Do you unschool? How about Uncollege?

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My daughter has been an unschooler since she was 7. Now she does Uncollege at 18 ;-) Has anybody else done this? How's it going? What do your friends and relatives think? ;-)

The only two times we have been hasseled were when we were travelling. Heather got herself enrolled in a science fair at the Biloxi, MS colliseum and a teacher who came said Heather was being ruined for life thanks to homeschooling. Unschooling probably would have blown her mind!! ;-) The teacher was so miffed when Heather won first prize, that she tried to get my daughter disqualified for not going to school ;-)

The other time was in Florida. We met a county sherrif through my sister. He was very upset that Heather called herself a second grade drop-out ;-) Heather won a library contest in his county. She read and wrote reports about 20 books and got a free pizza. The sherriff said he hadn't even read 20 books in his life ;-o

The following are Heather's links about unschool and uncollege. She really hasn't finished working on them yet, but I couldn't wait any longer ;-)

http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/CollegeHowTo.html

http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/Orion.html

-- Peace and Carrots Farm (wsm311@aol.com), April 03, 2002

Answers

Sounds like your daughter is doing well! We are sort of between structured and unstructured when it comes to homeschooling. I will check out your daughter's website. We are not too keen on sending the kids off to college and figure something could be done at home. We were thinking about just a 2 year degree for the diploma. Just to have as a piece of paper.

-- Lav, Central Maryland (lavenderbluedilly@hotmail.com), April 03, 2002.

Neither of my children has ever been in school (son 10, daughter 5) ans we have unschooled "from the begining", largely influenced by the first homeschooling book we read, John Holt's Growing Without Schooling. My son has already asked me about unschooling college! :-) We will follow your daughter's progress with interest! Her building project has been very inspiring, by the way. Best wishes to her!

-- Andrea Gauland, Big Flats NY (andreagee@aol.com), April 03, 2002.

Our youngest son, now 20, never went to school except for adult evening classes in machine shop. He is now building cabinets, doing carpentry work, and doing lots of traveling around the continent.

He has many friends with similar educational backgrounds, some of whom he met at Not Back To School Camp over the past few years. A number of them have stopped to visit at our home over the years, staying anywhere from overnight to a few weeks. They have been a friendly, intelligent, helpful bunch of kids, and we have enjoyed them all, and look forward to future visits from ones we already know and others that we haven't met yet.

I think that my other sons would be much better off if they hadn't gone to school for the few years that they did attend.

Jim

-- Jim (jiminwis@yahoo.com), April 03, 2002.


There is a web site Not Back To School Camp at "nbtsc.org".

Jim

-- Jim (jiminwis@yahoo.com), April 03, 2002.


Hi. I'm impressed! I get unwanted talk all the time about pulling my kids out of school. I homeschool them through Alpha-Omega programs. I don't have to answer to anyone doing it this way, but some folks talk. My kids are very bright too. Keep up the good work! -Jeanie Whiting

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Jeanie Whiting, On-The-Farm Newsletter Author of "Farm Animals, Your Guide to Raising Livestock" and "Pigs and other stories" Mail: PO Box 1516, Tonasket, WA 98855 URL: http://www.FoxMtnPublishing.com ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

-- Jeanie Whiting (rjwhiting@ncidata.com), April 03, 2002.



Try these unschooling links....

http://www.unschooling.com/

http://www.unschooling.org/

http://www.olin.wustl.edu/staff/bradford/unschool.html

http://www.midnightbeach.com/hs/can-a-christian-be-an-unschooler.htm

-- Peace and Carrots Farm (wsm311@aol.com), April 03, 2002.


Yes, we unschool!! Our children are still young so we haven't worried about the uncollege issue yet. We'll probably give them the pros and cons on both types of education and then support their decision. My husband and I we have continued our educations even though we didn't finish college. We're more autodidactics than anything else. It's good to see that there are more unschoolers out there!

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), April 03, 2002.

Ok....this idea intrigues me. My princesses are all in college or have graduated already from college with BA degrees. I have thought about going to college myself again, but just don't want to sit through the hours of classtime "learning" stuff I already know. My years as adult/parent/reader/learner have taught me so much in my lifetime already. So...seriously....can a degree from an "uncollege" really work in today's society??

-- roxie (rbare@gvc.net), April 03, 2002.

I don't have any children, but I think homeschooling is great if the parents are truly committed to education. But "un-college"?? An "un- degree" will get her nowhere. Even some factory jobs(production line) require a 2yr degree just to get an application. I believe that every kid should go to college(preferably away to school) for at least 2 yrs for the experience and for the pure fun of it. It doesn't matter what the major. The friendships that develop are lasting, also. I just talked to a college roomie of mine a couple of days ago that I haven't talked to in a couple of years(lost track!) and talked for hours. Even though I don't talk to any of them alot, I still consider them to be among my truest friends. If your daughter prefers unstructured learning, maybe an alternative type college might be more her style. I've heard Goddard (in VT) has a funky free- style program. My SO's sister went there many years ago, so I don't know if it's still the same. What does your daughter want to do with her life? Even tradespeople benefit from structured schooling.

