Bin Laden is dead?? : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

This afternoon I was listening to WPR. They had a guest on, Steve Poliack(?) who had been an undersecretary of state with the Bush sr administration. In addition to being a counterterrorism expert he's also a M.D. He sez, in all likelyhood Bin Laden is dead. He confirmed that the CIA station chief from Dubai had visited Bin Laden in an AMERICAN hosp somewhere in the middle east in July(?) while he was on dialysis, suffering from renal failure. It had been a chronic problem and said he had a "portable" dialysis machine in Afghanistan that he apparently had to leave behind. He also predicted that the US would be struck by a "dirty" bomb within 6-7 months, because he sez, the US has ample evidence that El Queda has gotten hold of TONS of fissionable material. I posted the above elsewhere. The following are contributions to the thread by others.

I found this by going to WPR webpage and looking up the program liner notes: Steve Pieczenik Dr. Steve Pieczenik, MD has a PhD in International Affairs from MIT. His MD was received from Cornell University Medical College. He has served as a deputy assistant secretary with four U.S. secretaries of state: Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz, and James Baker. In addition to being the co-creator of Tom Clancy's Op-Center series (movie and books), he has authored the novels Pax Pacifica, Maximum Vigilance, The Mind Palace, Hidden Passions, Blood Heat, and State of Emergency. Dr. Pieczenik was also the co-creater of Tom Clancy's Netforce.

Dr. Pieczenik has a web page

I got this this morning from a friend. Not sure about all the facts and some of the real obvious bias........but sure got me to thinking. I am cutting and pasting here in it's entirety. If you like this article, please consider subscribing to The Nation at special discounted rates. You can order online or call our toll-free number at 1-800-333- 8536.

===================================== Special Report

George W. in the Garden of Gethsemane by Michael Moore

This letter was originally published on January 29, 2002 at

An Open Letter to George W. Bush

Dear George,

When it's all over in a couple months, and you're packing up your pretzels and Spot and heading back to Texas, what will be your biggest regret? Not getting out more often and seeing the sights around Rock Creek Park? Never once visiting the newly-renovated IKEA in Woodbridge, Virginia? Or buying your way to the White House with money from a company that committed the biggest corporate swindle in American history? I got a feeling you didn't miss much by not spending an entire Saturday afternoon assembling a Swedish bookcase-- but you should have known that there was no way you would ever finish your term by hopping into bed with Kenneth Lay.

It's kind of sad when you think about it. Here you were-the most popular president ever!--the recipient of so much good will from your fellow Americans after September 11, and then you had to go and blow it. You just couldn't stay away from your old cowpoke friend from Texas, Kenneth Lay. Kenny has always been there for you. You needed a way to fly around to all the primaries and campaign stops in the 2000 election--so Kenny gave you his corporate jet. Did you tell the voters when you arrived in each city that the bird you flew in on was from a billionaire who was secretly conspiring to give the bird to all his employees and investors? He flew you around America on the Enron company jet, and for that favor you touched down on tarmac after tarmac to tell your fellow citizens that you were "going to restore dignity to the White House, the people's house."

You said this standing in front of an Enron jet! Man, you loved Lay so much, you not only affectionately referred to him as "Kenny Boy," you interrupted an important campaign trip in April 2000, to fly back to Houston for the Astro's opening day at the new Enron Field--just so you could watch Kenny Boy Lay throw out the first pitch. How sentimental! I mean, you loved this man so intensely that, when you were awarded a set of keys the Supreme Court had made for you so you could live in the White House, you invited Kenny Boy to set up shop--at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue! He interviewed those who would hold high-level Energy Department positions in your administration. You not only let Kenny Boy decide who would head the regulatory agency that oversaw Enron, you let him hand-pick the new chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission--a former lawyer for his accountant, Arthur Andersen!

Kenny and the boys at Andersen also worked to make sure that accounting firms would be exempt from numerous regulations and would not be held liable for any "funny bookkeeping" (don't you wish you were this forward-thinking?). Then the rest of Kenny Boy's time was spent next door with his old buddy, Dick Cheney (Enron and Halliburton, as you'll recall, got the big contracts from your dad to "rebuild" Kuwait after the Gulf War). Lay and Dick formed an "energy task force" (Operation Enduring Graft) which put together the county's new "energy policy." This policy then went on to shut down every light bulb and juicer in the state of California. And guess who made out like bandits while "trading" the energy California was in desperate need of? Kenny Boy and Enron! No wonder Big Dick doesn't want to turn over the files about those special meetings with Lay!

