).

Every year when we get our county tax bill, we get 2 coupons for taking stuff to the dump. The coupon is worth up to $25 for one trip. We have friends that do not need their coupon and they give us theirs.

So, after burning paper trash that cannot be recycled and then recycling everything else that can be, there isn't much left for the landfill.

Our county dump also does periodic mailings that serve to educate people on what can be recycled.

It helps to not purchase things in the first place that will have to end up in the land fill.

Hey, how about offering seminars on garbage and then giving those who come a discount coupon for the dump?

-- Lavender, Central Maryland, Carroll Co. (lavenderbluedilly@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.


I forgot to mention that our dump has a Swap Shop where people can leave things that are still usable but that they no longer want. We have seen people throw things away that could have been used or sold somewhere. We have found really neat things at the Swap Shop....sets of encyclopedias, chairs, dressers, toys, computers, doors. The best day is Monday after yard sale weekends.

-- Lavender, Central Maryland (lavenderbluedilly@hotmail.com), April 21, 2002.

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