Sleazy Governmenet Update -- Somewhat Long : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

Under the cover of darkness last night the House passed the Illegal Immigrant Amnesty bill, Section 245i Extension to the INS Act. The "special arrangement" with the White House and the leadership's attempted "cloaked" vote was somewhat undone by Tom Tancredo. He demanded and got a "recorded" vote.

Here in Virginia there is an organization called the Virginia Taxpayers Association headed by Ken White. VTA is non-political and has had numerous victories in defeating bad tax and financial legislation, both within the Commonwealth of Virginia and nationally. VTA is a large network of no-nonsense folks who do more than just talk about our government problems. They take very effective actions.

The national firestorm response to the sneaky Amnesty bill vote has been significant. This vote was about a lot more than legalizing a few hundred thousand illegal aliens. Today, I received the following email from VTA and thought perhaps some here who have had enough of the malfeasence in Congress would like to take up the VTA challenge. Or, maybe initiate your own action where you live.

You will probably notice that Ken doesn't mince words.


- Victorious Network -

Tel./FAX No.: 434 277-5255 E-mail:

URGENT ALERT! March 13, 2002



House of Representatives voted 275-138 Tuesday, March 12 to grant amnesty to MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS living in the U. S.

Republican House leadership, under direction of George W. Bush, further SOLD OUT AMERICANS TO DANGEROUS FOREIGN INVASION. Bush WANTED SELLOUT because he plans to present Mexican President Vicente Fox with an immigration agreement later this month.

Amnesty extension was brought up as part of House's "suspension calendar."

In 1996 Congress passed Legal Immigrant Family Equity Act, amending U. S. immigration laws. Under Section 245i of LIFE Act, illegal aliens could apply for an "adjustment of status" from Immigration and Naturalization Service.

Those eligible included aliens who:

* ENTERED THE UNITED STATES ILLEGALLY; * WORKED IN THE UNITED STATES ILLEGALLY; * FAILED TO MAINTAIN CONTINUOUSLY LAWFUL STATUS; * Entered under Visa Waiver Pilot Program; * Entered as foreign crewmen; and entered as foreign travelers in transit without a visa.

That provision expired, however, and under current law, illegal aliens who wish to remain in U. S. legally must return to their home country and apply for visa at the U.S. Embassy or Consulate there.

Democrat-led Senate passed the measure in early September, but before House could vote, terrorists struck the World Trade Center and Pentagon.

While measure was under consideration, several Republicans complained that the manner in which it was introduced was an attempt by Democrats to MISLEAD THEIR COLLEAGUES AND CONSTITUENTS. Parliamentary "SHENANIGANS" was a common charge.

Amnesty extension was included as the sole Senate amendment to H.R. 3525, The Enhanced Border Security and Visa Reform Act of 2001, which had already been passed by the House.

SELLOUT TO ALIEN INVASION MIGHT HAVE BEEN BY AN UNRECORDED VOTE, but Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.) DEMANDED a recorded vote. Tally showed that 92 Republicans voted with traitorous leadership under House Majority Leader Dick Armey, Majority Whip Tom DeLay, International Relations Committee Chairman Henry Hyde and Republican National Congressional Committee Chairman Tom Davis (Virginia 11th District).

But 123 GRASSROOTS REPUBLICANS INCLUDING <<>> VOTED AGAINST THE LEADERSHIP, AGAINST GEORGE W. BUSH AND AGAINST SELLOUT !!! Those were Representatives Cantor, Jo Ann Davis, Forbes, Goodlatte, Stosch, Wolf, and also Independent Virgil Goode.

Voting for the aliens were 182 Democrats, including Boucher, Moran and Scott from Virginia, while only 13 Democrats voted to protect America.

Virginia Taxpayers Association does not endorse any political party.


Representative Tom Davis, coming from Fairfax County and Chairman of Republican National Congressional Committee, by this and his previous votes against the Constitution has made himself the WORST REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN FROM VIRGINIA !! He <<>> with his party background that he is SECURE in office, that NOTHING HE DOES IN CONGRESS CAN HURT HIM !!