-- shakeytails in KY (shakeytails@yahoo.com), April 03, 2002.

I am sending my first born off to college this fall. I am a nervous wreck already. I don't know if I will survive. She wants to be a veterinarian so she will have to go to vet school but I would really like to find a way for her to do the pre-vet program at home. She is graduating a year early so she will be 17 when she leaves and I'm just not ready. Any suggestions?????

-- Lou Ann in KY (homes_cool@msn.com), April 03, 2002.


There are a large number of people in the homeschooling community that are pursuing "uncollege". It is essentially getting an education in a non-traditional manner. Usually the people who chose this route know that they want a non-traditional "job". If you know that what you want to do with your life does not require a special piece of paper, this may work for you. Also, if you do want a more traditional job, you can assemble a portfolio which will show that you have an education equal to or greater than a traditionally educated student. Some of the parents of these "uncollegiates" have come to realize that the years and money they spent going to college have not actually helped to get them to get where they are in their lives. It all depends what you want out of life.

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), April 03, 2002.

Did the naysayers actually read all of Heather's uncollege pages? She has a lot of good info there.... http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/CollegeOR.html

If you get lost, use the site map to see all the college and ORION links..... http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/IndexSiteMap.html

http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/Orion.html

I'm a cynic about paying a lot for education ;-) I was near the top of the heap in high school and got a full scholarship. I ended up going for 16 years all together. I wanted to learn EVERYTHING ;-p I actually do know about Goddard....I have a degree from there ;-) I went to Texas Wesleyan College for environmental science, University of Montana for forestry, Syracuse University for food science and Goddard for social ecology.

It was kinda fun. I enjoyed most of that, but came to realize I could learn more on my own than in classes. Heather was brought up mostly here at the farm and we did a lot of travelling. She saved her own money to build her house and works some times as a carpenter. I wish I were as rich! Depending on the job, she has made $10-$22 an hour. She has no desire to BE a carpenter, it's just one of the many things she does. Tomorrow she teaches girls how to build at a women in the trades conference.

In my whole life, no one has ever asked me to produce copies of my degrees. They ask if I have one, I say yes ;-) I'm absolutely NOT worried about Heather's abilities and qualifications. Several VT colleges have actually begged her to apply. They like homeschoolers...especially ones that do stuff. I tell Heather she should consider it.....but I also think uncollege is enough if she chooses not to.

Here's an uncollege book Heather mentions.... http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp? product_id=725689&cat=19469&type=3&dept=3920&path=0%3A3920%3A18600% 3A18605%3A19469

-- Peace and Carrots Farm (wsm311@aol.com), April 03, 2002.


Lou Ann, It's a painful time for you and a wonderful time for her! (expect some homesickness at the start) Send her off with a few phone cards (look for good rates as they differ greatly), and as one saintly person said,"Pray, hope, and don't worry."

-- Nina (Ingardenwithcat@hotmail.com), April 03, 2002.

Lou Ann- I thought I wanted to be a vet, also. I went to a 2yr Ag&Tech college, graduated easily w/ honors. I never really had to study much thru high school and college- never learned good study habits because I didn't have to. Then I transferred to Cornell University as a Junior. OMG what a difference- incredibly difficult, incredibly competitive, huge classes. I hated it. I didn't know anybody and living off-campus it was hard to make friends in the same field. I quit after 3 semesters(and I've kicked myself hundreds of times for doing so!). I decided I wasn't smart enough and most of all, I didn't want it bad enough to continue. My advice is to send your daughter away to the most competitive university you can find. If she plays around at a community college or something she won't get the quality of education needed to excel at the higher levels. I honestly think I would have done just fine at Cornell IF I'd gone there right out of high school rather than doing the 2yr college thing first. The lesser college didn't give me enough in-depth knowledge to take on the higher level courses at an Ivy League school. If you want to see your daughter succeed, I suggest putting your fears aside, put on a confident face and let her go! If you've taught her well, she'll be fine. In the competitive world of pre-vet studies, you've got to do it like everybody else or she won't have a chance of gaining admission to vet school.

-- shakeytails in KY (shakeytails@yahoo.com), April 03, 2002.

OK, Heather's Mom, her ORION web site is pretty impressive. I've looked at her house site before-I thought it was pretty cool. One question though- absolutely no offense intended- Do you think Heather would be the person she is today if you didn't have the education that you do? I think you're selling your education short- I believe you've benefited tremendously, albeit indirectly, from all those years and $$ spent. Prime example- Heather!