The only thing that surprises me more than all the Enron henchmen who ended up in your cabinet and administration is how our lazy media just rolled over and didn't report it. The list of Enron people on your payroll is impressive. Lawrence Lindsey, your chief economic advisor? A former advisor at Enron! Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill? Former CEO of Alcoa, whose lobbying firm, Vinson and Elkins, was the #3 contributor to your campaign! Who is Vinson and Elkins? The law firm representing Enron! Who is Alcoa? The top polluter in Texas. Timothy White, the Secretary of the Army? A former vice-chair of Enron Energy! Robert Zoellick, your Federal Trade Representative? A former advisor at Enron! Karl Rove, your main man at the White House? He owned a quarter-million dollars of Enron stock. Then there's the Enron lawyer you have nominated to be a federal judge in Texas, the Enron lobbyist who is your chair of the Republican Party, the two Enron officials who now work for House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, and the wife of Texas Senator Phil Gramm who sits on Enron's board. And there's the aforementioned Mr. Pitt, the former Arthur Andersen attorney whose job it is now as SEC head to oversee the stock markets. George, it never stops! My fingers are getting tired typing all this up--and there's lots more.

Don't get me wrong, George--I do not think you're an evil man. You don't need any crap from people like me--heck, you got mother-in-law problems! Now, I have a very good relationship with my mother-in-law, but then, I never told her to put $8,000 of her money into a company my administration knew was going belly-up. You say you didn't know? Your bag man--Don Evans, the man who squeezed all that money for you from Enron as your campaign finance chairman (and is now collecting his reward as your Commerce Secretary)--has admitted that he got calls from Enron begging for help last year because they were going under. Didn't he tell you this? Then Paul O'Neill, your Treasury Secretary, admitted that Enron and Kenny Boy called him, too, for some special favors to save Enron. Didn't he mention this to you? They claim to have called your chief of staff, Andrew Card, and he said he didn't bother to inform you. What does your mother-in-law think about these boys her daughter's husband consorts with?

I love watching the O'Neill and Evans show. What a couple of cut-ups! They're, like, all proud of themselves for "not doing Enron any favors." Actually, I think it's more like they didn't do your MOTHER- IN-LAW any favors. Enron got LOTS of favors. And why not? Kenny Boy has been your number one financial backer since you ran for governor. No other American or Saudi has given you more money than Kenny Boy and his gang at Enron. O'Neill, Evans, Cheney, Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham--ALL of them gave Lay and Enron special favors from day one. The New York Times last May was so concerned about how Kenny had the run of the place (1600 Pennsylvania Ave.), they referred to Lay as the "shadow advisor to the president." And what advice! Who was it that wanted you to deregulate the energy industry further? Kenny Boy! Who was it that convinced you to explore the sick idea of PRIVATIZING our water supply and then allow private corporations to "trade" it in the future? Kenny Boy! Who was it that wanted Social Security to be tied to the stock market? Yup, Kenny Boy! (Imagine, if you will, what would have happened to our precious Social Security funds had they been invested in Enron stocks as you, George, suggested be done during your campaign as yuppies everywhere clucked along in agreement over that genius idea.)

O'Neill's and Evans's admission that they "did nothing" when Enron told them of the company's shell game and impending collapse is reason enough for you and yours to hit the Beltway and never return to that sacred trust we call Our American Government. They are proud of "doing nothing?" By doing nothing, millions of Americans have been swindled. Tens of thousands have lost their jobs. Thousands more have lost their savings and their retirement. Yet your cabinet secretaries gloat over what a "good job" you and they did by "doing nothing." Let me ask you this: If someone was setting a house on fire, and they called you to help them set it on fire, and you said no you wouldn't help them--BUT then you also DIDN'T call 911 and inform the police that someone was going to burn down a house, do you think you would have committed a crime? Of course you would have! You had prior knowledge and then you knowingly and purposefully HID this information from the authorities and the people living in the house! You only admitted that you knew a house was going to be torched when you were confronted by the police. Are you complicit? Yes! Are you an accessory? Yes! Who would even think of going around boasting, "Hey, look what a great guy I am--a friend of mine told me he was going to commit an act of arson, and then I decided NOT to tell ANYONE about it!! WHOO-HOO!!"

