eBay - toolsunlimited

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

Hi all, Just want to know if anyone has dealt with this company on eBay. I ordered a guitar from them March 10, paid for it and still don't have it. Now I have another one of their customers emailing me about a similar issue (he got my address from the feedback complaint I left). There were other negative feedbacks when I made the purchase so I know, my mistake. I'm not here to whine or complain, just curious to know if anyone else has run across this and wanted to warn any future buyers. The other compliants are all variations on the same theme: slow shipping, wrong products shipped, slower shipping on replacements, never receiving the item all. Guess I won't be buying from anyone else that has negative feedback. Lesson learned. Stace

-- Stacey (stacey@lakesideinternet.com), April 09, 2002

Answers

Stacie, Yes, . . it's a good idea to stay away from those with negative feedback. One or even two you can contribute to a cranky troublemaker. . . . .but. . . . do you know how difficult it is to get negative feedback? ? ? ? It's my experience that most buyers just give a positive even if they have been ripped off on postage, experienced slow shipping or poor packaging, and even when the sellers have been discourteous. The return negative retaliation by a seller is major imtimidation. Ebay makes you jump through hoops to post a negative. Their admonitions to " try all other means of resolution" before you hit that send button are somewhat intimidating as well.

I don't sell on Ebay - - just a buyer for a lot of years - and Ebay is NOT a buyer friendly place. Buyers are at the bottom rung of the ladder into . . . . . . . ( fill in the blank). Buyers take ALL the risks in ALL transactions. Think on that. My pet peeve is paying "handling" charges, or the old "overhead expenses" for sellers, and most especially being gouged on postage which happens in two out of three deals. It is "supposed" to be an AUCTION. Don't even get me started on the shill bidding that is rampant over there.

*If* you find yourself involved in a dispute with a seller, they have all sorts of remedies to punish YOU. Block you from bidding, get you listed with warnings as a non-paying bidder, refusing to ship the item, and meanwhile, there is NO recourse to the buyer for likewise intimidation. The buyers have to do all the footwork to catch the crooks, and Ebay has, over the course of time made that nearly impossible to do unless you want to spend all your free time in front of the monitor.

Oh, I forgot to mention another trick I've had pulled on me twice in the same day. Waiting till just moments before an auction to make sure I had the last and highest bid, I've had sellers PULL ( cancel) the auction within a minute of it's close - - because they were not getting their price, and EBAY says that is just fine with them, as long as there is a good enough excuse offered. The excuses are usually, "error in the listing". Then, it NEVER shows up on the seller's record. The item just appears as if it NEVER had a bid placed on it. You have to look at the bid history page to discover this little scam!

Ebay is NOT looking out for the interests of the bidders in my never humble opinion - - so ALWAYS try your best to look out for yourself, and be aware of the many ways you can be scammed over there.

Judy

-- Judy (JMcFerrin@aol.com), April 09, 2002.


Well, I'd like to put my 2 cents in as a seller on Ebay.

We don't charge 'handling' charges - our buyers pay only exact shipping charges.

HOWEVER, this may soon change!

We pay for boxes, bubble wrap, labels, tape, etc....

Then last month after I had a 2-piece item all nicely & securely packaged, I had a lady ask me to re-package the 2 pieces each in their own box, then in a larger box.......I almost told her to go pound sand, but I didn't say a word, except, "of course."

I've had 3 people totally disappear into who-knows-where after winning an item....they were never to be heard from again, so I'm stuck re-listing or ?? The only time I give negative feedback is if someone doesn't pay me or communicate with me. I had one lady apologize for winning saying she didn't have the money. Even though I have no idea why she bid on it in the first place, I gave her the benefit of the doubt & just didn't leave any feedback at all - good or bad.

I try to be fair & expect the same thing from the buyers.

I disagree that the "buyer takes ALL the risks in ALL the transactions"....we sellers get the short end of the stick MANY times.

I guess we're all learning as we go!

-- heather (h.m.metheny@att.net), April 09, 2002.


