Hi,we need some help please.My wife and I currently live in N.J.,we are beginning our search for a place to move in the near future.We have a few criteria which we would like to meet,snow(along with a relatively cool enviroment),wooded,reasonable land prices and taxes,approximately within 6 hours of N.J.,avalible work,healthcare,and friendly people.The states we are considering are,N.H.,V.T.,N.Y.,P.A.,V.A.,W.V.and M.D.My wife and I,with your help, would like to narrow down the search to some specific areas. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou, Ron

-- Ron (lauron@518.com), January 28, 2002

Answers

Im in western Maryland here love it!! But last week i went to the Eastern panhandle of West Virginia!! Seen lots of land and places for sale!! area seems homesteader frendly!! Lots of work in Winchester and Martinsburg area !! Check out Agusta And Slainesville WV area !! If you need help or any info on South Central Pa or western Maryland area il try and help you! Grizz!!

-- Grizz In Western Maryland (southerneagle@yahoo.com), January 28, 2002.

I've been surprised by the number of folks in central WV who have retired here from NJ. This area is about 8 hours from NJ. If Corridor H (Rt 33) is four laned to VA that'll be cut by a couple of hours.

Compared to NJ, the property taxes are miniscule. For the price of a house in NJ you can buy a newer house and a hundred acres here with lots of money left over from the sale of your previous house. If you look around you can buy property with free natural gas.

The other difference is far fewer government services. You'll pay for your own garbage pickup. There may not be an animal control officer in the county. Zoning, in the county, is non-existent.

Don't expect the sheriff to bust a gut coming out for a minor complaint, etc. And if you're out on the interstate with Jersey plates doing say 79 in a 70mph expect a ticket while the trooper lets the ones with WV plates zoom by at 80.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), January 28, 2002.

We are also from NJ and live in central WV I am guessing very close to Darren, we are about 7 1/2 to 8 hours depending on how many times you stop from NJ, we lived in Ocean County so that is ceentral NJ.My husband is retired and we bought our home for 162,000 it is a little ranch 15 yrs old, we have 63 acres and free gas. We live nicely on my husbands pension the kids love it here. We sold our home in NJ for 152,000 and had a 100 x 100 lot and taxes that were $2600/yr. We did pay for garbage in NJ and it is about the same here. Our taxes here in WV are about $320 yr. But everything is taxed food and clothes. I love it here and would never go back to NJ it is beautiful country and the people have accepted us with open arms I feel like I have lived here forever not since July. Go to www.realtors.com and they are very helpful that is how we found this place with the help from my mother the real estate agent. Good Luck my vote is West Virginia. Oh ya my mom moved here from Flemington area 10 yrs ago and my grandparents moved here from Old Wick area 12 yrs ago and they to love it here.

-- sonneyacres (jtgt12@ntelos.net), January 28, 2002.

We are quite happy in Maine from the "beyond the sidewalks" perspective. Taxes are a bit high, but other aspects are good. You'll never become a true Maineiac unless you were born here, but we have only lived here full time for 25 years, and first moved here in 1962. We like the independent attitude, together with the unwavering help of neighbors if you are accepted into the fold. You are NOT accepted into the fold if you come here and want to enjoy the rural lifestyle, but want to retain the yuppie attitude "from away". A real plus for me is that on a mere 40 acres, I have a rifle/pistol range in the back yard. This is country that is (so far) NRA friendly, and I do not speak of the National Rehabilitation Act. (Few will understand, but God Bless those of you who do.). Maryland is (we've lived there) unfortunately a nest of liberals. Nice place, a bit too far south for we cold weather types, but out of the question for a Libertarian. Think Germany in 1938! Vermont is nice, but they have welcoming signs that say "Welcome to the Poofter State". Sort of California East. Massachusetts is a good place to be FROM. I guess my vote would probably be NH (Live Free or Die!), but WV is the best choice if you want Really good roads and can tolerate Timber Rattlers. There are many places in NY that are very fine indeed. Just remember that you will be dominated by the politics of New York City. You don't think the Wicked Bitch of the East-( whoops, I meant Wicked WITCH of the East!) was elected senator by upstate folks, do you? Good luck on your quest!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), January 28, 2002.

Brad,what are Black Flies like? Ron

-- Ron (lauron518@aol.com), January 28, 2002.