Enron and Kenny Boy bought your silence and the silence of your cabinet members. You yourself didn't have to actually raid the 401(k) accounts of those poor people in Houston (many of whom probably voted for you every time your name was on a ballot). All you had to do was remain silent, change the government regulations that let them get away with it, and install their hand-picked cronies to sit on the "oversight" boards which were supposed to be keeping an eye on them. While doing all this, you told the American people that these rich friends of yours were not getting any special breaks--when, in fact, Enron had already scammed their way out of paying ANY taxes in four out of the last five years. Your economic "stimulus" bill that you got the House to pass after 9/11 had a section that would give Enron a gift of $250 million of our tax money. You were pushing this bill in November and December, long after your administration knew that Enron was raiding the vault and screwing its workers and investors.

You and your Republican friends are quick to point out that Enron had their claws into the Democrats as well. Yes, they did, and thank you for making the case why we not only need an alternative to the current make-up of the Democratic Party, we need private money removed from our electoral process ASAP.

But, George, let's be real--the Democrats only got a pittance from Enron compared to the millions you and the Republicans received. Democrats just don't have the killer instinct to do anything right, and they certainly don't know much about making money the old- fashioned way, one off-shore tax shelter at a time. I would expect nothing less from a Party that couldn't even put their candidate in the White House after he had already won the election. The Democrats are like a Yugo--you know it won't last long or work well, but it will occasionally get the job done. Fat cats know they can buy the Democrats at discount prices, and so they do. Anyone who tries to deflect this scandal away from you, George, or away from the Republicans, or away from the whole dirty way we elect our leaders, is someone who is desperately trying to cling to what's left of a very crooked system that has to go and go now.

The saddest part of this whole affair was the day the scandal was revealed--and you denied that you even knew your good friend, Kenneth Lay. "Ken who?" you said. Oh, he's just some businessman from Texas. "Heck, he backed my opponent for governor, Ann Richards!" was your way of trying to deflect the truth that was hitting you like a Mack truck. You knew that he, in fact, endorsed YOU and gave you THREE times the money Ann Richards ever saw from him. I hardly ever talk to the guy, you said. You were like Peter in the Garden of Gethsemane, denying he knew Jesus, three times. And then the cock crowed. And Peter felt shame and ran away. What shame do you feel tonight, George, for the lies you have told? What shame do you feel using the dead of 9/11 as a cover for your actions, hoping that our sorrow for those lost souls and our fear of being killed by terrorists would distract us from what your boys and Kenny Boy were up to during those horrific weeks in September and October?

It was during those very days, while the rest of us were in shock and sadness, that the executives at Enron were selling off their stock and shifting assets to their 900 phony partnerships overseas. Did they notice the remains of the dead being pulled from the rubble while they were downloading their millions, or were their eyes glued only to the bottom third of the TV screen as the stock ticker with the rigged Enron price crawled across the images of firemen desperate, in tears, to find their fallen brothers? The country was behind you when you said you were fighting the evildoers who did this. In fact, all the while, the real fight your friends at Enron were conducting was the fight against the clock, to see how fast they could transfer all the loot to their personal accounts and run away. Those were the evildoers, George, and you knew it. And because you, by design or negligence, allowed this to happen, it is time for you to resign. The cock has crowed for the last time. At the very least, your mother-in- law deserves better. Yours,

Michael Moore American Son-in-law Owner of 7th LARGEST COMPANY IN AMERICA! (revised ranking)

Out of respect for the privacy of the posters of the contributions I've omitted their names. I don't know about ya'll but this kinda thing ticks me off. Its OUR government and we deserve to be told the truth, the whole truth. Maybe its time for a special prosecutor and I'm surprised no one is raising hell about it.

-- john (, March 04, 2002


and plenty of top-level democrats, especially the DNC chairman had their hands in Global Crossing. Hasn't Moore faded away yet? A person couldn't be anymore biased than he is. He's done more to help along the death of his beloved socialism/liberalism than any conservative I've ever seen.

-- Dave (, March 04, 2002.

Um, does this have anything to do with homesteading?

-- Chuck (, March 04, 2002.

What the Hell was that all about? And what does a liberal lunatic like Michael Moore have to do with homesteading?

-- Ken Donnell, Plantersville, TX (, March 04, 2002.

Hey, some of us liberal lunatics are serious homesteaders...but we still don't know what this has to do with sharpening a chainsaw???

-- gilly (, March 04, 2002.