Even the dominant media have recently reported the total breakdown of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, so the administration obviously wants us to be left COMPLETELY HELPLESS AGAINST OUR ENEMIES !!! With Tom Davis as the single CENTRAL TARGET of all your phone calls, the censoring media CANNOT KEEP YOUR RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION OVER THE LATEST BETRAYAL QUIET!! And the people controllers will KNOW THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET THEIR WAY in destroying the future of all of us!!!



Tom Davis Washington office: 202 225-1492 (most important location) and if you are willing:

Tom Davis Annandale, Va. district office: 703 916-9610

Tom Davis Herndon, Va. district office: 703 437-1726

Tom Davis Woodbridge, Va. district office: 703 590-4599

You will do well also to PHONE THE FOLLOWING, whose names have insulated them more from public criticism:

House Majority Leader Dick Armey: 202 225-7772

House Majority Whip Tom DeLay: 202 225-5951

International Relations Committee Chairman Henry Hyde: 202 225-1166

Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner: 202 225-5101

TELL THEM, in as level a voice as you can muster (DO NOT SHOUT, AND DO NOT USE FOUL OR THREATENING LANGUAGE !!) that

You believe their vote March 12 granting amnesty to illegal aliens actually promotes the dangerous invasion of America by foreigners, many of whom have no interest in becoming U. S. citizens, and also endangers the security of our country, which is already threatened by thousands of terrorists within and without our borders!


In your calls to Tom Davis, TELL HIM ALSO that if he does not shape up IMMEDIATELY in promoting American interests and the United States Constitution, you believe he will not long remain secure in his congressional seat!



-- Ed (, March 13, 2002


Can I get the same money the government will be giving to them? After all I was born here, let my brothers, father, uncles, and an aunt live several years each with the military, sent all of them to war, sacrificed my husband's sanity in Vietnam, paid taxes, paid more taxes, worked here and voted here. Shouldn't I be on the dole too?

-- Susan in Northern LP Michigan (, March 13, 2002.

I just thought I'd try to clarify a bit, as this stuff can be somewhat confusing.

The bill number that you're referring to is H.R. 1885. There are 5 versions of this bill for this session of congress. You can check them out at:

You mention the Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act of 2001, but this H.R. 1885 is the Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act of 2002.

If anyone wants to see how their people voted, the roll call is listed here:

The final tally was 275-137.

Your posting started out "under cover of darkness" which made me laugh - it was also interesting to me that they stayed late last night to discuss the concept of protecting infants who are born alive (gee! what a concept!)

Anyway, if anyone would like to view the daily proceedings of the floor of Congress, they can be found at

The main web page that you can get all this information from is "Thomas" It is a service run by the library of Congress & you can find anything you want to know - what bills are where - what their status is - who's voting for what - who's voting against what, is all very up-to-date.

It's a great way to keep updated on what's going on - And I think it's important that you are informed yourself & don't totally rely on what others tell you.

-- heather (, March 13, 2002.


Thanks for the websites. I added them to my list for future reference.

-- Bob in WI (, March 14, 2002.

thank you ms. heather for a calmer assesment of the burecratica- titantica that we call our goverment. I personally am for 'easy' immagration to the states. it takes a bit of a spark to want to pull up roots & go to the 'new world' we need that here don't 'ch think?

-- bj pepper in C. MS. (, March 14, 2002.

Besides, if all of us fine, upstanding, born citizens were willing to do the work they do, for the price they do it, there wouldn't be enough jobs here to make it worth their while to make the trip. You can't be against this and still bargain hunt for produce, cigarettes, "made in America" cheapo clothes (who do you think makes the really cheap stuff?) and other products made affordable only through massive quantities of near-slave labor that is afforded us through immigrant labor (legal or otherwise).