Hi Stacey,

I've been both at ebay. Been craped on as a buyer and as a seller. Just recently my wife got scammed out of $100. Ebay has no intentions of helping her or the other 26 bidders get their money back.

At ebay (or any online auction) "BUYER BEWARE" there's good folk on both sides and there plenty of crooks. As for toolsunlimited go in at ebay and get their phone number. Call them, O-F-T-E-N-! :o)

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), April 09, 2002.


Heather, I have been buying on Ebay since around the time of it's inception, or close too it. Maybe 93? I have had NO negative comments to my record, so you know I'm not an albatross around the necks of sellers. There are lots of good ones. . . . and I've dealt with them. Still, the system is NOT buyer friendly.

I have heard the same gripes from other sellers Heather, about the cost of packaging, blah, blah, blah. I call that overhead. Should be added into YOUR cost of selling. Many sellers start items at retail prices, then add a reserve to boot. And. . . I have NEVER heard of a single seller refunding tremendous profits they gain in bidding wars on "hot" items or high demand categories and it is a rare day indeed where I see a sale that cost someone their shirt. ( Locked in starting prices is one reason). You see, my gripe with EBAY . . . AUCTION. . . .is that it really resembles EBAY. . . . storefront. Sellers are NOT using it as a true auction venue, nor does EBAY run it that way. My ethical stance is it should be what it calls itself.

As to jeopardy. If you have a non-performing high bidder and your transaction is not completed,. . . Ebay refunds any fees you paid to list, and you relist. You may have lost some time, but. . . .

If a buyer runs into a non-performing seller, ( crook) they usually run out of what little recourse they may have ( Ebay time limits) before they realize they have been scammed. The best preventive medicine for a buyer on Ebay is to use a credit card.

If you give it some thought, I still think you will concur that it is the buyer who takes the brunt of the risks.

-- Judy (JMcFerrin@aol.com), April 09, 2002.


I have given it some thought & I still don't agree.....you can read that as "blah, blah, blah" if you wish! :)

-- heather (h.m.metheny@att.net), April 09, 2002.


Use a good credit card to make purchases with and you'll have alot more means of protecting yourself. Most credit card companies have a charge back buyer protection policy. It's alot safer than paying by other methods.

99% of my time on Ebay is selling. I don't charge actual shipping. But I make the terms very clear and state the shipping rate in the listing. I have a perfect feedback. Nobody has ever complained about paying a bit more for shipping because I only ship in new boxes and pack very carefully and ship out within 24 hours of the auction ending, which apparently many on there don't do. Lots of other businesses charge shipping and handling, why can't I? If the bidder had a problem with it, they are free to not bid on the item. I doubt I've lost many sales because of shipping fees. I've never minded paying more than actual postage as long as it's reasonable. If I want the item all I care about is the total end cost. It's a hassle sometimes to win a bid on there and then wait until the seller gets back with the shipping cost and other details.

I put all that info in my listings and it saves alot of the back and forth emailing to complete a transaction. After the auction ends, on average I get one email from the bidder, usually a payment confirm from Paypal, and then I send one out as a receipt and that's it. It saves both of us time.

My best advice to a frequent Ebay bidder, use a credit card(pay it off every month). You don't have much recourse with other methods of payment.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 09, 2002.


You sellers might already know but I thought I'd mention you can get unlimited free shipping supplies from the USPS if you're using Priority to ship with. You order them online and they usually arrive a few days later, for free. No bubble wrap but all the boxes, tape and labels you need. The catch is you can't use any other means but Priority to ship those boxes with. Some people do turn the boxes inside out or cover with wrapping paper. I've found several times that Priority is cheaper than PP or 1st class depending on where it's going. You can also get free shipping confirms if you print them from the USPS site. Just thought I'd mention.

http://supplies.usps.gov/

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 09, 2002.


