Do we need to keep a horse in a stable in the winters in Central Wisconsin (Owen) or can they survive all year in the pasture? Is a three sided structure satisfactory? If it is, which direction should the opening be?

-- Victoria Bottomley (bottomley.tharp@verizon.net), April 16, 2002

Answers

A horse will be fine. Be sure plenty of feed and warm water, They won't drink much water if it's very cold water. A three sided shelter is fine open to the south.

-- John in Mn. (nospam@mywork.com), April 16, 2002.

John, since you won't leave and email address, would you please tell me what you do with bloodroot that I saw in a previous post about mushrooms. thankyou

-- Bonnie in indiana (queqid@att.net), April 16, 2002.

Horses require shelter, regardless of what the law says. (In many states, there is no legal requirement to shelter livestock.) At the very, very least, they need a wall to act as a windbreak. But really, a three-sided shelter (called a run-in) is what you want, if you can't build a full barn. Three sides to block the wind and snow, and a roof to keep the rain off. Even if a horse can survive with less, we want our beloved animals to have as much comfort as possible, right? And a 3-sided shelter is just the thing if money or space is a concern. I HATE seeing horses with crappy shelter, or none at all. When I drive by such places, I wonder about the intelligence of the owner, not to mention their obvious lack of concern for their horses' comfort.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), April 16, 2002.

and according to SHannon, make sure it has color satelite TV with suround sound, a couple space heaters,, and a cooler for the beer

-- Stan (sopal@net-pert.com), April 16, 2002.

Let's look at it in a more self-centered practical way then, Stan. A horse without adequate shelter burns a lot more feed just trying to stay warm than a well sheltered horse does.

-- Laura (LadybugWrangler@somewhere.com), April 16, 2002.

Right on, Stan! And a jacuzzi wouldn't hurt, either. :)

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), April 16, 2002.

A run-in shed would be fine as long as it is big enuf for everyone to get in and everyone is willing to share. Here in Ohio, most of our winds come from the southwest - so my open doors face east. We very seldom have winds from the east.

-- Dianne (willow@config.com), April 16, 2002.

A lot depends on the breed of the horse as well. A thoroughbred will not winter well with just a three sided shelter. An extra layer of clothing, like a nice turn-out blanket would do just fine. If you have a three sided shelter, make sure it is open to the south or away from the prevailing winds of winter!

-- Joy in Eastern WA (jparkes@spfarm.com), April 16, 2002.

Three sided shelters are fine most of the time. Actually, a horse is usually healthier in this type of shelter than closed up in a stall. The horse needs to be in good shape going into winter, we prefer to put a bit of fat on ours in the fall. The type of horse does make a difference also, as previously mentioned. "Hot blooded" horses such as Thoroughbreds, Saddlebreds, Arabs, etc. tend to not put on as much fat nor as heavy a coat. Generally they will need more protection. We raise primitive horses that put on an extremely dense winter coat that you can't hardly work your fingers down into. They prefer a simple shelter or even just a stand of trees, even in our sometimes bitter weather. (It's snowing here right now.)

One mistake many livestock owners make is to feed more grain when it's cold. The reverse should be true - they need more HAY.

-- Lenette (kigervixen@nospam.com), April 16, 2002.

Also, if there's away you can keep the inside of the shelter from becoming a muddy mess, you should. It's not good for horses to have to stand in mud all of the time - rots their hooves, & skin around their fetlocks, etc.

-- Erica (natureselegance@hotmail.com), April 16, 2002.

I have three horses and no barn as such. I have a small building, old garage with one box stall for injured horses. My guys hate being inside. When given the choice year round they will choose to be out in the pasture, even in sub-zero winter blizzard and rainstorm conditions. However, they do have shelter! They have an area in the back pasture where they can go into a dense pine grove and in the more front pasture they linke to hangout in one corner where they have trees on two sides. It is the wind rather than the snow, cold or rain that seems to bother them the most.

Fresh water at all times is a must. A horse on an average day will drink 6 gallons of water. Snow is NOT sufficient as a water source.

Susan

-- Susan in MN (nanaboo@paulbunyan.net), April 16, 2002.

We have a very nice barn. But 99% of the time the horses stand just outside the door!!!

-- Melissa in SE Ohio (me@home.net), April 17, 2002.

My horses are stall kept in the worst weather, usually only when it's cold and wet and their coat can't keep them insulated. The Quarter Horse is in during the day and out at night during the summer as he has a wide blaze that sunburns easily (and because he can get incredibly fat on air and limiting grass is best for his rotund butt), the Morab and TB are out as much as possible.