Many of you also oppose government "fiddling" in business, regulating things such as benefits, pay laws and such that would make it nearly impossible to hire anyone for less than minimum wage and with benefits and a payroll paper trail,etc, saying it would hurt small business and such. You're right. But it would also make it nearly useless for anyone to hire illegal immigrants, as the work would have to pay well enough to entice citizens (current laws also state that companies have to consider citizens first, but they are neither enforced - to expensive, nor practical - the wages are too low and the work too hard for any of us here who scraped and saved to send our kids to college to want to encourage those recent graduates to take them. Anyone whose child worked for one of these companies would end up filing suit over their treatment. Although some of these companies are legit and do the best they can, many use intimidation, fear of deportation (legit or otherwise), seperation of family members, and the immigrants inability to speak the language and understand their rights to by-pass safety, health, housing, and other human rights issues. ANY workers who know their rights, speak the language, and can tell their co-workers what is what know that if they do, it will simply result in them (and any "infected" workers) being sent back for no reason, with or without their family members- perfectly legally.

Well, here's what comes of cheap, readily available everything - what makes America great. Someone's gotta make it and those of you who insist on American-made cheap, readily available everything are going to get it, one way or the other, as long as you are a strong,patriotic market force. Manufacturers are too smart to let that go untapped while there is anyway to do it.

Sure they voted in secret. The same thing goes for lenient laws on things like strip clubs, liquor laws, and other moral no-no's that always get a hue and cry when they get their zoning or permit, but are always kept well in business, and mostly by locals.

No one wants to be seen doing what the people want, but don't want to be seen wanting.

-- Soni (, March 14, 2002.

I don't believe for a moment that we depend on illegal aliens for the work they do. In years back, all the teenagers did the fruit picking, loved earning it for their extra money. Gov't. decided they shouldn't be doing it, which opened up the jobs for the illegals. Couple years ago, friend was harassed by gov't. for having someone too young helping at raspberry patch.

It would be shocking if we knew how much they get in free benefits, not to mention bringing in drugs.

Someone shared this poem which they found at a welfare office:


I come for visit, get treated regal, So I stay, who care illegal?

Cross the border, poor and broke, Take the bus, see customs bloke.

Nice man treat me good in there, Say I need to see welfare.

Welfare say come down no more, We send cash, right to your door.

Welfare checks they make you wealthy, Medicare, it keep you healthy.

By and by, I got plenty money, Thanks American working dummy!

Write to friends in motherland, Tell them to come as fast as can.

They come in rags and chebby trucks, I buy big house with welfare bucks.

They all come, we live together, Some say they no like weather.

Fourteen families, they all move in, Neighbor's patience growing thin.

Finally, white guy, they move away. I buy more houses and then I say,

Find more aliens, houses I rent, In the garden I put up a tent.

Send for families, they just trash, But they all draw more welfare cash.

Everything is mucho good, Soon we own the neighborhood.

We have hobby, it's called "breeding," Welfare pay for baby feeding.

Kids need dentist? Wife need pills? We get free, we got no bills.

American crazy, he pay all year, To keep his welfare running here.

We think America damn good place. Too damn good for white-man race.

If they no like us, they can go, Got lots of room in Mexico.

-- P.O.d (, March 14, 2002.

Do we really need racist junk like this above posted here?

p.o'd, Do you really think the average American teenager nowadays would work in the fields and orchards?? You're out of touch with reality if you do. Plenty of labor jobs out here, landscaping, housecleaning, etc. They can't find enough people to work them. At the same time lots of white people say they can't find work. The truth is they aren't willing to do that type of work.

Everyone in America has the same opportunity. You can go from being dirt-poor to extremely wealthy no matter who you are, what you were born into or what your credentials are. It's all up to you. Obviously you haven't been able to make it on your own wits and need to blame someone else rather than look in the mirror.

I feel sorry for anyone who judges anyone based on the color of their skin or where they're from. Almost everyone here, even you I bet can be traced back to an immigrant at some point.

-- Dave (, March 14, 2002.

and bringing in drugs? Nobody would be bringing in drugs if there wasn't a demand. Where do you think most of that demand comes from? White people. Who's the bigger fool? The person who does drugs or the person who capitalizes on the demand?

-- Dave (, March 14, 2002.

1) Without all the gov't. money for white trash and illegals, YES, citizens (including teens) would take the jobs.

2) So there's a demand for drugs -- does bringing them across the border help the situation??

3) Dave, don't be so hate-filled. Relax and enjoy the humor of the poem, as it was intended. I just bought a book yesterday, called "Stupid White Men." (#1 top seller) No, I wasn't offended. Truth is truth. You should be careful about calling people racist. I know decent legal immigrants who don't like the current situation.