I'm mostly a buyer on ebay. Really frustrating when sellers play games with shipping. They should state upfront either one fee for everybody or give their zip and say exact postage cost or exact postage cost plus so much handling. Usually in my experience though, if you are interested in something that doesnt have single price shipping mentioned, should email the seller with your zipcode for a firm quote. Also email if you have slightest question about the item. If they are prompt and polite in reply and give open unhesitant reply, it is usually a good person to deal with. If they blow you off or give some unrealistic shipping quote, or a fuzzy answer dont bid.I've bought several items off ebay, and the only two time I felt cheated was when I didnt follow my own guidelines in who to deal with. Otherwise never had any bad surprises. Some sellers even go above and beyond in making something right. Best deals on ebay just like anywhere else are when neither side feels cheated. Interesting side note, I rarely see anybody tell outright lie in their auction. If they sin, its usually a sin of ommission. In other words, its what they dont say that should raise warning flags.

-- HermitJohn (hermit@hilltop_homestead.zzn.com), April 09, 2002.

My thoughts on Ebay,

I sell on ebay, and have a perfect seller record. If I am paid with paypal or epay, I ship as soon as the post office is open. I charge what I get charged for shipping, and I dont include any handling fees, ( I feel like I sold this item I no longer needed or wanted so that was the goal... hoorah for me)

I buy on ebay and have a perfect buyers history. I wont buy from someone who charges handling fees, or that ONLY takes money orders or checks, and I only buy from those who have NO negative feedback.

You have to protect yourself in either case, its a dog eat dog world, dont get caught with milkbone undies.....

-- Kristean Thompson (pigalena_babe@yahoo.com), April 09, 2002.


Judy, correct me if I am wrong but it shows you have only been an eBay member since April of '97, and with only 20 +/- feedbacks. I do not see how you feel qualified to say what you have with such authority. I think you may have a "feel" for what the system does, but I can assure you that when you have done over 100+ transactions you might see a different light.

I will tell you that Feedback means nothing to me (and many others) anymore because that system is SO - OO abused. I have 3 Negative feedbacks out of over 120+ positive ones (and probably double that if transactions that were completed after the auction had ended were counted). One Neg. was received by a lady who wrote (and I quote) Good shipping/product was so-so (even though I have always offered an 110% satisfaction guarantee!), another one wrote something for her mother and it turned out I actually did pay for the item and had already received the item. She hem-hawed and sorta apologized however there is no retraction for that one so you just live by it. Ebay could care less!! The third I have turned into a real battle because the freight was quoted right in the auction listing -- yet when they took the time to check out how much it was to cost they 'freaked'. I sent the money (their quoted freight & closing bid) and they had my money and was holding out for the balance of $60 more. I thought I had come to terms w/ them at splitting the difference and even Fed-Exed the difference only for it to turn into a heated e-mail battle for which Negative Feedback was given to me. People hide behind the fact that they are hundreds of miles away hiding behind a computer screen. Many comments would never be made face to face either!
BOTTOM LINE: It doesn't matter what the feedback says because each auction is a 'new ballgame'. I have also had my auctions cancelled by EBay because I wrote "I reserve the right to cancel bids from Bidder's with excessive negative feedback." Ebay says "...that as long as these user's are in good standing (and meeting the terms set forth by eBay - no more than 3 non-pay complaints) then I MUST accept their bids". Therefore, that was not in compliance with their rules. They did cancel the auction but money was not refunded however they let me 'relist" for free.
I have also had a group of auctions cancelled because I stated that I would ".. accept PayPal if the Buyer would pay the fees charged by PayPal to me." Oops, another no- no (you won't find that one in the user agreement either!). Seller must pay all credit card fees ... that is why you now see many people (me included) not accepting Paypal any longer. Why should I cost myself an additional 3-3 1/2% just to save the Buyer some of "his" time. Let them go purchase a M.O. or a certified check and send it by mail. Yeah it would be cheaper on them to pay the 3 1/2% to save time & fuel. And get one Returned Check for ISF and see how much YOUR bank charges YOU the seller for their returned check. That is why so many require a Postal M.O or a Cashiers Check.

