hello all,

since the eos 30 was introduced many have asked if the 3 is really worth it - for twice the price you get an almost 100% finder image and true spotmetering, while the 30 offers better eye control and AF.

has anyone heard rumours of a possible replacement of the eos 3? the price in germany has dropped considerably in the last few months (against rising inflation and a sinking currency)and, given that the 3 is one of the oldest in the canon lineup, it would seem reasonable to expect something is up.

would be glad to hear from y'all

cheers

carl

-- carl weller (carlweller@yahoo.com), February 07, 2002

Answers

The price of the EOS 30 (Elan 7) has dropped in the US as well. The cameras really are too similar to appeal to different markets (the EOS 3 is fully weather-sealed, though, like the 1n and 1v).

This is just my guess, but I would doubt Canon would replace the EOS 3. It might just "combine" the 3 and 30 into one camera--which is to say, drop the price of the EOS 3 from about $800 to $600 (half the way to the EOS 30 at $400) so that we 30 users would be more tempted to buy it.

The EOS 3 has been caught in the middle. Is it a poor man's 1V or a rich man's 30?

-- Preston Merchant (merchant@speakeasy.org), February 07, 2002.

Only Canon knows what the next SLR release will be. Personally I don't expect the EOS-3 to be replaced very soon. It seems that the (semi-)professional bodies are kept in production for quite some time, while the amateur bodies have a shorter product life cycle. The EOS-5 and -1N were in production for quite some time. My bet is on the EOS-300, the competition in that marked segment is tough.

I haven't heard any rumours of new (film) bodies, there are however rumours about one or two new digital bodies.

Just my 2c,

-- Jos van Eekelen (jos@compuserve.com), February 07, 2002.

The Japanese market has seen an upgrade to the EOS Kiss III - the Japanese name for the Rebel 2000/EOS 300, incidentally. The Kiss III L has a backlit top deck LCD, (yes! Please continue this through the line, Canon!) RC-5 wireless controller and a shinier silver look.

-- NK Guy (tela@tela.bc.ca), February 07, 2002.

I own both the EOS Elan 7E (30) and the EOS 3. Although, they're both wonderful cameras, they're from different worlds, intended for different users.

First, where did you hear the EOS 30 has faster AF than the EOS 3? That's a myth! In good light, they're basically the same--very fast with a fast prime (F2.8+). As the light get low, the EOS 3 leaves the Elan 7E/30 in the dust. Long after the EOS 3 has locked AF, the Elan 7E/30 will rack and forth and give you the AF failure light.

The EOS 3 has high precision AF whereas the Elan 7E/30 has normal precision AF. In other, the EOS 3 has a much smaller margin of focus error build into its system. High precision AF is important with big glass where DOF is extremely shallow.

As far as better ECF, that's true, the EOS Elan 7E/30 is better in terms of being more accurate out of the box. With the EOS 3's 45 AF points active, about 20- 30% of the time ECF selects a AF point next to the one you intended. Of course, they're so packed so closely it usually doesn't matter. However, when you set custom function CF 13-2, the AF points are trimmed down to 11 thereby achieving the same near 100% accurately and ECF speed as the Elan 7E/30.

-- Puppy Face (doggieface@aol.com), February 07, 2002.

I own both the EOS 30 and EOS 3. In my opinion you cannot mention them in the same context. They are miles apart. The EOS 3 must rate as one of the best value for money cameras currently available. It is a truly professional camera at half the price of the 1V. As for the focussing I cannot believe that Canon claim that the auto focussing of the EOS 30 is on a par with the EOS 3. As a nature and sport photographer I can testify from first hand experience that the EOS 30 cannot compare with the EOS 3 when it comes to focus tracking a fast moving subject. Get the EOS 3 + PB-E2 - for fast action photography this is the one to get.