The OP is right about feeding more hay in the winter, I think the standard is 20% more hay per 10 degree drop in temperature.

Stacy in NY---> it's supposed to be near 90 again today.

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), April 17, 2002.

Well, I'm from northern Wisconsin and I've lived in southern Wisconsin for many years. In my experience, Victoria, the central part of the state gets the WORST weather. Up north, if they're getting honest snow, and down here we're getting rain, in the central part, you're getting sleet, freezing rain, ice, and wind. Not to mention tornadoes in the summer, but that's another story . . .

I think the wet and windy weather in central Wisconsin could easily give you problems. You might get lucky and have a mild winter like this one just past. Or you might have one like in '95-'96. Remember Tax Day? Was 87* here this year. Six years ago, I was in northern Wisconsin on that day (engraved in my memory for other reasons), and there was over 2 feet of snow on the ground and it was snowing. That year, winter was hard and long. If you get a winter like that, are you going to be able to haul food and water to the horse through deep snow? Are you going to be able to keep the water from freezing? Horses WILL drink water if it's warm enough. Too cold or frozen, and they'll go without, often to their detriment. All things to think about, along with the other information others have posted.

-- Joy F {in Southern Wisconsin} (CatFlunky@excite.com), April 17, 2002.

The loafing shed, 3 sides and a roof, is not only more than sufficient, it's healthier for the stock than a barn. The opening should face south. I have friends in Minnesota who also only use loafing sheds.

The shed(s) should be large enough for the critters to lay down and still not be rained/snowed on, should they choose to use the shed(s).

Many of us have had stock who never use the sheds; they prefer to stay out in the open. That's fine. It's their choice. But why didn't they tell us before we spent all that money!! -LOL-

-- ~Rogo (rogo2222@hotmail.com), April 17, 2002.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course...well, sometimes yes, and sometimes no.

A lot of it depends on your horse. Assuming that the horse is A. Young, B. Healthy, C. Grows a good hair coat, D. Has adequate shelter from wet conditions, E. You have no flies, and lastly, Your horse has no outstanding health conditions that indicate otherwise, then the answer is yes -- three-sided is okay.

However, as pointed out already, central Wisconsin does have some weather that is worse at times than either end of the state. Everything goes straight through across the Hwy. 29 route it seems. Fresh air and unlimited excercise are the best preventatives to maladies such as heaves (COPD) and colic, but just turning the horse out has some drawbacks too. If you are not handling the horse twice a day (such as leading him in and out), many injuries and illnesses go unnoticed until the damage is done, so you have to make sure that you go out in whatever the weather, find the horse wherever he is, catch him, and inspect.

If you get a sick horse, it's awfully nice to have a stall where you can observe, treat, and nurse the horse, as needed. And occasionally a horse has to be confined to a stall for health reasons for weeks on end. If you go with a run-in shed arrangement, think in advance about how you can turn it into a box stall if the need arises. Some friends of mine put up a garage shell for their horses in Denmark (WI) that worked out fairly well, and made arrangements that they could section it off if need be (and they did need to at one point and another) and keep horses seperated and restricted.

In the summer when the flies get terrible, the horses all want to stay in the barn rather than go outside because the flies are reluctant to go into the dark interior and stay out in the sunlight. The horses have that figured out, as well as it being shady and cooler in there. The horses that are on rough board have to endure it as best they can, sometimes with bloody legs and huge welts from bites. They go into the run-in sheds, but it isn't dark enough to keep the flies out. Deer-flies especially do not like to go into a dark barn and stay out, same for horse-flies. The outdoor horses sweat off the flyspray at least twice as fast as the horses that get stabled. Despite fly programs, we always seem to have a new crop every year -- likely they just move in from the farm down the road.

Also, if you go with a run-in shed, I would really recommend getting the ground surface level to begin with, and putting down rubber stall mats. It will save you a lot of headache in future to have them down and throw shavings over top of them. If it's left dirt, pretty soon it has holes pawed and stomped in it that you have to go and fill in (and they promptly wallow out again), and stops the urine from soaking into the ground and becoming a stinking mud mess in the spring and summer. Same thing goes for stalls tho too. Get ones with good traction and take the time to lay them right the first time -- it is SO much easier than trying to redo it later!! Also build it up high enough so that the spring snow melt and heavy summer rains don't all drain into it. I've seen any number of fancy barns and rough shelters alike,where they forgot all about that that flood out in the spring time. (inevitably, THAT is when the horse gets sick and you need the confinement area.) Having a caged light inside and a covered electrical outlet is also a real big must-have on my list so I can see what is going on in the middle of the night without trying to hold a flashlight in my teeth while groping around for the horse's leg, trying to take a temperature, or checking gums for a refill time.