I have for sale a farm in East Tennessee,Hancock County.We are 8miles from Virginia.If you would like to see some pictures or like to know some more info contact me .Don www.donschwartz2002@yahoo.com

-- Don Schwartz (donschwartz2002@yahoo.com), January 28, 2002.

Hi Ron,

See you have several responses from WV. I moved from SE PA to SE WV 10 years ago. I am half way in between Charleston, WV and Roanoke, VA, 40 miles south of interstate 64. It is 5 1/2 hrs to Balto. MD.I love it here. My taxes for 55ac, 8 room 2 story house and new 40 x 50 metal barn are less than $200/yr...that's the good news. The other part is there is very little employment unless you have a work-from- home business, which I do. Like the other folks said there are taxes on food, clothes etc and gasoline is higher.Also if you need a Wal- mart or a Lowes home improvement center that is a 40 mile drive. But all things considered not a bad trade off for the environment and even during these changing times I do not have to lock my door.

Bill Alderson, WV

-- Bill Vaughn (ewvaughn@mtneer.net), January 28, 2002.

I moved to WV from PA 4 yrs ago. I love it. We're west of Morgantown -south of Pittsburgh. You have to "drive around alot to find good, cheap properties. Most of them have "signs" -ie, not advertised. Look south of Mgntn. all along Rte. 79 that way. I wasn't born in WV, but I got here as soon as I could!

-- Elizabeth Quintana (rockshelter@webtv.com), January 28, 2002.

Jeez Brad, what a negative political diatribe.

I don't think these folks asked for anyones personal political manifesto. They couldn't care less one way or the other. Political arguments of any flavor have no place on this board. There is plenty of other places to spout that stuff without cluttering up the board here. Peoples politics and religion are their own business anyway.

What these folks were asking for is some good possibilities and options on places that might be good to move to considering value, overall cost including taxes, job possibilities within their 6 hour search area.

Joe Friday

-- Joe Friday (nospamfrom@webposts.com), January 29, 2002.

Joe, I thought Brad's post was amusing, as well as imparting important information. Many people move from one area thinking that people in the new area are going to have the exact same religious/political/ social views they did in the old area.

It doesn't work that way. For example, even though CA is by and large considered to be a liberal state, there are here and there several pockets of conservatism. It's a big state. It is important to know "how things are done" in the place you hope to move to. Someone from the Bible Belt would probably be uncomfortable living in San Francisco, and vice versa. It would be a horrible thing to waste time and money on such a move when you could have found out beforehand that maybe you'd be happier somewhere else.

There are more issues than just taxes, distance to shopping and jobs, etc. to consider when making a move.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 29, 2002.

I've moved all the US and have found that for the most part, religious, social and political views don't come much into play if you mind your own business. Things are pretty much the same wherever you go in the US.

What GT said about California is so true. I've been here 2 years. Everyone assumes this state is a liberal hotbed but overall I don't see it. The area I'm in is very conservative, very Republican. The school district is conservative and has none of the extremist liberal stuff people associate with California.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 29, 2002.

Hi Ron! We live inSE VT., close to Brattleboro. Been here two years now, good people reasonable job opportunities... Biggest employer probably Mt. Snow, seasonal employment for the most part. C&S Wholesalers, FiberMark, INC. are constantly hiring for factory and production work. The ten acres below us is going for 23,000 dollars. Hope that gives you some idea of the area. Terran in VT.

-- Terran in VT (homefire@sover.net), January 29, 2002.

Dave, I think the political/religious/social stuff is much more important in the small towns (small as in everybody knows you type towns) than in medium to large cities. It can be difficult if not impossible to mind your own business in a small town. The Wanda Urbanska (and another author, I forget) book about moving to a small town really addresses these issues. I know a lot of people who have moved to different places because of taxes and so forth, and have been a bit at odds with the way of life and become homesick for the old place, and actually wind up moving back. Depends upon what is important to you.

I used to have friends in the Riverside County area (Norco, Corona, etc.) and would visit every so often. Years ago that area was pretty conservative, as was San Diego, for the most part. Is that still the case? Is Norco still horse-centered? (The father of one of my friends who lived in Norco always referred to it as "(# of horses, twice that number of the other end) because of the city's overly permissive horse policies) which bordered on the ridiculous if you were not a horse owner. For example I-15 would have been completed much sooner if Norco hadn't fought it based on arguments such as "the freeway noise will scare the horses". As you can tell, this was years ago! lol.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 29, 2002.

