Update..Zero Tolerance..

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I'm sorry everyone, I didn't mean to leave everyone hanging over what happen at the meeting with the Division Superintendent (I was stuck in Maryland last night helping my Mom out). The meeting went very well. I was able to keep my cool and I stuck to the subject. I must say that yes, I believe I did intimidate her. I had two request as I entered her office. The first request was to record the meeting, which she would not allow me to do. Since it was just her and I, I figured it wasn't worth arguing over. My second request was for her to allow me to speak first and then I would allow her to comment after I was finished stating what I had to say. I was allowed to speak first and did I speak. I would have made any attorney proud. I stated the facts and I pointed out where the school had violated the children's civil rights. She seemed to be very concerned over the matter and she agreed with most of what I stated. I had material with me from the ACLU and I made sure I quoted them and had a copy for her as well. She called the principal to get verification over the matter with the student that was on medication. The principal straight out lied to the Superintendent on the telephone about the situation with my son. The principal stated to the Superintendent that she had told a teacher to send a referral to the office and the teacher forgot. The principal then said that she got busy and must have forgot also. I told the Superintendent that was not what she stated on the phone. So now I will be writing her to find out just which story is the truth. The other student that caused my daughter to get suspended was only given in school suspension. I made sure I pointed out that they were in violation to their own rules as well as in violation of my daughters civil rights. I did accomplish to get the suspension removed from my daughter's records. As far as the civil rights violation they are still unresolved. I believe she realizes that they are in violation, and I made her aware that I had filed a complaint with the ACLU and the USDOE. She never once apologized although I didn't figure she would. Ardie you would have been proud I kept a serious straight face at all times with her. When the meeting was over and I left the building a smile came over my face that was unbelievable. It felt good to be the intimidator for a change.

Rita

-- Rita (rlynchjarss@aol.com), April 06, 2002

Answers

Well done Rita. I've been thinking about your problems and was wondering how you had got on. I hope it is all finally resolved as you wish it to be.

Alison

-- Alison Homa (alisonhoma@hotmail.com), April 06, 2002.


at the risk of sounding repetitive, here .. ....GODD JOB!!!!

its hard to stay calm when youre so upset, but it sounds like you did a great job , BTW, your kids should be proud they got such a concerned and loving parent!!!!

-- Beth Van Stiphout (willosnake@hotmail.com), April 06, 2002.


BRAVO, Rita! Give yourself a big pat on the back!!

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), April 06, 2002.

Good for you, Rita. Well done.

Just be sure now to do the follow-ups and get everything in writing, especially between the Super and the Principal.

And since you told her you filed a complaint with the ACLU, you must follow up with them as well.

Do not rest until it is resolved to your complete satisfaction. If you let one single thing ride you'll lose standing with them.

Keep that wheel squeaking, lady, we're here with you.

All Praise and Glory to the Father Who Gives Us Strength

-- Michaela (flhomestead@hotmail.com), April 06, 2002.


It's going to be a VERY interesting week!

Rita

-- Rita (rlynchjarss@aol.com), April 06, 2002.



Rita,

I've been thinking about you and how the situation was going. you did an exemplary job, .... heres a *BIG PAT ON THE BACK! Its so hard to be objective when you are in a situation that is subjective such as yours. I hope you both took good notes. When I was on the school board our superintendent always had a yellow legal pad, anytime anyone, including us, his board members talked to him he would whip it out and write. I used to tease him about it, but he said "You never know!" He was a sharp man and a great superintendent too.

Teachers sometimes get overwhelmed and leave themselves wide open, I learned from my old superintendent to always document, document, document. That way when it comes down to the nitty gritty you have all the documentations. You should see my storage shed, boxes of paperwork, and in special ed you get tons.

I am so glad it worked out for you.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), April 07, 2002.


10 attaboys. Just remember too that for every postive comment you recieve on this forum there are at least 25 - 75 or MORE that have not posted.

-- Susan in Northern Lower Penn Michigan (cobwoman@yahoo.com), April 07, 2002.

I hate to tell yah, but it is a common method to allow the parent to sound off first. It allows the parent to hear themself complain. It also allows the admin. to "hear" what the underlying issue is really about. It is not unfair to think that just maybe the principal was that busy. Sometimes they deal with 20 discipline issues a day. That is why educators are told to document everything, for remebering and cya. You could have gotten the suspension removed without a threat of a civil lawsuit. The super had nothing to apologize for since she was not involved in the issue. It is great that you stick up for your kids, but sounds like now you are going overboard a bit. If your daughter ever does mess up and gets in trouble, like any normal kid, they may really discipline with no regrets. hmmmm Make sure she knows that this does not cover all bad behavior.