So I bring this to closure saying that there are many "tricks" played out there with shill bidders and etc by BOTH sides. However eBay will never say anthing because that would take money away from their pockets, so both parties are on their own. And, eBay does NOT refund your listing fees ... they let you relist for free. MAJOR DIFFERENCE!!! Matter of fact if you cancel the listing you still pay the listing fees.
So, you see, there are two sides to each transaction and as I see it eBay is not 'friendly' to either the Buyer or the Seller, and they are not an "online auction" -- they are an online Marketplace (not an auction since they are not licensed auctioneers for each of the states in which transactions are held)

So, how are people beating the system? One trick that I see happen (mainly because I have been on the buying end) is the Seller puts a ridiculous reserve on the item. Then because the item is so rare I want it and the Seller wants to sell it so we start negociating. In the meantime eBay does not receive any money except listing fees, which by the way can be charged even before the auction has ended. These Seller's feel like they are getting no assistance from eBay so they just trek out on their own. Another 'stunt' Bidder's do is have two Usernames and let one place a rediculous bid ($400 on a $40 item) and then let their other username place a lower bid. Then the bogus bid is retracted and the 2nd high bidder does not have to honor his bid (they tell eBay once they were outbid they were no longer interested). This is as much a scam too but it boils down to very few people (homesteaders are a small minority!) have decent morals anymore and it is all about how to beat the system (and your fellow citizen)!!

Sorry for the length and I went back and condensed it a couple of times but I stand by my comment - "eBay is only out for what benefit's them, & the Buyers & Sellers are on their own."

-- BRENT in 10-uh-C (eBay: Racer-78) (bt@nospam.com), April 11, 2002.



Paypal is under 3.5% in most case . C2it is even cheaper. Regardless, 2-3% is a small price to pay for the speed and convenience. Just roll that cost into your starting bid or reserve. I guarantee that you lose sales by not offering credit card payments. Paying a credit card company a percentage or monthly fee in order to accept payments is the way it is for any business. Whether you use Paypal or have a merchant account, it's going to cost you to offer that convenience. The cost is well worth it.

With a credit card, the funds are in your hands immediately where they can work for you and collect interest for you if you choose. It takes none of my time at all to accept a credit card. How much time do you spend when you accept a check or m.o? Time is money too.

Anyone not offering credit card payments on Ebay is shorting themselves. I find it amazing people nit-pick over a few %. You can easily make that up other ways in your sales. The sales you lose over not offering credit card payments is not worth the few % you save. Neither is having your funds tied up and the time spent on depositing checks and money orders. Every successful business in America takes credit cards. Think about that.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 11, 2002.


Maybe it is just a difference of what I/you buy & sell. I mostly buy and sell antique car parts (rare and difficult to find stuff) and so the people I deal with do not let the use of Credit Cards influence their decision. I never do either. I might agree with you in unique circumstances when there are several dozen listings of the same item on eBay, that might make someone's listing more attractive, but I assure you if the Buyer truly has the funds to pay for it, AND the buyer really wants the item, they will step up to the terms of the Seller -- Credit Card acceptamce or not!

I do use PayPal on some transactions but I must tell you that maybe I am not looking at PayPal like you are. I prefer to accept Postal Money Orders. I live out of city limits but I when I receive payment for the item, I must go to the Post Office to mail the item anyway. When the Postal Clerk asks for payment for shipping I hand them the Postal M.O. that I received for the item. The clerk gives me my change which in turn is my proceeds.

And tell me, at 3 to 3 1/2% of surcharge for each transaction -- Just how long do you keep your money in "their" account to make the interest paid to you offset the cost of that transaction. I take my proceeds immediately and "re- invest it" so it makes more $$.