-- Nico Smit (Nico@anp.co.za), February 08, 2002.

hello all,

i'm well aware of the target markets and respective functions of both cameras and didn't want to give anyone the idea that the two are comparable. the thing is, when you're looking for a new eos, you must automatically make the comparison! especially when the eos 3 is so "stuck in the middle".

and, lets face it, most of us who are interested in the 3 don't really need it - we just want one or two really important things that the 30 doesn't offer: bigger finder and spotmetering - and suffer from "upgrade sickness" :) of course. i don't know of many amateurs that shoot often in pouring rain, and am personally not interesting in the 3 for that reason - i just wanna use slide film without hassels. why canon couldn't have put a bit more effort in and given the 30 at least spotmetering (i.e. a similar camera to the minolta dynax 7) i don't know.

the "better" AF comes from lab tests from the leading german photo mags - they rate it as second best behind the nikon F5 in the lab.

ready for a shock? the prices for camera bodies here in germany are also different: eos 30 roughly 650 US, eos 3 was roughly 1300 US, now just over 1000 US!

cheers

carl

-- carl weller (carlweller@yahoo.com), February 08, 2002.

The EOS 30's AF won't touch the EOS 3. The EOS 30's AF system is still based on the Multi-BASIS sensor introduced many years ago. I am very familiar with the sensor's capabilities as I have an EOS 5. The EOS 3 and EOS 1V use a new CMOS AF sensor, which is a lot more capable than Multi-BASIS.

EOS3: 1 Cross-type high-precision AF sensor at F4. Single-axis, normal precision to F8. 6 additional Cross-type high-precision AF sensors at F2.8. All single-axis, normal-precision to F5.6 38 additional single-axis, normal precision AF sensors available at F5.6 or faster.

EOS 30: 1 Cross-type, normal precision sensor at F5.6 or faster. 6 addition single-axis, normal precision sensors at F5.6 or faster.

Thus, the EOS 3 has high precision focus which the EOS 30 does not. The EOS 3 has many more sensors than the 30 (of limited use to some). The EOS 3 has F8 AF capability with the central sensor. The EOS 3 has a FAR more powerful CPU dedicated to the AF algorithms.

The only thing that is faster in the EOS 30's AF is the Eye-control, which is lagged at 55ms, rather than 67ms of the EOS 3. However, the 67ms is for 45-point selection, while the EOS 30 has only 7 point selection. The EOS 3's point selection is faster if it is limited to 11 points, as there is a custom function to allow.

Try handling both cameras, and you will discover that the EOS 3 is a FAR more capable body in most respects.

-- Isaac Sibson (isibson@hotmail.com), February 08, 2002.

>The EOS 30's AF system is still based on the Multi-BASIS sensor introduced many years ago. I am very familiar with the sensor's capabilities as I have an EOS 5. The EOS 3 and EOS 1V use a new CMOS AF sensor, which is a lot more capable than Multi-BASIS.

Actually, I'm not sure that the technology used to make the AF chip matters so much. The EOS 30 also uses a CMOS-based AF sensor, apparently. It's just that it's a really cheap one with poor sensitivity compared to pro cameras like the 3 and 1V.

-- NK Guy (tela@tela.bc.ca), February 08, 2002.

I got the EOS 3 a year ago after shooting with Elans and Rebels, and the answer to your question is YES it is worth it. Not only for the speed and viewfinder but for the focus ACCURACY. I don't need 7 fps but I do care that my bird flight shots come out sharp. I never got consistently sharp tracking shots with my 300 f4 IS with the lesser bodies.

I don't care what the Tschörman photo magazine says, the 30 doesn't have faster AF. Just faster ECF.

-- Ming Kuo (mtkuo@hotmail.com), February 08, 2002.

thanks for all the info guys. i had pretty much convinced myself that i "need" an eos 3 - it was just the question of whether i get one now or maybe wait a few months for a possible replacement (the sudden and significant price-reduction made me think it a possibility). cos you know i'd just die if i get the 3 and then a replacement comes out two weeks later...

the comment about the the eos 30 was more to say that even relatively inexpensive new technology can come quite close to what the best of 1998 (i.e. the 3) offers.

cheers

carl

-- carl weller (carlweller@yahoo.com), February 10, 2002.

Canon prices always drop after the first couple of years on the market. The EOS A2E was introduced at a price of $1200 in the USA and the price steadily declined over the years. The EOS 3 prices are just following the normal Canon curve...I hope they drop another couple of hundred bucks this year so it won't cost me so much when I finally order one. The EOS 3 may be one of the oldest cameras in the line up but it's only been around for about 4 years. I don't think it has an expiration date stamped on it.

-- Lee (Leemarthakiri@sport.rr.com), February 10, 2002.