-- P.O.d (, March 14, 2002.

me hate filled? Sorry, I don't find any humor in your poem.

-- Dave (, March 14, 2002.

I live in a community that makes their living working the water - crabs, oysters, fishing. Thus there are crab picking "factories". Up until 9 y/a, 100% of the crab meat was being picked by local women. Then they began importing mexican women for the picking season. I should also mention that there had been no increase in what a women got for per pound of picked crab meat in the previous 15 yrs, which means they were working below minimum wage. They were finally given a 10 cent per pound raise when the mexicans began comming.

Here's the "deal". The mexican women must pay for their own bus ticket here. Once they get here, they are charged $100 a mo "rent", and their utilities. The factory owners have them in housing that is better than the average household in the area - brand new modular homes.

When the crabs are "slow" the local pickers go without a day(s) work. Their pay check is "short". However - if the mexican women get less the 35 1/2 hours work - the factory MUST pay them for 35 1/5 hours! Even if they only worked 20 hours! In other words, according to the agreement the factories MUST sign - they HAVE to guarentee the mexican women a full weeks pay - NO MATTER WHAT! They also must provide transportation to the stores, doctors, etc.

And I can tell you from personal experience that the factories DOTE on the mexican workers! Every operating proceeduce centers around what is best for the mexicans! Not only that, the factories are excepting poorer quality of picked crab meat (more "bones") from the mexican pickers. Quality that they will not except from local women. This allows them to pick "faster" thus picking a ratio of lb per hour to maintain minimum wage. Something they do not allow a local picker to do. Nor has there been any increase in pay per lb of meat in the last 9 years.

As long as the wages were paying minimum, the factories never were short for local workers. Sometimes they had 3 generations working for them at the same time. Since the mexican workers have come - the conditions for the local workers has deteriated to the extent where it is no longer fiesable for them to work for the offered wages. And keep in mind - the accepted quaility and guarenteed wages. Every condition has been slanted in favor of the mexican workers. (in some of the larger cities, the mexicans have created Unions which then threaten to strike to drive up their wages. Wages equal to/or better than what the american worker was/is getting)

When you think about it - that's a pretty good deal. Guarenteed wages, excellent living conditions, free transportation. And it is not only in my immediate area. It is all over the Eastern Shore of MD. If for any reason the mexican worker is unhappy about their employer all they have to do is make a call. The concept that these workers are being treated very poorly is greatly over-stated. When you hear of some being mis-treated, that is the exception to the rule!!! The majority are treated excellently. Better than you or I.

Now here's a thought - If our taxes were not so high that they are draining us all dry - do you think it would be at all possible for us to live better? Think a lower wage would go further as far as our buying power would be? Do you think cost of production would also go down? Think our kids would find they had more in their pocket AFTER taxes???? And remember OUR taxes are paying medical AND schooling to ILLEGAL workers who join the welfare ranks!!! They've got a win/win situation.

I have no problem if they were to enter the US LEGALLY. But they ARE NOT! And THAT is what has my undies in a bunch!!! What the heck do we have immigration laws for??? Why bother with them and the cost of supporting the INS if the immagration laws have no teeth!? Yes - we are ALL decendants (except for the Native Am) of immigrantents. BUT - how many of us are decendants of ILLEGAL immigrants!????

-- dottie - in the E Shore MD (, March 15, 2002.

How much of your tax dollar do you think goes to welfare for illegal immigrants? Less than 1%. The percentage of illegal immigrants on welfare is about the same as US citizens. People started pouring into the United States long before immigration laws even existed.

The average illegal isn't crossing the border, even putting their lives at risk to get here to collect welfare. Quite a few have taxes deducted from their paychecks using false ss# and never get any benefits, tax refunds or retirement funds in return. Many are living in camps in poor conditions just to work for a few dollars an hour. Most of them come here to work hard all week long (and rarely complain), not feed off the system.

I'm not saying that it's a great situation, but you guys are blaming them for way more than they are responsible for. Afterall, who is hiring them? They wouldn't come here if they couldn't find work.