And your comment about "Every successful business in America takes credit cards. Think about that." .... man what kind of statement is that?? I guess you are telling me that in my automobile restoration biz that I am not successful, nor is alot of CSA farmers here, or hard working self- employed business people that frequent the Forum here. You do not need to accept Credit Cards to be successful!! I do not accept Credit Cards but I do accept checks and cash with proper identification. [grin]

Dave, you are falling into the same trap that has brought our society to it's knees!! We as true laborers here understand the real meaning of saying "the fruits of our labors". Kinda makes me wonder if you pray for your food and if so, do you really mean what you say when you are Thanking God for Him providing your food? Credit's (credit cards) foundation works off of the premise of greed (wanting something now instead of earning it) ... think about that one!! Society has become impatient, expecting something now, and to the point where they do what ever it takes to get it now. Life was not designed that way. We plant our gardens and continually labor in them so we have a harvest at a later date. Much of today's society have no clue on where essentials come from, much less the value of a dollar. I definately do not want to befriend or belittle you, but I doubt many of the readers here would agree with your philosphy. I think there are many hard working biz- people here that do not "barter" with credit cards. In my eye that does makes them successful!

-- BRENT in 10-uh-C (bt@nospam.com), April 11, 2002.


I sweep funds out of Paypal as quick as possible. Just as a matter of policy since those accounts aren't really protected like banks are. I guess I should have elaborated about making interest. I didn't mean making it from Paypal.

I think you misunderstood part of what I was saying. I don't endorse using credit to live off of at all. I think people who do that are foolish. Unfortunately, it's no big deal for them because they'll just claim bankruptcy when it gets too much for them. And then in a few years they can do it all over again. I definitely think you should use a credit card in some circumstances for the protection it offers but always pay it off at the end of the month. Do not use credit cards for money you do not have.

I never implied that your business isn't successful or that a business cannot be successful without credit cards. I meant to say that credit cards are a part of everyday business and you shouldn't disregard their value, even if it does cost a few %.

I'm not falling into any trap. Life is constantly evolving. Neither me or you can stop society from the path it's on. If people want to be impatient, I won't stand in their way. Especially if they're willing to pay me. If they're going into debt to do that, then that's their problem not mine. Trust me Brent, I know all about the fruits of labor and am no stranger to hard physical labor. I know about harvests too, I ran the farm I grew up on and worked for neighboring farmers at the same time, while I was in school, which I had to skip many days to get things done. Most of my life I've had to work hard. I've been self-employed the past 6 years +. During that time I've also learned working smarter is just as important. In some ways I wish I would have learned that alot earlier.

Basically what I was trying to say is that if you're looking to build a steady business using Ebay, it'll be hard to do that without offering credit card payment options, especially if your competition does.

Ebay is a great resource to people looking for ways to be self-reliant and make a decent income from their homestead. Many people come here looking for a way to get out of the rat-race. Selling products on Ebay can be a solution for some. It can allow you to market the fruits of your labor to millions of people for a very small fee. For what Ebay can offer you it's the best bargain out there for a small business. Services like Paypal are too.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 12, 2002.


I didn't use a good choice of words when I said, "Every successful business in America takes credit cards." I should have elaborated that I was referring to the common mail-order type businesses. I was in that mode of thinking since we're talking about Ebay, which when you get down to it is used as a mail-order type business for the sellers there. Sorry for not being more clear.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 12, 2002.

>>>>>Judy, correct me if I am wrong but it shows you have only been an eBay member since April of '97, and with only 20 +/- feedbacks. I do not see how you feel qualified to say what you have with such authority. I think you may have a "feel" for what the system does, but I can assure you that when you have done over 100+ transactions you might see a different light.<<<<

Brent, you may stand corrected ! ! I stated I had been on Ebay since nearly it's beginning, which I think was around 93 or so. That is correct. Read on.

Do you realize that in the manner you approached me. . . . you have called me a LIAR? ? Where I come from Brent, we don't take things like that lightly. Matter of fact, Bubba, dem's fightin' words. How dare you impugn my integrity for the sake of an argument when you are basically clueless!

