I tried to attach this comment to another question in this forum, but didn't see an obvious place for it. I was lucky enough to buy quite a few second-hand lenses in the course of the last 16 months. All were bought at camera shows or off photo.net. All were -at least I think- real good deals to me. Just so you know what provoked this comment, this is what I ended up with: 75mm @ $335; 135mm @ $375; 165mm l.s. @ $355; 200mm (new old stock, older version) @ $300; 90mm (non l.s.) @ $200. All lenses have perfect glass, and two look like they have never been used; I also ended up with quite a few filters. My comment/concern is this: why is the stuff so cheap? I am not complaining mind you, just asking. The 75mm is an outstanding lens - and I think it sharper than the 55mm, while the macro 135 is great, and the recessed element design prevents any flare hassles, even when in the air. These prices are about half or even much less than half the cost new, mail-order (for the record, I bought the 75mm before the new one was even announced, so that shouldnt explain the price). I was just wondering why more value isn't held. For instance, I have bought L-Series EOS lenses from the mailorder houses, used them a few years, and sold them at shows or on ebay for closer to 75% of what I initially paid - sometimes more (for instance, paid $440 for an 100mm f2.0, used it for 18 months, and a friend sold it at a camera show for $375; I never would have sold it, mint, for $220, or less). Any thoughts on why the prices, especially ebay, are so incredibly low? Sure, ebay is a crap shoot, but I have seen lenses sold by people with huge, perfect feedback numbers go for a few hundred dollars. The value isn't being held, when on m.f. gear I thought it would be; I almost feel sorry for someone who pays camera store retail for a 67 lens. Again, not complaining, just asking (you might hear me complain if I ever try to sell this stuff and only get offers of $200!).

-- Carl Tower (cjtowerman@yahoo.com), March 02, 2002

Answers

I think the answer is that there is a LOT of turnover in this line of cameras. Many people try the 67 and its lenses and switch away - the reason so many try it is the low price...but that also allows for a BIG aftermarket of used bodies and lenses....I also think it has been around for so long - there are just many units out there....lastly - since the older version of the lenses are so good - the newer almost have compete against the older ones - thereby reducing the used value of the newer lenses....you can almost always find the newer model lenses at half there original tag......good for us 67 users - bad for us when we sell.....my answer - DONT SELL !!!

-- Dan (dcolucci@aol.com), March 03, 2002.

Carl, the prices you quoted are pretty much "in the ballpark" for 6x7 lenses, whether purchased on eBay or at a photo show. Even more surprising are the prices for used Bronica lenses for several of the earlier models (C, EC, S2, etc.): Nikkor 75, 100, and 200 at $150 or less. Wide angle and macro lenses maybe $100 more. While the lenses made by Nikon are my favorites, the Bronica Zenzanon series are also excellent and selling in the same range. Why these bargains? Many of these cameras and lenses are "old" from the 70s - and many people will always want to upgrade to have the latest technology. Sadly, medium format sales are down while digital is at an all-time high. That's having an impact on used MF equipment as well. Still, it's good news for those of us who never could have afforded a new, complete medium format system with four or five lenses and other accessories. And a footnote: while some describe eBay as a "crap shoot," the only negative experiences I've had there have been as a seller - people who bid and don't pay when they win.

-- William Gormly (wwgormly@aol.com), March 04, 2002.

FWIW: I am a recent P67 convert. A couple decades ago I tried a P67 and moved on, but had been hooked on the format. Recently, I tried it again and, like you, have purchased a few mint lenses. For all these years I had heard about P67 lens quality, and now have experienced a wider sampling. I plan to keep this bunch for about 15 years or more, using them for fun and research. The glass appears to be a sleeper for value, which is the biggest plus! All the negatives about P67's clunki-ness may be true, but it beats all the other "logs" I've tried. It's still way cheaper than 'Blad or Rollie, and the glass is as good, for the most part.

-- Jeff Drew (jdrew@ngcresearch.com), March 04, 2002.

Thanks for the replies. I had considered some of these possibilties, though not thought of all of them. You could well be correct, but I sometimes wonder about some analogies or points. I realize many people buy the camera and aren't thrilled, but I suspect the majority of them are buying used not new, which wouldn't be increasing the overall pool of cameras. I know if some areas of the country there may be a glut of p67 lenses, but I have had a hard time finding more than 1 dealer with them at the average camera show (and these shows are turning into Nikon-Mamiya conventions!), and camera stores handling consignment here in the Midwest dont have many. I could be wrong, but there appears to be far more Mamiya stuff out there than Pentax, and the "value" seems to be better for them. Upgrading always feeds the buying market, but several p67 lenses are the same design throughout the years. It is funny you mentioned the Bronica, as I too have seen prices I first thought were misprints. I know people who have purchased an S2, several backs and a few Nikon lenses for less than $500! This is only a related point, but I have had 3 bad ebay experiences (from people with good feddback), and I know 3 others who have had them too. In one case I didn't get the hardcase, lens caps, or filters pictured in the ebay ad - and the ad clearly stated "what you see is what you get". This maybe seem a nitpicky point, but the 3 82mm filters were worth a significant portion of the cost of the lens, and not having a rear cap is a nuissance - and I considered the value of them when I made my final bid. In another case the stop down lever was missing from the lens, and in another, the lens focused beyond infinity, if that is the proper descritpion of what it was doing. In one case I got a partial refund and kept the lens; in another I got my money back, but ate the shipping both ways (it was this or a lawyer, so...). And the case with the filters ended up in negative feedback; if I had to guess I would say the seller regreted not using a reserve price on the lens, and decided to keep the filters to make up for the low price it brought. I no longer buy from people who don't seem to really KNOW photography ("I am selling for a friend..."; "I inherited this stuff and..."; "This is a recent arrival, and although we have no body to mount it to..."; etc.). I look at their other auctions, and the vocabularly used in the ebay ad. Maybe I just had a string of bad luck, but the popularity of ebay has brought out some real dishonest people, and lots of broken merchadise. I love when a camera store sells a old SLR or Gossen meter and has the nerve to say right in the ad: "pretty sure it works, we just dont have a battery to test it...". Give me a break!

-- Carl Tower (cjtowerman@yahoo.com), March 04, 2002.

Here in Belgium, prices of medium format stuff also seems to be dropping. The reasons why people sell...the one I hear most often: they switch to digital. There seems to be this panic feeling with a lot of people: digital is coming, sell all your film cameras, because in 5 years time, they'll be nothing more than paperweights.

I've seen quite a few MF bargains here in the past months, even from dealers. A couple of weeks back, I bought a Mamiya C330 with prism finder, L-grip, 55, 80, 135 and 180 Super lenses in a Mamiya custom case, nearly everything mint, for about $780. Hasselblad seems to keep its value pretty well, but the price of a clean RB67 with 120 mag, WL finder and 90 or 127 lens has declined from 1200 to 800 in some places.

-- Stefan Geysen (stefg@pandora.be), March 06, 2002.

Stefan,

Did you see the good prices in Bruxelles or elsewhere? I'm currently looking for MF equipment but still find the prices for used equip. quite high.

Thanks

-- william westergren (westergren@skynet.be), March 27, 2002.