Maybe if we sent our business(like the keyboard and mouse your hands are on) to our neighbors down in Mexico instead of across the pacific to China and other places, we wouldn't have any of these problems.

-- Dave (, March 15, 2002.

There should be NO money for any person illegally entering America.

If "poor" illegals are so overburdened and work so hard in America, why don't they just make something of their own country?

Why should we send our jobs to Mexico, to China or to anywhere??

-- P.O.d (, March 15, 2002.

Amnesties are destructive: 1. They are a slap in the face to immigrants who wait to come to America legally. 2. They reward lawbreakers. 3. Each amnesty further weakens our immigration laws and enforcement. 4. Every amnesty has caused a greater flood of illegal alien entries. 5. They are costly and unfair to U.S. workers, and weaken the pay scale. 6. They further undermine English as our official language. 7. They encourage racial divisiveness.

America already has 30 million citizens living at or below the poverty level. Unemployment claims have been increasing by over 100,000 each month for the past 6 months and current unemployment levels are the highest in 7-8 years. Until our own citizens are helped, we can not afford to import 3 million more potential poverty- level immigrants. CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME!

NOTE: Mexico's President Vincente Fox should solve his own country's problems before he lectures Americans to open up our borders and give illegal Mexicans welfare, free education, free medical care, and jobs. The Fox family and other Mexican employers treat their own migrant workers - including children - like low-paid slaves. Stay home, Mr. Fox, and clean up your own house.

-- P.O.d (, March 15, 2002.

Washington Report How to Stop Illegal Aliens from Taking Over $1.1 Billion a Year from U.S. Taxpayers from April 2001 issue

By Robert H. Goldsborough, President, AIC

Just one of many rackets used by illegal aliens in this country is costing American taxpayers more than $1.1 billion a year. Ironically, this fraud continues to grow because of the 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution which is being misinterpreted so as to allow pregnant illegals to raid the U.S. Treasury.

The 14th Amendment states that "all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens," and the federal government has been liberally interpreting this to mean that citizenship is automatically bestowed upon any and all babies born in the United States.

In his January 31 remarks to the House of Representatives, Congressman Bob Stump(R- AZ) asserted, "I believe this is a gross misinterpretation and that there is no constitutional requirement to confer citizenship to the U.S.-born children of illegal aliens. Illegal aliens cannot be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States without legal authority."

The General Accounting Office's report for 1997 reveals that in FY 1995, about $1.1 billion in Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and Food Stamp benefits were provided to households with an illegal alien parent for the use of her (or his) "citizen child." This is not only an outrageous constitutional loophole allowing illegal aliens to pick the pockets of U.S. taxpayers but also a huge incentive for more and more pregnant aliens to sneak into the United States just in time to give birth. In most cases, these illegal alien parents remain in the U.S. and overload our welfare, judicial, educational, and public works systems.

As Representative Stump remarked, "there can be no mistake that the citizenship grant has significantly contributed to our unprecedented levels of illegal immigration. According to some figures, an estimated 165,000 children are born to illegal aliens in the U.S. annually."

The 14th Amendment was a post Civil War Amendment which was adopted by Congress on July 21, 1868 and, according to its proponents, was intended to guarantee citizenship to freed slaves who had been born in the U.S. The passage of the 14th Amendment was never intended to hold out the promise of citizenship to babies born of mothers who had illegally entered the country. Stump contends that "those individuals who actively defy the laws of the United States by illegal entry or overstaying the terms of their entry should not have the cherished constitutional right to confer citizenship on their children. As Members of Congress, we have an obligation to ensure that our borders are protected and our immigration laws are followed."

-- P.O.d (, March 15, 2002.

I really get tired of people bashing immigrants specifically mexicans. THe hispanic community contributes greatly to the american economy ask any vegetable farmer with thousands of acres in production who does the work in their fields. I'm in college and I garauntee that 98% of the teenagers today would refuse such work. Racism, and economics aside the current system of immigration is unable to deal with any violations of current standards this would allow the government to actually know who was in the country. A bonus for areas with populations of illegal immigrants would be an increase in spending allocated on basis of population

-- ERGH (wTF@UIOI.oki), March 17, 2002.

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