I want you to seriously consider what you did here Brent, how many people may read it, and believe the untruth, and how it could affect me. My good name is quite valuable to me ! I work diligently each day of my life to be a person *I* can be proud of.

I was raised by parents who instilled in me the importance of being honest and ethical in all my ventures. I tend to approach all situations expecting other people have been raised just as I was, and that they are just like me. Perhaps my disappointment is greater for that reason, when I encounter greed, avarice, deception. It is so foreign to my upbringing and my own ethics.

If you see me make a comment Brent, it will always be based in the truth as I know it, experience it, or believe it. I'm not given to making up falsehoods.

Oh, for the old days, when simple human values were honorable, and honored.

And by the way, you are also incorrect as to my amount of feedback and Ebay experience. I wish I had less. Maybe I could retire sooner! If you still doubt my veracity - - I would be happy to provide you, privately, with each and everyone of my Ebay ID's, after you ISSUE the APOLOGY you owe me.

Judy

-- Judy (JMcFerrin@aol.com), April 12, 2002.



Dave, your two simultanious posts say "loads of information". Your correction, or better yet clarification explains your position very well and I trust you now see how I came to question what you had written. Again, maybe I am extreme in my thinking sometimes, but when I read, and re-read your statment about success and a credit card I just had to shake my head in disbelief.

Judy, Show me where I called you a "Liar". I feel you made strong opinionated statements, and I questioned the validity of those statements. Just as you said in your closing statments, I AM looking out for my best interest and I just questioned your comments. You should take no offense to that type of research.

Also, explain to me what I am to apologize to you for and I will graciously do so if I have wronged you. I simply said "correct me if I am wrong" ... and that stands ... your username shows you to have been a member since '97 (not 1993) and with only a few feedbacks. Since many people will read your post(s) here, I feel sure you can offer insight on where you received many of the facts you so boldly stated. As for you having multiple eBay usernames, I suppose you realize that is against eBay's Terms of Agreement that you agreed to when you signed up, and therefore it raises ethical issues too. And, since you admittedly do not sell, why would anyone need more than one username?

Maybe I am clueless but maybe I am not. I try to play by the rules AND take an ethical stance as you were trying to point out. I like your attitude as far as what values you stand for. Maybe my Pet Peeve could be that I find it wrong for society as a whole (not saying you specifically unless it applies) to see nothing wrong with 'stretching the truth' or even boldly falsifying statements. Again, I am not saying or implying you did so but since our former President did so in public office and then tried to pass it off, I more closely analize what is said and scrutinize people who I feel may not be forwarding totally factual information. As far as questioning your integrity I did no such thing (or don't see where I did) but I did question your motives on eBay being Buyer Friendly.

In the world of 'free trade' when I own something, I get to set the price I want to sell it for, the types of payment and any applicable surcharge (as long as it is legal). If I make the shipping & handling price known in the auction (inflated or not) the Buyer knows it on the front end before they bid. Therefore IMHO, it is legal AND ethical to charge whatever is reasonable for S&H. Ebay, who set the rules feels that way too. So if the Mediator and the Seller both feel it is proper, and you choose to bid on the item, why is it unethical? No one is forcing you to bid on any item and if you wish you had "less eBay experience", then quit eBaying. I would think that is something you can control.

So, Judy I am sorry for offending you but as I still go back and re-read your earlier posts, I just can't get over how opinionated your first post was so I must continue this and ask.
* Since you don't sell, (just a buyer for a lot of years) how do you have knowledge that the Seller takes no risk?
* Where did the data come from on the "two out of three deals" of inflated postage?
* If you needed to prove that "...shill bidding is rampant over there", how could you do that? Is this information posted somewhere so it can be seen as a "rampant" problem?

Maybe you can see my position as each time I have read what you say, I take it as what you are saying AS the truth and quite frankly you made MANY comments that (although they may be your opinion) do not have truth and factual validity. So I close by saying that Judy I do not consider you a liar but I do question the facts in some of your opinions. Thank you in advance for trying to understand my position here too.