A special prosecutor? A real moral, ethical attorney undoubtedly appointed by an upstanding moral ethical attorney general or even an honorable congress. No! I submit that until there are a majority not a minority of honorable men in our federal government will it matter. The only answer is for the American sheep to awaken to the reality that the wolves are in our pasture and we must rid ourselves of them by demanding morality and ethics of the proper sort. Vote and vote these sort of people out of office. Send them packing, back to their lush corporate begginings. When they committ the sort of acts like those scoundrels at Enron have, send them to the penitentiary and I'm not talkin about Club Fed send them to State Penitentiaries where time is as hard as the inmates. The American Voter has the power of change, but I fear we are to comfortable as a society to use it. If President Bush is guilty with regard to Enron let him stand up as a man of God should and confess to his countrymen what he has done.


-- PoePoe (, March 04, 2002.

I wondering what exactly Moore thinks the President should have done when Enron came crawling to them for help? Call a press meeting and announce that Enron was going down the drain? What would that have changed? As if everyone and their brother wouldn't have started hitting the bids on that stock if that happened.

-- Dave (, March 04, 2002.

Nope, this has nothing to do with homesteading. It has everything to do with the country we live in, what it is, and what it pretends to be. I posted the thread about 2-3 weeks ago on a "conspiracy" theory and there didn't seem to be a problem with it. If we're not supposed to discuss the fate of the nation then maybe we should eliminate the "political" category.

Whats so ironic about the responses so far is its a living demonstration of how "they" will get away with this kinda thing. Divide and conquer, one of the rules of war. The conservatives will jump on the bandwagon and say "liberal hogwash!". The liberals will say "Hmmmph! Just another rabid conservative! What do they know?" and we continue to be pawns of the opinion spinners, left and right. The conservatives have marginalized themselves just like the liberals did in the 80's, each by failing to recognize that other side had some legitimate grievances.

We don't have to look any further than this thread to SEE why we're a nation divided. While the liberals and conservatives are busy bickering amongst ourselves over some stupid labels the nation will continue to be looted by the power brokers who have nothing on their mind but MONEY and POWER.

SO WHAT if michael moore is a liberal? Do that mean there is no truth in what he sez? So what if Rush Limbaugh is a conservative? Does that mean there is no truth in what he sez? We've met the enemy and it is indeed US!

If there is truth in the allegations put forth by Moore and others quoted here, is it something that should be ignored? It makes me angry!

We live in a covert corporate oligarchy that is quickly becoming an overt corporate oligarchy. Is that what we want for our country? Do you actually want your voice to be heard? If so, I think its time to wake up and smell the stench and root it out.

But then, thats probably unpatriotic! Better to wave my flag and give GW Bush carte blanc. After all, he's an honorable man ain't he?

-- john (, March 04, 2002.

I think that perhaps before everyone throws the proverbial baby out with the bath water, it might be a good idea to take a look at how our SUPREME Court just legislated away the rights of small and private companies to control their own infrastructure today. Enron did not go away, it just changed names and anyone on the gird is going to get ripped off big time. IMHO, that has a big lot to do with homesteading. If nothing else it should be encouraging us to get more self sufficent, cause we are going to need it to continue doing what we are doing.

-- diane (, March 04, 2002.

We can't divorce ourselves from politics and shouldn't try. That's why we live in America, so we have a say. I confess I did not read past the part about Ole Bin what's- his- face maybe being dead. Oh, I hope so! And I hope he suffered a lot! I am all for paving the whole of Afghanistan and making a parking lot out of it. Seriously, this does impact us no matter where we live. Sigh, wish it was all over. LQ

-- Little Quacker (, March 04, 2002.

I'll tell you what makes me angry - When Michael Moore has a best selling book called "Stupid White Men" - sorry I find that offensive.

-- Ken Donnell, Plantersville, TX (, March 04, 2002.

OK Ken, so you're not a fan of Michael Moore. Thats makes us even. I'm not a fan of Rush and his flock of sheeple dittoheads either, but I'm not so blind as to recognize that he makes SOME legitamate points. Does Moore make any?

-- john (, March 04, 2002.

John, I agree with what you said. That's my problem with Moore, he's one of the great dividers. The point I was trying to make is he should tell the whole story. What he detailed goes on all the time and has for a long time. I think it's too late for hoping that votes will change it.

-- Dave (, March 05, 2002.

