Effective, I believe, April 1, 2002 portable propane tanks cannot be refilled if they do not have a special anti-overfill valve. Have been told retrofitting them is just as expensive as buying new tanks from discount places like Lowes.

You will need to work with your local recycling agency on how old tanks can be disposed of. I suspect, as a minimum, the valve would have to be completely open to empty the tank, and even then the valve might have to be removed before they will accept them for recycling.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 10, 2002

Answers

news to you, but not news to those that sell the little adapters that can be used to refil 10 oz cylinders. Those adapters will not work on the new valves because they have a float valve feature so they can not drain any gas upside down. Hard to type (explain) but if you have one you know that the adapters require that the 20 lb tanks be tilted upside down. So those folks have been sold an adapter that will soon be useless

-- Marc (toymeister@hotmail.com), February 10, 2002.

Does this just include 20# tanks or 100# tanks also? Last I was in stores month or so ago, TSC and Lowes were selling modern version of 100# tanks with what looked like regular POL valve, but I didnt examine them real close.

I might also mention if 20# tanks become legally unfillable, might consider adapting them as a portable air tank.

-- HermitJohn (hermit@hilltop_homestead.zzn.com), February 10, 2002.

The new regs don't apply to the 100# tanks.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), February 10, 2002.

Ken:

May depend on who you talk to and what the new cylinders cost. I retrofitted one tank for $26.

Mac

-- Jimmy S (Macrocarpus@gbronline.com), February 10, 2002.

Cylinders including the high pressure cylinders used for medical and welding gases seem to be one of those subjects that those in the know make money off those who don't.

Anyone can buy cylinders directly from the manufacturers as long as you meet the minimum order requirements. Last I checked one company, Worthington, had a $1,000 minimum. There's no reason several individuals couldn't go together to make up an order. That order can consist of anything they sell. Not just one item.

New valves could probably be ordered in quantity at a far cheaper price than retail. It might be possible to make a few bucks by buying up old non-compliant cylinders in good shape, installing new valves, painting them, and then reselling them.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), February 10, 2002.

Hermit John:

How could they be converted into air tanks?

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 10, 2002.

you just need the right adaptors to make the tank fitting adapt to an air hose - pretty easy conversion. I have heard that you need to use the tank upside down for a while to get the propane smell out, and of course there are safty issues with pressure & flamible gas, so I'm not giving any advise....

As to buying $1000 worth of regulators & installing them for others, the problem is of course the govt. Only licenced people can do such a thing!!!! We are becoming such an over-regulated society individuals can no longer function. Why are the valves being changed to _begin_ with? It's not like there are 10 reports of exploding tanks every week in the paper. What was the problem? Was there one? Or did someone just need to make more & more paperwork?

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), February 10, 2002.

I agree with you Paul. The government bureaucracy has to justify itself so we see more and more nitpicking as the federal folks sit around in their cubicles and think up stuff to justify their jobs.

I know a guy in New Jersey who volunteers for a township paramedic unit. He put together a cylinder filling station so his unit could fill the small size medical cylinders from the large H cylinders. To my knowledge it didn't take a special license. The people who run the businesses selling gases and renting cylinders would prefer you not to know all the ins and outs.

Last year he told me the state of New Jersey was considering requiring medical oxygen to be filtered as it was being transferred to a cylinder. A filter for his setup would run $5,000. The law if passed would have cost the township a lot of money because they would have had to go back to having a business fill their small cylinders.

It turned out that some folks in the gas business had a relative in the legislature and they were trying to further protect their business. When the connection was discovered, the law died in committee.

There is no difference between oxygen used for welding and that used for medical purposes. The regulatory differences are that medical cylinders must have a chromed valve, $5 more than the standard brass valve, and a medical cylinder must be pumped out either two or three times as compared to once for a welding gas cylinder before refilling.

Now because of some drone probably in the DOT, folks will have to spend money replacing 20# propane cylinders that are perfectly good.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), February 10, 2002.