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), April 07, 2002.

Julie, you should think about what your are saying before you speak, I am responding to you,

>>I hate to tell yah, but it is a common method to allow the parent to sound off first. It allows the parent to hear themself complain. It also allows the admin. to "hear" what the underlying issue is really about

You may call it complaining but I call it standing up for my children's rights! And this was the first meeting that they allowed me to speak first.

>>>It is not unfair to think that just maybe the principal was that busy. Sometimes they deal with 20 discipline issues a day. That is why educators are told to document everything, for remebering and cya.

What she stated to the Super is NOT what she stated to me. It's not like the principal doesn't know who I am, they know me very well as a matter of fact. The school only has around 300 students and four of them students are my children. She lied to cover her ass, but she will be held accountable for her actions as well as her words.

>>>You could have gotten the suspension removed without a threat of a civil lawsuit. The super had nothing to apologize for since she was not involved in the issue.

I'd agree with you but then we would both be wrong. She did have something to do with it. At least she admitted to making that decision, something that the principal herself could not do. I respect people who are honest. I'm not threatening anyone with a civil lawsuit. I stated to her it was not my intentions to sue but to find solutions that will work for all parties involved. If the solutions cannot be made, then a lawsuit may be the next step. If the ACLU say's they will take my case, I will proceed with filing suit against them

>>>It is great that you stick up for your kids, but sounds like now you are going overboard a bit. I'd expect you to make this type of remark since you work for the public school system. You have no idea at all what this school has done over the past four years to my children as well as other students. Am I going "overboard" No, I am taking a stand with these people and I want them to know I mean business. In the past I have seen violation after violation and no one is ever held accountable for it. I'm fed up and I will no longer just stand on the sideline, from now on they will be held accountable >>> If your daughter ever does mess up and gets in trouble, like any normal kid, they may really discipline with no regrets.hmmmm Make sure she knows that this does not cover all bad behavior.

My daughter is held accountable for her actions and from now on the school administrators will be held accountable also.

My favorite quote:

"A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither"- Thomas Jefferson

Rita

-- Rita (rlynchjarss@aol.com), April 07, 2002.


Rita, just ignore Julie. She's tends to be hyper-defensive of public schools. You're doing the right thing. YOU know it and the rest of us who have been supporting you know it!!

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), April 07, 2002.


Way To Go!!!! Just a word of caution though. I had to go to the school board and super-intendent over an incident with my son a couple years ago(he was a 6th grader at the time). He was harrassed by the teachers involved. By harrassed I mean smart remarks by the teachers,not being allowed to participate during class among other things. The ultimate however was my straight "A" student who had even been advanced a grade received a failing grade for the last grading period.Make it understood with the childs' teacher and principle that you will not tollerate any undue attention or harrassment of your child.

-- Raya Amick (Raya2448@ivillage.com), April 07, 2002.

Stand up for your kids, but don't pick on Julie too much. I have lots of friends who are teachers, and it's not an easy job. Where we live especially there are a lot of parents with the "my kid wouldn't do that so it's your fault" attitude. It's just a shame that one bad "apple" can spoil the whole "bunch".

Bravo for the good teachers out there who go above and beyond the call, and they do exist. It's just a shame they can't rub off on the ones like your daughter seems to have - if you want them to care, you almost have to bribe them (or so it seems!).

Bravo also to you, Rita, for not just sitting on the sidelines and griping. If we don't do something about the nonchalant attitude, it will only get worse!

-- Christine in OK (cljford@mmcable.com), April 07, 2002.


If what Julie said was being hyper-defensive, alot of the rest of this would appear to be on the other extreme of the spectrum. Now maybe the child was treated unfair but that happens now and then throughout life. Civil rights violation? Call in the ACLU? I think that's getting obsessive in this case. This is all over a school suspension? Something that overall isn't really a big deal. Here people are complaining about teachers and principals not doing their jobs, but then you turn around and suggest overloading them some more with meetings and lawsuits. You might win this battle but what have you really gained? More attention focused on your child so her every move will be watched waiting for her to mess up? Are there any other parents experiencing this problem there or is it just you? Being realistic, the behavior you see from your child might be entirely different from how they act at school. It's very rare that kids get suspended through no fault of their own whatsoever. That aside, my main point is what do you really think you'll gain from all this at this point? The suspension is removed. I would think that's all that matters. I seriously don't see how Civil Rights apply in this case. I'd hope you never need any of these teachers or administrators on your side in the future because you've surely burned those bridges by threating lawsuits over something like this. Sometimes life is unfair and it's non-productive and futile to cry injustice every time it happens. Sure, if someone treats you unfairly in a life changing or threatening way, then call in the lawyers, ACLU and anyone else you can find but for something this? I guess I'd have to agree with Julie.

