Frugal Tip of the Day

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

I feel like an overzealous religious convert about this, so please bare with me.

With a family of seven, we are huge consumers of trees, in the form of toilet paper. I'm talkin' by the case. I truly freaked out when trying to figure our needs for a Y2K stash, I'd of had to build another addition, just to hold the toilet paper!

For years, I've been intrigued with something I'd never seen and could only imagine, a bidet. I've had European friends over the years bemoan the fact that we Americans prefer to smear our excrement with toilet paper, rather than actually cleanse ourselves.

I started looking around for bidet options, and was put off with the expense of installing a separate fixture in our already tight bathroom. In my search, I came across another option, a portable bidet. It consists of simple wand that you can attach to any faucet or water source. The cost was $40.00, far less than any other option I could find. There are other options that actually attach right to an existing toilet seat for $56.00. I figured if it worked it would quickly pay for itself and sent off for one.

We loved ours from the very beginning! It really works, and there is always a feeling of freshness. It probably has helped out our septic system as well, not having to eat up all that toilet paper. No more skid marks! Wish we'd have had one when the kids were infants. Apparently they shine on older folks or handicapped folks that need assistance with their toilet. People suffering from hemorrhoids REALLY appreciate 'em!

We liked 'em so well, we started to sell them. If anyone would like to give up the roll, drop me a e-mail, we can send you more information or an actual bidet. The cost includes shipping anywhere in the U.S.

-- Tis I (really_tis_i@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002

Answers

I have always had one question about bidets. After using them, do you just "drip dry", use a fan, a towel, or what?

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.

I would imagine something, to drip dry would take to long .And come to think of it would you want guests to be drying there butts with the same towel you use ? So then we are back to some kind of disposable paper or alot of laundry .

-- Patty Gamble (fodfarms@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.

Actually, it's a common question and one I should have put in my original post.

Simple answer, your choice. Six out of our seven "shake it" and the other uses a tiny bit of conventional paper. Frankly, there isn't that much water involved, it's a tiny stream. I've never used a water pick, but I imagine it to be about like that.

-- Tis I (really_tis_i@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002.


Okay, stupid question alert!

Do you ever have guests "surprised" by the stream of cold water? I assume it doesn't warm the water first, but then there's the energy question....

A squirt bottle can work too, and costs less--or even free, if you find a nice bottle to reuse, although you may have to worry about it falling in, depending upon the size of the bottle, lol. One of my friends uses a bottle she was given at the hospital to rinse her stiches with after giving birth.

That would be a good gift for a handicapped or older person.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 15, 2002.


Well, I have to say that we have only used the portable model, which hooks right up the the bathroom sink with an included diverter valve. You just adjust the desired temperature and pull the diverter.

Since one of our other frugal tips is to turn off the water heater until just before needing hot water, and since we have gravity water from a creek, which in the winter is right around 32 degrees, we have on occasion used just cold water. It is suprisingly bearable, although, certainly not as pleasant as warm water. I think it must have something to do with body heat or maybe your nether regions are just frozen by the cold water.

-- Tis I (really_tis_i@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002.



Well another "Bidet 101" question. Everyone here is just about sold on the idea but a couple more questions have come up in our discussion. This will sound REALLY stupid I am sure and not quite sure how to put it other than to just come right out with it, but we have all been wondering...what about differant size behinds? One size fits all? Do you have to "adjust" your whereabouts on the toliet seat? What about visitors with really large butts..do you have to "spread" so to speak? Please excuse our ignorance, but we have absolutely NO bidget experience among any of us!

-- Karen (mountains_mama2@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.

Okay, just making sure I understand the set up. For the portable model your commode needs to be located near the sink, right? And to use it you first turn on the sink, adjust the temperature and then switch the diverter. Have I got the right idea?

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybesst.com), April 15, 2002.

Hehehe I had a good laugh thinking about what kind of reaction I'd get if I proposed using something like this(hubby would probably have me committed). Some peoples sinks aren't right next to their toilets so that would present a problem(certainly not gonna wash your business end in the sink!). I bet if you thought about it and visited your local plumbing store you could come up with a way to splice it into the water supply line going to your toilet :o). That way you also wouldn't have the inconvenience of hooking it up and removing it from your sink.

-- Amanda (mrsgunsmyth@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.

Well, that was what I originally thought too, that it was running off the water used to fill the tank. Real Goods (a real shame they sold out to Gaiam, by the way, imho they'd have been better off to hook up with Seventh Generation) used to sell a little "wash tray" that fit where your tank cover fit, so you'd wash your hands after you flushed, and the soapy water I assume went into the tank.

The other problem (besides if you only have your hot water heater on at certain times), is that depending upon how far your bathroom is from the heater, you can waste 2-3 gallons waiting for it to warm up.

Although, I suppose you could always nuke some water and stick in a thermos for the day, pouring water into the squirt bottle as needed....

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 15, 2002.