Other than that, I'd advise a south to southeast opening -- it will help you catch the winter sun for warmth, and is away from the prevailing storm patterns.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), April 18, 2002.

Julie, I think you assume too much. A three sided shed, with roof, against the prevailing wind is sufficient. And water about 20 degrees above freezing is sufficient. Unless, as has been pointed out, the horse is a warm blood. This is a "bred" horse. Not natural. Requires special attention and the owner would know that. A "natural" horse will be fine, with shelter against wind.

I'm from a family who have been in horses since the 1600's. I'm amazed now days at the advice. Just can't imagine how those critters survived before the advent of man. Level? Why? Natural drain. Just be sure that the entire hillside doesn't drain into the shelter.

Horses, if bred correctly are hardy. If you breed warm bloods, you know before you get into the breeds that they require special treatment. (Read that not natural to North America) Hmmm, sorry, but I'm Morgan and Quarterhorse leaning. Thoroughbred is for a specific duty, and I think that is limiting their instincts and general health. I'll shut up now, lol.

-- Dennis Enyart (westwoodcaprine@yahoo.com), April 18, 2002.

I think your horse will be fine with a run-in shed, though if he's like most horses he won't use it much. If you get a horse that doesn't grow much of a winter coat(like my Saddlebreds), you can always get a turn-out rug for him to cut the wind and keep him from getting wet down to the skin. The main thing is to ensure that the horse has access to plenty of hay and unfrozen water. As far as the opening on the shed, it should be away from prevailing winter winds on that particular piece of property.

-- shakeytails in KY (shakeytails@yahoo.com), April 18, 2002.

I dunno, Dennis, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree in this situation. Even 25 years ago, when I was a teen, a horse was old at 20 due to lack of parasite prevention, and general care. Horses in the "good ole days" simply did not lead the longer productive lives that that do now, due to better care. Horses did live without human intervention, but they were old and died in the early teens. I have to take exception to the TBs are only good for one thing idea too- I have a 9 year old OTT mare that my 9 year old niece rides--she's a dead head. She'll be bred to a nice Oldenburg cross in June for a warmblood sale baby to support my horse habit. I wish I had four more like her. I like Quarter Horses and Morgans too--I have a QH and Morab on the farm now.

My family has been in horses for years too- I just read a wonderful article in a newspaper about a team of draft mares (I wish I knew what breed but the article didn't say) that my great great grandfather owned and delivered milk with in the early 1800's.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), April 18, 2002.

~ Although a long time(since early/mid 70s) SW desert dweller, am originally from Eau Clair, & feel compelled to put my 3 cents in: you gotta! have somthing if some of the 30/30 winters repeat. 30 days in a row with wind-chill temps 30Below F or Colder. The breed & how acclimated/seasoned the animal is are also considerations, i.e. if a 130 degree tolerant animal was hauled north to a severe winter approaching circumstance, a run-in would'nt be sufficient. In a similar yet reversed situation, just shade WOULD NOT be adequate for a northern acclimated animal, while a `local` can get by w/o even shade for a few...

-- Re Load (RELOAD@abilnet.com), April 18, 2002.

Dennis -- let's not turn this into another one of those you-know-what matches that happens every time horse care gets raised and someone says that a horse is a natural creature that can survive on tree bark and -60 F temps 'because wild horses do'.

The horse is pregnant? I can't seem to find that in the original post that the horse is bred. Nor do I see that the horse is a Warmblood -- TB & Draft breed cross. Was this posted somewhere else??

Why would you assume that my family has had horses any shorter a time than yours has? My family were horsekeepers for generations in Germany before they moved to the U.S. and we have old photos of the mustang team that the family drove to the woods where they carved out their homestead. Let's not have the "My credentials are better than yours" junk again, it gets really tiresome on this site when you try and help out people and cover bases as to what will be useful and wise in planning, only to have someone else cop attitude every blessed time.