Dave: I'm not trying to pick a fight here but Moore is an ideologue, like Limbaugh is. For either of them there is no grey area---just black or white and my world ain't just black and white. Its shade of grey and a rainbow of colors.

For one if its "liberal" it must be "good" and for the other if its "conservative" it must be "good". Chances are the truth is gonna be found in the colors and the grey area because each have an agenda to put forth and promote and that makes neither of them entirely trustworthy because of their respective biases. Each will selectively tell the "truth" and will leave out those points that while true, detract from their position.

What point of Moore's piece were the truth?

-- john (, March 05, 2002.

If anyone has any doubts about the administrations' culpability for the predicament we, as a nation, find ourselves, please then, check out Mike Ruppert is a true hero.

Personally, I am affected by Enron, as my meager pension as a school bus driver was (is?) invested in an Enron subsidiary. And now I cannot get a straight answer from the pension fund administrator or my elected representative when asking to find out if the fund has been relieved of the burden of carring Enron in its' portfolio. This (pension) was to be the residual income that would finally, in my golden years, allow me to be on the land and enjoy some of the "good life" that I've always dreamed about...doing an honest days' work and feeling satisfied with the expenditure of each day's energy, instead of being engaged in mostly meaningless toil. That's why it has to do with homesteading,..for me.

-- John Fritz (, March 05, 2002.

Sounds like some of this bunch has been sniffing their kitty litter again.

-- charlieS (, March 05, 2002.

Seems the following was missed by most: "Enron had already scammed their way out of paying ANY taxes in four out of the last five years". This did not happen on GW's watch but under BC.

-- Mike (, March 05, 2002.

Before everyone gets their knickers twisted, think about this: Will getting upset DO anything besides raising your blood pressure? I doubt it! Will posting about it, change anything? Nope. Let's drop it and get back to homesteading. IMHO, it doesn't belong here anyway.

Should I buy or make cookies today?

-- Ardie/WI (, March 05, 2002.

Make 'em, Ardie. You know they're better.

-- Gayle Smith (, March 05, 2002.

Ardie, definitely make some cookies...and send me some. I'm still hoping I have time to sharpen my chainsaw today. I cut some sixteen foot posts out of locust last weekend and dug a little dirt with the chain and it is in dire need of a sharpening. Everybody have a nice day.

-- gilly (, March 05, 2002.

Well, I am sorry, but I just couldn't get past all of the heavy reading this morning....but did happen to see Ardie's offer for cookies! YUM! Chocolate chip or oatmeal? I'll bring the milk!;~)

-- Nan (, March 05, 2002.

I vote for chocolate chip. And goat milk of course.

-- VickiP. (, March 05, 2002.

agree or disagree this is not the forum. Letting political get involved and it cause too much trouble, get back to homesteading.

-- David in North Al. (, March 05, 2002.

Hey David, join the girls and I for some cookies and milk! We know what is really important in life! The hand that rocks the cradle and all that.......:~)! If more people would just work harder, hug more, and have cookies and milk every afternoon, the world wouldn't be in such a mess!

-- Nan (, March 05, 2002.

Posting the political diatribe of liberal dregs like Moore in this forum is highly inappropriate. The Enron debacle will die a slow, painful death. Very few, especially Moore and whoever chooses to publish or post these types of slanted ramblings, will ever understand exactly what happened, why, who knew what and when, etc. One thing is certain - legislation will be passed to prevent or at least discourage this type of thing from happening ever again. It will never be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that George W. knew what was to come, or did anything underhanded with regard to Enron. He just was not in a position to know. That said...the Enron collapse is a very complex matter that will be debated for years to come. What most people believe now is: we now have a man with INTEGRITY in the White House Very few (even most Democrats) would dare to suggest that his predecessor had that quality. Do we really want to put the country through the appointment of a special prosecutor at this time? Remember the division, squabbling, and embarassment the last time that happened? We have more important issues to address.

-- SteveD(TX) (, March 05, 2002.

Posting the political diatribe of liberal dregs like Moore in this forum is highly inappropriate

And posting the religious diatribe of conservative dregs isn't inappropriate?

-- Sherri C (, March 05, 2002.

The bottom line is Bin Laden can't die until the US Govt.'s anti terror agenda has been exorsied to a comfortable point. I can live with that kind of lie, though most can't. I could live with the truth too, Bin Laden gets personal with a daisy cutter and Iraq Iran N Korea and a few others take early retirement. The truth sucks, and even a lowly homesteader has to deal with the truth.