I am from western MD and north central WV, still have tons of family there as well, I love that area, BUT, WV taxes are way too disagreeable for me, and the "police state " of MD does not appeal to me either, and jobs are a long way off to drive to as well, usless you are right next to Morgantown and property costs too much there.

So, we picked SE Ohio, land and property taxes are dirt cheap ( 600 a year on 104 acres, half of that goes to the school systems), plenty of work, close to stores and supplies, and the people are unbelievably friendy and helpful and kind to one another, just like folks were 50 years ago, crime is almost completely nonexistent, especially violent crime.

Ron, here is the website I give everyone considering moving to the boonies, www.swisslands.com. Check them out before you look any further, they are nice folks and really try to help you find YOUR place in the country!!!

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), January 29, 2002.

GT. Norco is still very much "Horsetown USA". My children go to Norco elementary because there's no room at our elementary school here in Corona Hills(a few miles southeast of Norco). Their school is surrounded by horse pasture and instead of sidewalks, Norco has horsetrails. Even the convenience stores have hitching posts. You can't look anywhere there without seeing a horse.

New home construction is going strong here. I've been here about 16 months. It's a nice place though the smog can be incredibly bad north of here along the mountain range that stretches from LA to San Bernadino. I liked Irvine/Laguna beach area more(except the cost) and will probably end back down in that area sometime in the next year.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 29, 2002.

here's a pic(taken with cheap digital cam) from yesterday out at the Hart Ranch here. These horses are movie stars actually, used in movies and tv.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 29, 2002.

Thanks Dave!

I remember the smog--can only imagine how bad it is now (last time I visited was around '95. The water wasn't too good either--too many septics too close to the wells I think. I know there is a toll road in the area now along the '91 freeway. It used to be a good place commute- wise--within an hour of LA, the beach, the mountains, but the traffic must be even worse now.

Laguna is especially nice--learned how to scuba dive there. I suppose by now they have built over the El Toro and Tustin airbases with houses.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 29, 2002.

Guess I have to come back again! Ron, the black fly is the State Bird of Maine! However, it depends upon the amount of rain in spring. Last year, we had few. In a good (bad) year, we are very annoyed, but the season only lasts about 3 weeks. Then it gets nice. I figure if I can have survived 8 years of the most despicable man in history living at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, I can survive most anything God can throw at me. He has a wonderful, if bizarre, sense of humor. Why else would He have allowed the most useless pile of chicken poop to have lived as long as he has? But I digress. Ron - I suggest you spend some time figuring out which area seems most attractive to you. Then, go there, and RENT for a year or so, not committing your life savings. If that's the place, go for it! If not, try again without a committment that locks you in. You'll find your place. Just be careful! And GL!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), January 29, 2002.

GT, actually the locals say the smog is better now. I can't imagine it being worse. It seems this was a good place to commute to LA from until everyone moved out here. Corona itself has doubled in population the last 10 years. 91 is more like a parking lot during rush hours.

El Toro/Tustin base is still sitting deserted. Hundreds of nice homes and apartments sitting empty for years now. They've got a big court mess going on over it but it looks like they're going to use some of it for a new airport to serve LA, even though John Wayne international airport is a few miles away. I've always thought it was a shame that the homes and apartments numbering over 1000 units are sitting empty while there's a shortage of housing in that area. I think it's mostly the locals in power and Irvine Ranch that don't want affordable housing there. 2 bedroom apartments rent for $1200 and up in that area.

Laguna beach is pretty nice. I go to the beaches alot because it's cheap entertainment. Spent all day at San Onofre on Friday.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 29, 2002.

I glad Norco is still a horse comunity!! I remember driving through when we lived in So CA and seeing all the horses and trails. We lived in Fontana. We had horses when we lived there but the area where we were was not set up for trails. We heard that where once a neighbor had a racehorse excersise track in back of where we lived now has apartments and houses. It was so nice to watch the horses in the morning!! So many changes!! Things can change so look into any trends in the area you are considering. What is the area doing and what are the job prospects. Taxes are a big decision maker.