Just for your information, my Arabs and PartArabs are far hardier tham my QH is -- he can't make it through the winter without a stall and a blanket. Generalizations are fine up to a point, and since none of us can see Victoria's horse here and are unfamiliar with it's requirements and hers, let's think outside our own little box. ReLoad brought up an excellent point -- we had one heck of a time trying to sell a pony brought in for resale that had it's ears frozen off by being left outdoors in a 'natural' condition. This is a Shetland pony, one of the hardiest breeds in the world, and it's ears were frozen off. I will assume that you do not know that Wisconsin, even mid-Wisconsin, can and DOES experience bouts of -60 F with windchills that hit -100, as well as the entire month of January never rising above a daily high temperature of -30F. Mustangs die like stinkbugs out in the 'natural' world.

If I was assuming too much by assuming that people who keep horses want to keep them healthy and prevent large vet bills, or that they want to keep the horse in a situation that will be enjoyable for both them in working with the horse and the horse itself, or that they may want to merely protect their 'investment' in the animal and the land, well, gee, sorry, but I'm going to keep repeating it. I gave the pros and cons as I have seen them in our area -- what the poster wants to ultimately do is up to them.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), April 18, 2002.

I have been avoiding this thread like the plague, no two horse people will ever agree about the same thing. I can only tell of my experiences. Horses out here, in western Ok, are kept out in pastures year round, some with only a small clump of trees to back up to. I know mine would rather stand out in the weather than to be cooped up in a stall, I think it's healthier for them anyway. Like most of you have said, they would rather stand outside of the barn than in it. And those of us that have herds of horses wouldn't be able to build barns big enough for all of them! LOL! I'll have to agree too that horses got along just fine without man. They weren't fenced in and had access to natural nutrients and needs for good health. I vote for the loafing shed. We have nasty weather here, snow, sleet and the tornados, but a person living in your area or state would know more about your situation weather wise, than I would. In the 40 years I've raised quarter horses, I've never lost one due to bad health, AND I've called the vet once. (That was for a new- born). Horses were meant to have wide open spaces and fresh air. Go for the loafing shed. Best wishes!

-- cowgirlone in ok (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), April 18, 2002.

Something else that comes to mind -- a horse by itself will be unhappy. They are herd animals. Not saying you HAVE to have another horse, but a lone horse will experience more stress and thus be more susceptible to anything our weather throws at him/her. I have heard of horses enjoying the companionship of some other four-foot if you can't get/afford another horse. Such as a goat, sheep, donkey, even saw one horse who had a llama for a companion.

As for horses needing natural conditions, yes, this is beneficial . . . USUALLY. However, our climate and grazing in Wisconsin is NOT the same as their natural range, which is drier grassland. As I, and several others, have already pointed out, it is cold and rather damp here in the winter. Also, a barn is not necessarily lacking in fresh air. It depends on how it's built.

Some more information from Victoria about this point would be helpful! Any more information you can give?

-- Joy F {in Southern Wisconsin} (CatFlunky@excite.com), April 18, 2002.

I am the "tharp" in Victoria's e-mail adress An update::: We adopted a 2 yr old paint stallion at auction from Large breeder in South Dakota. Heltzel Ranch in Midland SD. He is sheltered on three sides by a run down shed on one side, a barn in the process of falling down to the East and a steel machine shed to the south that we do not have permission to use according to the land lord. I am willing to construct what ever shelter he may require within reason. Obviously I don't what to construct a major horse facillity on land I am only renting. Thank you for the helpful discourse you have started. your answers are greatly appreciated!

-- Paul Tharp (pthar@landolakes.com), April 22, 2002.

Hello Paul -- I was looking through old threads for a subject tonight and found this old one that you may want to look at -- http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=005IhK

If you are willing to construct a 3-sided run-in shed for your own use, chances are that in most situations your horse should be fine, just so long as we dont get any more of those really nasty winters. I was going to mention Shelter-Alls, but they were rather pricey when I saw them last at the Horse Fair. A couple people on the old thread mention things about them if you want to pursue it.

Some friends of mine built a run-in for their three horses out of cut- off slab lumber from their own lumbermill, nailed up onto full-round log uprights and even shingled the roof with them. It was very economical and well ventilated. If you're there temporarily, and have access to slabs, it's not a bad way to go. I've also seen ads in the horse magazines for frame kits for building your own sheds by adding plywood, but my experience with horses and plywood is that the horse ends up eating it. Just too expensive. Do you have anyone around who is rough sawing lumber? We've knocked together a few run- ins with rough sawn and used sledge hammers to take them back down again when we wanted to move them. If you're not staying there and don't want to spend a fortune, look around to see who is selling rough sawn and cut-offs at a decent price.

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), April 24, 2002.