-- Ross (, March 05, 2002.

To Sherri C: Hmmm....don't think I mentioned it wasn't (was?) inappropriate. I was simply addressing the matter of this thread, not others. I also did not mention goats, the weather, etc. Just this thread.

-- SteveD(TX) (, March 05, 2002.

Thanks for sharing this. I really got a lot out of it, and am grateful it was here. Seems to be more relevant to my life than some of the other posts on Countryside. Politics does effect homesteading, even though most of us wish it didn't at all

-- marcee (, March 05, 2002.

I have thought about this post all day. When I first read it I wanted to make it go away. I greatly disliked this man's writing style and quite frankly didn't want to hear it. Who does?? I found President Clinton's behavior in office vile and think he should have resigned. But, on the other hand, I bitterly resented these people who represented themself as the moral majority who held the government captive while we learned what our president's most private parts looked like.

I guess sin is relative. Sexual sin has always captured the interest of the people and been used more than once to facilitate the overthrow of elected government. Uncontroled physical lust is far more obvious than uncontroled lust for power and money. In my opinion organized crime is now in control of our country, in the highest office and in the highest court and who the heck wants to look at that. I guess it is all in how you want to look at honorable.

-- diane (, March 05, 2002.

Well said Diane!

I see it like this Steve. Clinton was a confessed and obvious liar, about Monica and other things. Yes, Enron influenced Clinton too. So what? If this stuff is wrong for Clinton it oughta be wrong for Bush too.

To me this is not about Bush specifically but he happens to be in office now. There are however VERY obvious, undeniable, public ties between the Bush administration and Enron. THATS FACT. Some of it I'm sure can be made to sound all very innocent and plausible and maybe some of it actually is, but I can't say for certain and neither in fact can you.

So what if Michael Moore is over-the-top liberal? Does that mean he's incapable of telling truth even if it is a partial truth? If so, then the same standard would apply to Rush Limbaugh and others of his ilk. While you may not like the tone of Moore's piece the facts more or less speak for themselves don't they?

Diane is absolutely right about the organized crime aspects of this whole thing, and its not just about Bush. Its about the system that has developed over the years and it is DESTROYING any hope of a democratic republic. We must disempower money in the political system.

-- john (, March 05, 2002.

John and Diane - I am sorry but I do not believe that organized crime has any influence over the Federal government at the highest levels. Are there pockets of local influence...sure. But if you are talking about the types of organized crime that we think of in the traditional sense, no. Are the underhanded dealings of corporations such as Enron bordering on organized crime in a different sense, maybe. As for taking money out of the political process...this will not happen in my grandchildren's lifetime. Idealistic, yes; realistic, no. And personally, I would not want Rush Limbaugh's commentary on this site either. While I consider myself a conservative Republican, I am not a huge fan of his. The problem with people such as Moore and Limbaugh is that they are too slanted in their views - no room for opposition and no breaks for the other party no matter how well meaning their intentions are. Finally, in defense of Bush - I do not think that there is a politician alive today who would not tend to look the other way when huge sums of money and political ambitions are at stake. Does this prove that he did anything illegal or underhanded? No. This is reality, this is the American way, and it will not change anytime soon. But Bush has the support and confidence of the vast majority of Americans right now, and he deserves it. This I do not question.

-- SteveD(TX) (, March 06, 2002.

Well Steve, truth be known, I certainly hope you are right. I guess we will maybe know somewhere down the road. Blessings and good cheer to you. :>)

-- diane (, March 06, 2002.

John, He who has the money has the power in America. It has been that way forever. . . . has it not? I don't see it changing anytime soon.

I, do believe we have a man who is sincerely spiritual in the office of President at this time, and I think he is a man of integrity and honor. I am happy for that.

I've always thought I'm a conservative person. My son keeps pointing out all my "liberal" viewpoints. This I do know for sure. I am an INDEPENDENT. I make up my own mind, and I will listen to the viewpoints of all - - up till the moment I find the hypocrisy or the lie.

I see a bit of both in the article you posted.

Speaking of Enron investments. It seems to me the executives who sold their stock just before the collapse had "insider" information, and those sales should be voided. It also seems to me that those employees who lost "millions" by not being able to sell their stock didn't. Those values were inflated by the paper trail of fraud. I, for one, am not inclined to have MY tax dollars reimburse them those inflated and false values.

-- J McFerrin (, March 06, 2002.

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