Heh heh, I don't think there can be any silly questions when it comes to this subject. As to your question Karen, I really can't answer it because we wondered the same thing. That is why we use the portable model. Our hineys range from my very large one to the smallest childs. The attached model is adjustable, but I would imagine that it would necessitate some scooting around to be effective for different people. Another advantage of the portable model is that it can be used from the front or the back. There was a bit of learning curve for the younger ones in that they got wet the first time trying to use the valve mounted on the wand with one hand, by their second use, everyone got the idea and now it's just second nature.

And as for you Bren, yup, you have it exactly right. If you need more a longer hose for your particular application, I believe I could get the manufacturer to make it as long as you need it. The hose supplied has worked for every one we've sold though.

-- Tis I (really_tis_i@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002.



You are correct Amanda, the supplier can supply a permanent hook up for attaching and adusting the temperature under the sink or to any other water supply source. We have just kept it simple and used the diverter valve which stll allows use of the sink for its intended purposes. The only thing I've added to our unit is a button of velcro to attach the wand to the cabinet on the front of the sink.

-- Tis I (really_tis_i@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002.

Hmmm, I lived in England for 3 years and I didn't know that was how bidets were used. I always assumed it was mostly a woman/girl thing. I remember when I had my kids and was healing all the tender parts of my body I was given a Pari-bottle for cleaning those areas. I actually still have it and use it if I feel a yeast infection coming on. Anyway, it is nothing more than an 8 ounce plastic bottle with a pull up nozel on it. This one is 12 years old. Hmmmm, I wonder if I could market them?

I wonder if your youngest one will know what to do with toilet paper? I don't mean to make fun of your idea it is wonderful yoou and your family are making such an effort. I've been trying to get my boys to sit down while they pee so the floor and seat do't get so gross. I don't care how careful you guys think you are it still gets gross. I don't think they would ever give up the TP, or sit while they pee.

My thoughts, Susan

-- Susan in MN (nanaboo@paulbunyan.net), April 15, 2002.


Thanks for answering my questions. Don't think it'll work in our current bathroom but when we put in the other one, we'll keep this in mind.

GT, Seventh Generation is now Harmony and is also part of Giam. I, too, was disappointed that Real Goods joined with Giam. I always thought their prices were more reasonable... Not the case any more!

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), April 15, 2002.


LOL...no more skidmarks!

When I was in college, our chamber music group went to Europe. One of the sopranos was a red neck gal and not very culturally savy. When we checked into our hotel in Strasbourg, France, she went to the bathroom, came out and announced they had this cool thing in there for washing your feet in and that it worked great. :-)

I have at least 2 of the Peri-Wash bottles from a 1987 and 1988 births. They really are great little things to have around. I've used one to rinse with and "freshen up" as someone else has described but they also are very handy as alcohol, witch hazel, or vinegar hair rinse dispensers.

The bidet alternative sounds great and should save on lots of TP.

To the one with little boys that won't sit...It's easier if they are trained that way in the first place. Otherwise, your option is to just wipe down the toilet and surrounding area on a daily basis.

-- Lavender, Central Maryland (lavenderbluedilly@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.


Huh I don't have the problem with the guys getting the bathroom all nasty. Hmmmm could it be they fear the wrath of mama?! Sure fire way to break men from leaving the toilet seat up......go in and sit down in cold water when you are about 8 months pregnant....scream bloody murder...get them to help you out of the toilet....make them sit in that icy cold water! Worked for me :o).

-- Amanda (mrsgunsmyth@hotmail.com), April 15, 2002.


I never felt I had any more right to have the toilet seat put down for me than they had to have me put it back up for them.

-- Gayle in KY (gayleannesmith@yahoo.com), April 15, 2002.

My dads buddy installed one of the permant washer of the nether region devices in his house. I (I was 7 or so) was visiting, and thought it was a water fountain!- it was mounted on a diferent bowl than the toilet- right next to the toilet. Whooops! I will say that that bugger had some serious pressure- the water could hit the ceiling if you opened it up a ways.

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), April 15, 2002.

Sears & Roebuck or corn cobs.

-- Susan in Michigan (cobwoman@yahoo.com), April 16, 2002.

It is a woman's solemn duty, in due consideration for her menfolk, to leave the seat of the urinal up after she has used it.

Now, on a serious note, men generally aim pretty good from standing, and men-children MUST not only know how but do it automatically or they'll get a terribly rubbishing at some stage from people who'll assume they're homosexual or effeminate. However, what DOES make a mess is where people have used a kindergarten toilet for adult-sized people in an effort to economise. Toilets ARE different sized, and a substantially sized adult male has to do a fair amount of manouevering to get himself set on a five-year-old-sized toilet. Given that men tend to be more oriented toward heaven in some respects than are women, if someone has indulged in some medium- permanent false-economising, they are going to have to deal with fire- hose pressure splashing, dribbling, or outright gushing outside from under the seat. I'd suggest that some of this sort of problem may be because male-type folk DO sit down to urinate (and probably other things as well). Given that the owner of the toilet is going to get stuck with cleaning up this mess, I can't think of a worse way to save money than to install, or leave installed, anything other than the biggest toilet bowl you can find.

Have a nice day now.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), April 16, 2002.


What the hell is all this rubbish about men peeing on the bathroom floor? I would no more stand and wet the floor my wife has to clean than I would tolerate her dumping kitchen garbage on my garage floor.