-- PJC (zpjc5_@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

PJC is right--look into long-range planning for cities and counties (that vacant land next door may be a Walmart or industrial complex in 10 years), check into things like renter vs. owner-occupied ratios, some areas are effectively pretty vacant (say vacation areas for the most part, or future retirement areas where people have bought homes but can't find good-paying work so are staying in the city until they do retire) year round, which (depending on what you like to vote for) can be good or bad for tax levies and things like that. Income levels also--people who don't make enough to pay taxes often vote for others to pay more.

Not to unnecessarily bring up politics again but Brad did illustrate in his first post how one city (because of population concentration) can dictate the policies of an entire state when it comes to referendums passing and things like that. Again, depends on your own personal views as to whether that is good or bad....

The more rural you are, the worse healthcare tends to be (both as far as choice and quality of care), that's what we've seen, anyway. A lot of people wind up staying in one state as opposed to moving because their healthcare is tied to their union agreement or state. It can be difficult to find self-contained HMOs (like Kaiser Permanente) for example, where you have smaller deductibles and co-pays, if that's what you want.

Dave, did they remove the wooden hangars at Tustin (they were supposedly national historical buildings)? Darn it, all this talk of the beaches reminds me of a restaurant called Walt's Wharf at Seal Beach. They used to have the best charbroiled fish....Yum!

See Ron, I did get back to the original question, although in a roundabout way (smile).

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 29, 2002.

GT, those huge blimp hangars are still there and will probably stay. One is used for indoors movie sets, not sure what they do in the other one. There's still a few 100 acres of veggie crops surrounding them too.

Another thing to look into with rural areas is how is what supports the local economy and how stable it is. I've lived in some rural areas where the whole local economy was basically dependent on one mill, factory, etc. One business going under can wipe out the entire area. Saw this happen to quite a few areas back east and down south after NAFTA passed.

Ron, you didn't say whether north or south jersey but I'm wondering why you haven't considered Delaware in that list. That'd be the first places I'd look coming from NJ and wanting to stay close. Central/ N.E. PA also has that criteria in some areas.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 29, 2002.

Dave,we live in North Jersey.The reason why we didn't mention Deleware was,their small amount of snow(to my knowlege).Thankyou all for your interest.Ron

-- Ron (lauron518@aol.com), January 29, 2002.

The upper half of DE still gets quite a bit of snow. Reasonable land, quite a bit of wooded areas west of Wilmington. Have you looked much in NE PA? Lots of reasonable wooded land there but work could be a problem depending on what type of work you do. Healthcare would be sparse also.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 29, 2002.

Dave,the only thing that makes us leery of NE Pennsylvania is how crowded the Poconos are getting.People working in and near New York City are moving there in large numbers.Thanks,Ron

-- Ron (lauron518@aol.com), January 30, 2002.

What Brad said about NY is correct - If you live there (city or country) you are dominated by the politics of the city (taxes, etc.) - AND I do think that politics are EXTREMELY important when considering where to move - If I were looking to move, I'd appreciate that type of information!

-- hmm (h.m.metheny@att.net), January 30, 2002.

I'm near Vidor TX and I would advise nobody to move to this hot place. I'm back to CA as soon as I finish this job!!!! RG

-- Ron (speedstar5558@yahoo.com), January 31, 2002.

To those of you who have understood my post - thank you! I was merely trying to explain the political attitude, which I find an important consideration as to the area in which you intend to spend the next few or several years, if not the rest of your life. I believe the 2nd Amendment to be among, if not THE most important amendment in the Bill of Rights. Others may disagree, and that is their right under our most wonderful system of government. Having said that, I believe Maine to be among the most reasonable states as to individual rights. I believe New York, California, and Maryland are among the states that are most likiely to subjucate your rights. Were we Germany in 1938, those states would have been in the forefront to eliminate the rights of the free (so far) populace of the great United States. Remember, if the 2nd Amendment is not upheld, the rights granted by the others will soon fall behind. Just my opinion, but I am quite sure that I am right! GL! And Ken - please don't wipe me out as being too political on this one. I'm only dealing with the continued existance of this Great Nation!

-- Brad (homefixer@SacoRiver.net), January 31, 2002.

Brad's got a point. When we move next year I'll want to know everything I can about possible relocation sites. Political, employment, schools, right down to the base attitudes of the locales.

just my 2 cents

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), January 31, 2002.