-- shakeytails in KY (shakeytails@yahoo.com), April 03, 2002.


I read all of (the other) Heather's web pages & was intrigued! Bravo girl! I salute her for being so motivated to learn.

I giggled at some of shakeytails quotes: "An "un- degree" will get her nowhere" (Seems like she already is 'somewhere'!) AND "What does your daughter want to do with her life? (Seems like she's already doing!)

Heather, keep on! :)

-- heather (h.m.metheny@att.net), April 03, 2002.


Well...in 3 or so hours I'll be on my way to a conference in Windsor, Ontario. Won't be back until Sunday. Maybe Heather will write to you all.....except she's doing a conference here in Vermont tomorrow.

Oh, of course everything about me affects my daughter. My education made me somewhat smarter and a zillion times more cynical ;-) In HS, I took a semester vocabulary class. We got a workbook for it. I was bored and did the whole thing over the weekend. The teacher was stunned....she said it was the whole semester's worth of work. I only had to come to class every Friday for the tests and got straight 100's. School is not very exciting!

Once I learned that secret, I petitioned the principal to be able to do independent study. He said OK. I took over the school greenhouse, was in charge of the school herbarium and studied edible wild foods.....did this all through HS. By 12th grade I had taken every available class. I only went for driver's ed and gym the last 1/2 of senior year. I realized school was basically a prison where they drew things out to take up time.

Yup...that and my college experience was part of why I chose to unschool my daughter. She has always had choices to do other ways of schooling, but prefers this.

I've really enjoyed hearing other folks experiences and thoughts. See you later ;-)

-- Peace and Carrots Farm (wsm311@aol.com), April 03, 2002.


Stick me (a GED student) and a College educated guy the same age as me (24): at a barn raising, a car wreck, a sudden unexpected birth, a plane crashed in the wilderness 2 weeks from anywhere (and most places that actually matter... and you suddenly see that, all that time I read books and "played on the homestead" and made less money in a year than he spent on college in 3 months: I was learning skills as valuable as any college class (and maybe more valuable?). Its all relative.

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), April 04, 2002.

As Heather's mother you sound very well rounded in your experiences. She evidently is a very very intelligent and ambitious girl. A great combination for your success in unschooling. Everyone has a different situation. That is what makes this forum so much fun. I was 18 when I got married with one semester of college. I hated college so I quit. I had two little girls the next two years and I believe they would not have benefited from my teaching them at home. My experiences in life were so limited, I would have held them back - I'm sure. There was a great school close by with many fine Christian teachers. We live in a small rural community. Your success with your daughter is to be commended.

-- Marilyn in CO (www.tomearbeef@aol.com), April 04, 2002.

I enjoyed college much more than K-12. I would disagree with you, Shakeytails, on the junior (or "community" colleges as they are also referred to).

I had more actual professors in junior college (as in with doctorates) than I did at the university--there you find a lot more flunkies (aka graduate students) leading the discussion classes and subbing for the professors. I think you should get a discount in tuition if you're being taught by a flunkie (no offense per se, but if you're paying good money to go to school, you should get what you're paying for, which to me is a professor, not an assistant).

The biggest difference I found between junior college and university was that the professors at the junior college were "in the real world", so to speak, and assigned homework accordingly, whereas the university professors seem to assume that their class is the only class a student is taking, and assigned work just to assign it, probably because they did have the flunkies working for them. It was not homework that enhanced the learning experience appreciably, imho.

I did like the fact that, at the university, 90% of the time (a few professors did take roll, but they were the exception), they didn't care if you missed class, as long as you showed up for midterm and final. At junior college, they take attendance, miss 3 times and you're out, almost no exceptions. Not that I missed class as a rule, but it was nice to have the flexibility to do so in case of an emergency.

How many "social benefits" you get from college depends upon a lot of things, like if you live in the dorm or not, live off campus or still at home, if you're working or not, even if you have your own transportation or are dependent upon a ride or bus schedules. I noticed that a lot of people who had jobs or lived at home didn't have much time for socializing--it was go to class and go to work/home, especially if they were taking a true full load (not this three classes nonsense) or trying to graduate early.

Some fields will probably always require a piece of paper (like teaching), but others don't. A lot of people in computing now, for example, particularly the older ones, don't have computer degrees, much less advanced degrees. That is changing as more and more get degrees in the field, and the companies are getting more and more picky/snobby about it. The piece of paper can often get you in the door--but you still have to prove yourself from there.

And, if all you go to is a junior college, at least get an AA or AS degree in something while you are satisfying your transfer requirements at the same time--too many people I know just worried about satisfying transfer requirements, and all they can say is that they went to college for two years. On a resume, that doesn't look as good as "completed an AA or AS degree in (whatever), even if it is a Liberal Arts (aka a degree in Undeclared) degree".

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), April 04, 2002.


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