Anyone who thinks that it is unmanly to sit down to urinate has real gender identity issues. What sort of boor makes extra, and repulsive, work for the woman he is supposed to love? What we do in a public building at a urinal has no bearing on what we do with a commode at home.

If one of my sons or brothers had given his mama trouble over this issue he would have had one big problem with me. Now, on the other hand, when outdoors, we sometimes tried to see who could come closest to putting out the campfire. It was always funny to see how long it took the youngest to learn not to stand downwind when he was putting out the fire.

Mac

-- Jimmy S (Macrocarpus@gbronline.com), April 16, 2002.


Well, I just remembered one of those cute sayings I've seen:

"My aim is to keep this bathroom clean--your aim will help."

Also, along those same lines, here is a website that has information for the ladies for an alternative method instead of sitting....

http://www.restrooms.org/standing.html

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 16, 2002.


Where have you girls been all your lives? Women in the orient have been relieving themselves while standing for centuries. My neighbor next door was regularly beaten by his female cousin when they were kids trying for distance and arc.

What I want to know is where was I when all these drunken college girls (as mentioned in the link above) were doing their thing? All the girls I knew were sober as judges, though a bit less reserved. Mac

-- Jimmy S (Macrocarpus@gbronlinel.com), April 16, 2002.


I made my own bidet for free. I followed the directions provided by one of those home improvements shows on TV. It is made from an old dishwasher that someone had thrown out.

--Happy trails, Cabin Fever

P.S. Oh yeah, I think the name of the TV show was "Red Green"

-- Cabin Fever (cabinfever_mn@yahoo.com), April 16, 2002.

Bren, Real Goods is part of Gaiam, but not Seventh Generation (I looked up both RG and SG websites and RG has the Gaiam logo on it, but not SG), although Gaiam carries their (SG's) products. Harmony is but one of 5 differently targeted catalogues from Gaiam--not a company per se. I agree, the prices have gone up significantly.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 16, 2002.

Thanks, GT. I had just assumed that when the catalog "Seventh Generation" changed its name to "Harmony", the company just retained the SG label for their cleaning/paper good products. It's good to know that SG is still a separate entity.

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), April 16, 2002.

does it pulsate? lol

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), April 17, 2002.

I always found European bidets very odd and uncomfortable to use. I had one of those flexible dishsprayers installed next to our toilet. It was new construction, so it was easy enough to have a hot/cold mixer valve installed, too. Expanded the plumber's horizons. It works great. I usually run the water into the toilet till it get to the right temperature.

I think it would be absolutely the best thing for diaper changing to have a fold down platform which could drain directly into the toilet, use the dishsprayer and have a nice clean baby bottom every time. Bet it would eliminate diaper rash.

-- snoozy (bunny@northsound.net), April 17, 2002.


I read this entire thread and can't believe that no one mentioned the waste of WATER using this method. (Not to mention the waste that goes into flushing a toilet! Ours is a composting toilet.)

Unfortunately, unless you go for the Sears catalog and corncob ideas mentioned earlier, I can't think of anything that works better than toilet paper. (And you'd truly need "buns of steel" for those options!) Of course, you can still cut down (no pun intended) on tree consumption by using paper products made from recycled POST-consumer pulp. (A tree can only die once, and with post-consumer recycled paper products, THAT already happened.)

And to Gayle - I can prove that it is more appropriate for guys to put the seat down than for women to put it up. It's a simple matter of math. Figure that women use it in the DOWN position 100% of the time. Guys use it in the DOWN position at least 30% of the time (we're talking averages here!). So... that means that out of a possible total of 100% of all toilet use, it will need to be in the DOWN position a minimum of 65% of the time and in the UP position only a maximum of 35% of the time. DOWN wins! I rest my case. (This is how I broke my husband and ended my midnight splashes in the bathroom pool. When we still used the watery kind.)

-- Deborah Stephenson (wonkaandgypsy@hotmail.com), April 17, 2002.


Deborah, you mean you just plunk yourself down there without looking first? You must have great faith, and a severe shortage of spiders.

On the "buns of steel" side (so to speak), I agree. I also agree about the water use side of things - bidets can only work where you have no shortage of water, and that isn't in most of Australia. However, I can wish, can't I? Particularly on those days when the Rectinol or Preparation H is a screaming essential, and even the most "softer gentler tissue" feels like glass-paper, and acts like it too.

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), April 17, 2002.


Deborah, that is true, but if you collected water from the shower/sink while waiting for it to get hot (in our shower, it's a bucket or so), and poured it into the "pari-bottle" mentioned earlier, or another squirt bottle, that wouldn't be so wasteful. Leaves could be used in the summer, but not in winter....lol.

We've thought about a composting toilet, but don't know how well they go over when trying to resell a house later on (especially if it had not been built with toilet plumbing (say if you needed to reconnect) to begin with)--they always struck me as being great for out in the barn, or a hunting cabin. And don't they use electrical energy as well to assist in the composting (I think some run on solar, but not everyone gets enough sun :)?

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 17, 2002.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