-- BRENT in 10-uh-C (bt@nospam.com), April 12, 2002.


Brent, my last response to you. Got it? If Ebay has a policy against using more than one screen name - show me. . . I haven't seen it. I don't believe they can legally inforce it if they do. Since I am using a screen name connected to a correct email address, as well as my valid identity and correct address. . . . what legal argument would they have against me doing so? And why wouldn't their system catch the multiple ID's connected to the same name and address if they cared? I use different ID's for different categories of items I collect, and sometimes when I don't want family or friends to know what I have bought or what I have spent. . . I use an ID they don't know exists. There is always a method to my madness, . . and . . it is ALWAYS honest and ethical. As to this: >>>>>>>So, Judy I am sorry for offending you but as I still go back and re-read your earlier posts, I just can't get over how opinionated your first post was so I must continue this and ask.<<<<<

LOL! Opinionated. You bet. As to your "sorry for offending me". What a lame half-assed admission.

* Since you don't sell, (just a buyer for a lot of years) how do you have knowledge that the Seller takes no risk?<<< Well Brent, YOU tell me ALL the risks you take, OK? Tell me how many times you have been cheated by scam artists. I have a reasonable degree of intelligence, I've been on Ebay for years, I know what sellers do. . .I know what buyers do. . .you don't have to be a rocket scientist. . . and I NEVER said the seller takes no risks, (another mis-representation) . . I said the BUYER takes ALL the risks.

<<<<<* Where did the data come from on the "two out of three deals" of inflated postage? <<<<< My own pocket book. If I've received ONE package with less postage than I paid - - I've forgotten.( And believe me I check because it is a pet Ebay peeve). The percentage is actually HIGHER than two out of three. It's more like 9.9 of 10.

* If you needed to prove that "...shill bidding is rampant over there", how could you do that? Is this information posted somewhere so it can be seen as a "rampant" problem?

Go to the Trust and Safety message board. You'll find lots of discussions on shill bidding and other scams. I used to spend hours of my own time chasing down the crooks and getting them bumped. It was easier when email addresses were available, and you could see patterns develop, but then on the guise of protecting privacy, LOLH! Ebay took away that option - - and now it takes a lot of time and effort to catch the shills and get them kicked off. It's not hard, (and I'm not offering lessons) for a savvy seller to figure out how to shill and get away with it. You can spot it - -but it is difficult to prove it to Ebay's satisfaction.

And let me add this - - the reserves that many sellers place on items is laughable - but - - I do NOT negotiate with them for items they have to sell. I buy when I'm high bidder, and if a seller offers to sell me an item that did not meet reserve, I advise Ebay of the contact.

>>>Maybe you can see my position as each time I have read what you say, I take it as what you are saying AS the truth and quite frankly you made MANY comments that (although they may be your opinion) do not have truth

Brent, that is such a convoluted statement. . . .where in the heck can I go with it? An opinion is always just that - - an opinion. However truth IS truth, and there is NOTHING I said that was not truthful.

The bottom line where you and I are concerned is this - YOU chose to challenge MY veracity on a personal level, not my opinions. You fed my email address from this forum into the Ebay search engine, found my Ebay ID connected to that address and made assumptions which are incorrect, and then. . . . . you used that incorrect assessment in an attempt to damage my credibility by making it appear I was a liar. For that you should own up!

If you want to challenge me further - personally - take it to email. If you want to continue the thread as to Ebay seller versus buyer - let's tango. I can keep you up all night!



-- Judy (JMcFerrin@aol.com), April 12, 2002.


Looks like alot of negative feedback here tonight...Yikes.

Why isn't it just ok for some folks to have bad experiences and some to have good and just leave it at that...

I find it useful to read honest accounts of people's experiences, but trying to make one's personal Ebay experiences into an interesting intellectual discourse is,...well what is it? It certainly is not Kant.

Oscar

-- Oscar H. Will (owill@mail.whittier.edu), April 12, 2002.


Moderation questions? read the FAQ