I use alot of the smaller propane tanks at work. Someone discovered that we could take an empty tank, with the old valve, down to the grocery store that has one of those metal cabinets outside where they trade in tanks. You give them your old illegal tank, they give you back a new or refurbished totally legal tank with the new valve, and full of propane. It costs about $12-17 for the trade. Then you simply refill your new tank like usual, until they change the rules again in the future. That saved me a bundle.

-- Eric in ID (umm@nope.com), February 10, 2002.

Eric:

I asked the shop manager at the Co-op that while he was refilling my two bottles. He smiled and said yes, but the company which supplies these places are becoming wise about being stuck with the old bottles. I'd try a convenience store late at night.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 10, 2002.

Ken, Paul pretty much answered the question about making an air tank out of 20# LP tank. You can either attach to the valve with adapter POL fitting then attach filler valve, gauge, and air hose. Or you can remove the POL valve and use pipe fittings screwed into tank where valve was. Surely you've seen those cheap conversion kits to make an air tank out of old freon bottles? They are wrong size to fit in LP tank, but what I am describing out of pipe fittings is along same line.

-- HermitJohn (hermit@hilltop_homestead.zzn.com), February 11, 2002.

I have known about this for over a year. Here is southern Oregan we can take our 20# tanks to Walmart, Fred Myers and Albertson's and they will exchange the old style tank for the new, if the existing tanks will pass inspection. I was told by the people at "Amerigas" that it is only for the 20# & 30# cylinders. I have been exchanging my 20's all winter as I use them up. The cost difference for retro fitting the 30's makes it worth it for me but not the 20's.

-- hendo (redgate@echoweb.net), February 11, 2002.

Marc. YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!! I was EMAIL this site on the Internet by a concerend customer and see that you had told everyone that the MacCoupler Valve that allows you to refill the throw away propane cylinders like the Coleman type cylinders, will not work with the new 20, 30, 40lb propane bottles with the new anti overfill valve inside. PLEASE STOP telling folks this as IT IS NOT TRUE it will work fine! I sell this valve and use it just fine with all the tanks so Please dont speak of things you do not have first had knowledge of! WE HAVE BEEN SELLING THESE VALVES FOR THE YEARS AND THEY WILL WORK WITH BOTH THE OLD AND THE NEW TANKS! AND THEY WORK GREAT!!!! thay save money and our landfills. We stand behind them 100% with a lifetime guaranty just like a Crafstman tool! FOR MORE INFO ON THIS YOU CAN SEE THEM AT WWW.MACCOUPLER.COM

Marcs message at top of first page RE: news to you, but not news to those that sell the little adapters that can be used to refill 10 oz cylinders. Those adapters will not work on the new valves because they have a float valve feature so they can not drain any gas upside down. Hard to type (explain) but if you have one you know that the adapters require that the 20 lb tanks be tilted upside down. So those folks have been sold an adapter that will soon be useless -- Marc (toymeister@hotmail.com), February 10, 2002.

-- Kev'n Horton owner Preparation Enterprises (wkhorton@gte.net), February 12, 2002.

Reference the last post. The link www.maccoupler.com takes you to the posters page. Maybe he is right or maybe just clearing out his old stock. Either way another source for these couplers are K&N in Kalakaska Michigan. They manufacture them and compete against mac- couplers' (or maybe they make them -?) They retail for 16.95 which is a better deal than the 21.95 on Maccouplers.com. And no I do not work for K&N or have any interest in the firm.

-- Randy (randy16@aol.com), February 12, 2002.

RE : last post.........LOL Here you are again talking about something you know nothing about !!! My site has the seggested Retail Price of $21.95 however when you order the cost is $14.95 I am not clearing out my stock and intend on selling these for years to come! as you can see our adds in many publacations like Back woods home, Lats & Atts (sailing ) Countrysides and many more So Please do us all a favor and if you dont know what you are talking about then keep your paint up and dont speak OK if anyone wants more info on the Maccoupler you can call us toll free at 888-493-4517

-- Kevn Horton (wkhorton@gte.net), February 12, 2002.