-- Dave (multiplierx9@hotmail.com), April 07, 2002.

It gets really tiring when these threads get turned into off topic debates. Rita started this thread to keep those of us who are SUPPORTING her updated. Those who have been with Rita from the beginning know why she has had to do what's been done. Those who have read the recent threads on homeschooling know why I used the word "hyper-defensive". Please don't detract from Rita's situation by starting a generalized debate. Start a new thread if that's what you'd like to do but please let us give Rita the support she needs without interruption. Thanks.

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), April 07, 2002.

You know what, Rita? I've been thinking a lot about you and I wanted to let you know that I am SO PROUD OF YOU!! A few days ago you went from feeling like "I might lose it", to listening carefully to some of our advice, to having a meeting where you felt in control. That's no easy task and you should be commended for the effort and forethought you put into play!! <<<<>>>>

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), April 07, 2002.


/>/> That was supposed to say HUGS!! at the end there! :o)

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), April 07, 2002.

I did not post this reply to debate with anyone. I posted this reply because some on the board wanted to know what happened. Bren thanks for your support! It was no easy task, but there was a lot of people who responded who helped me with their advice. To these people I thank you very much!

Rita

-- Rita (rlynchjarss@aol.com), April 07, 2002.


Rita,

Congratulations! Your daughter should be able to look back and appreciate her mother sticking up for her and going to bat for her.

Remember the public school employees work for us, the taxpayers. Even for those who homeschool and are accountable to the ones who pay them.

-- Lav, Central Maryland (lavenderbluedilly@hotmail.com), April 07, 2002.


I was informing...not criticizing! My grandmom used to say that no one but you, likes your kids or your dogs...lol My kids are always under the scope cause they are teacher's kids, like preacher's kids. lol I've been through a lot of training for admin...I know the tricks, is all. I typin one handed, so sorry for the typo's, pulled a muscle using the hoe.

-- julie (jbritt@ceva.net), April 07, 2002.

rita, i've been following this and have to add my bravo to the others. no tolerance should be no tolerance for all. i personally don't agree with punishing a child who is defending himself (or herself) or someone else from a bully, especially one who is normally not in trouble. i've had a child be disciplined (set in a corner in headstart) for defending another, smaller child (a boy was hitting a girl and my son stopped him). the teachers let him know they didn't think he was wrong for defending the girl, but he still couldn't hit another child. he also got in trouble this year for trying to take a child who wouldn't go to the teacher like he was told to the teacher (did that make sense?) but J's teacher knew what it was about and talked to him and that's all that has happened. my children would probably have done what yours did in the same situation, and i would have followed in your footsteps, if that is what was called for. i think you are justified. Teachers have a hard job, yes, (i'm studying to become one-certified that is) but that doesn't excuse unequal treatment. fair is not always possible, but with all the screaming about equality, it ought to be practiced.

-- laura (okgoatgal@hotmail.com), April 08, 2002.

Rita, While I don't know if it was necessary to go to the top on this matter I still say good for you. It may have been excessive...it may have not been. Its impossible to tell solely from a public forum post but I do believe parents should stick up for their kids. Its probably true about your kids and dogs (Julie's quote) but that is all the more reason you should stick up for them. On the other hand, someone once told me never blindly trust your kids...I know that sounds awful but they are little people, too. They will "adjust" the truth to cover their own butts just as the principal did. As for the principal lying..don't be shocked. They do it all the time.

-- Najia (najia274@yahoo.com), April 08, 2002.

I have faxed out a follow up letter to the division superintendent asking for written clarification on a few matters that we discussed at the meeting last Friday. I also faxed the Principal of the school and told her to put her response to my questions in writing (don't want to speak with her on the phone again) and that upon receipt of her response, I will decide whether to hold a meeting with her, the vice principal, division superintendent and the school board. I let her know that incompetence will no longer be tolerated. I also contacted the ACLU yesterday by email. I called the Richmond number but all I got was an answering machine.

Rita

-- Rita (rlynchjarss@aol.com), April 09, 2002.


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