I haven't read Death Of The West yet, but I have certainly read Buchanan over the years, and some of his ideas have troubled me. Jamie Glazov has found a way to put my angst into words.

It's one thing to be a conservative, for smaller government, against multiculturalism and against the denigration of the father's role in the family. (Which I am.) It's another entirely to be a racist (which I am not), believing in the "inherent" superiority of white Europeans.

Speak it, Jamie.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), January 23, 2002

Answers

IMNHO, the key paragraph is this one:

But one thing is to criticize unrestricted, and therefore illogical, immigration and the agenda of multiculturalism. Another is to focus on race simply within the confines of race in and of itself. Buchanan never quite says it, but his implication is clear: humans of non-European descent cannot be true Americans, and they cannot build, value or reinforce the ways of life that make America great. That is a crock.

Yes, it IS a crock.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), January 23, 2002.

Seventeen individual nations have negative per capita rates of growth: Belarus, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Romania, Russia, Slovenia, Sweden, and Ukraine

As shown in this link, many European countries are already at NPG (negative population growth). Japan is close behind.

Why are not Caucasions at least achieving ZPG? Is our affluence our downfall?

-- (lars@indy.net), January 23, 2002.

lars you idiot! We don't want zero population growth for the White/Euro race! If we don't have lots of babies the darkies and mud people will outnumber us in our own country! Yes, we will be outnumbered in our own land, a land founded by and for white Christians.

-- Pat Buchanan (heil@heil.heil), January 23, 2002.

Lars,

Wealthy countries can afford birth control.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeeD@yahoo.com), January 23, 2002.

I agree that there is a correlastion between wealth and low birth rate but IMO the cost of birth contriol (or abortions) hasn't much to do with it. Try handing out free condoms in Mexico or Africa and see if this reduces birth rate.

I think it's affluence itself that reduces birthrate. It's Social Security that means a couple does not need many children to provide for them in old age. It's freedom for women to choose a career rather than a family. It's cultural, where large family's don't define a man's masculinity.

Eastern Eureope seems a special case. The economy is nearly 3rd world, yet birth rates are low (and suicide and alcoholism rates are high). It's like they have a death wish. I wonder why---long winters, 60 years of Communist deadly dullness? Something ails those folks.

-- (lars@indy.net), January 23, 2002.

And as that affluence is ever diluted and what we call Social Security is overwhelmed what happens? What happens when career takes the place of not just nurturing but the bearing of children as well? The culture (empire?) in question fades. Won't argue if thats good or bad or just the ever natural kneading of human culture but certainly it's beyond denial. Don't think Buchannan is prognosticaly wrong just frightened for the wrong reasons. It isn't a question of the color of the rat but of how many rats can you put in the same cage and have them remain civil. The cage is gettin pretty full.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), January 24, 2002.

Carlos is referring to experiments on the overcrowding of rats, the results of which are quite scary.

-- Peter Errington (petere7@starpower.net), January 24, 2002.

Try handing out free condoms in Mexico or Africa and see if this reduces birth rate.

Are you aware that 5 million people were murdered in Africa in the past 2 years? Not too newsworthy for some reason I guess.

It is a known cultural fact that prosperity reduces the birth rate, famine, poor economic factors increases birthrates. Been that way for thousands of years of human existence. I learned that in my highschool sociology class.

It is a natural phenomenon. Plants do it also. If I did not give my sunflowers water in the dry summer, they would go to seed. If they were provided adequate water they continued to prosper and only went to seed when the weather got colder.

-- Cherri (jessam5@home.com), January 24, 2002.

Stephen, your topic is interesting to me. I'm sorry it didn't get airplay by people more informed about Buchanan's work than I. I've never read anything written by him, nor have I ever listened to his televised programs. Actually, during his ill-fated presidential bid, there was such howling from the media about his racist, extremist views that I never bothered to pay attention to the man. In retrospect, I feel I made a mistake. Sometimes (okay, maybe often), views and opinions are attributed to public figures which may not be accurate portrayals. So...what I want to know now is this: is Buchanan on record, in his own words, making racist comments? Or, have such views been attributed to him by others...such as in this article you linked?

I read the article, and find the author credits his "sense" of Buchanan's racism to what the author believes is implied, rather than actually written, in Buchanan's book. Here are the excerpts from the article where the author references Buchanan's racial views:

"But it is one thing to criticize unrestricted -- and therefore illogical -- immigration and the agenda of multiculturalism. Another is to focus on race simply within the confines of race in and of itself. Buchanan never quite says it, but his implication is clear: humans of non-European descent cannot be true Americans

Buchanan clearly hides his darkest self behind his political lyrics. Aside from all the sense he might make about how certain minority cultures help to destroy America, I would be very curious to know his views on inter-racial relationships, especially when it involves the white race.

Buchanan is a great champion of freedom. So I can’t help but wonder: what would he think of a white woman exercising her freedom to marry a Hispanic or black male and having a baby with him? When Buchanan would look at that baby, what would be the thoughts going through his head?

In terms of what Buchanan argues in his book, I am not so sure that he would be very comfortable speaking truthfully about these questions on national television.

What profoundly disturbs me is that, when all is said and done, there are certain beliefs which inform Buchanan’s philosophy that he does not articulate. And it is, therefore, not what Pat Buchanan says, but precisely what he does not say, that remains, for me, the most frightening thing of all."

Stephen, personally what I find frightening is that the author is making serious allegations of racism, yet writes nothing to support such allegations. As I stated, I'm uninformed about Buchanan's views, and it's entirely possible the author is correct about them. BUT...how would anyone know from reading this article??

-- (just an@anonymous.one), January 24, 2002.

Cherri:

I am one of your long time friends; but your understanding of plant reproductive signals. Well, OK.

Best Wishes,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 24, 2002.

Cherri, genetically mandated last ditch attempts at procreation ain't what we're talkin about. You sunflowers would have produced MORE seeds with more water.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), January 25, 2002.

Cherri, genetically mandated last ditch attempts at procreation ain't what we're talkin about. Your sunflowers would have produced MORE, better capable seeds with more water. More water makes more seeds and more food allows more babies and the instinct always rides the edge between reproduction and famine. Unless, unless that instinct is replaced by comfort and then you're quite correct and then...here we are.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), January 25, 2002.

Oops

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), January 25, 2002.

Cherri, murder rates in Africa are tragically high (if your figures are corrct) but what does that have to do with condom usage?

-- (lars@indy.net), January 25, 2002.

Or Pat Buchanan...?

-- (just an@anonymous.one), January 25, 2002.

Z, folk rumor around here was that if you "whipped" the trees, they would produce more fruit. As a child forced to "whip" trees, I suspected this was merely a ploy to force us kids to expend energy, and to hell with the fruit production. Was I right?

-- helen (tired@from.birth.it.seems), January 25, 2002.

Lars, I think zero population growth is more closely related to the death rates of the population than wealth. In Eastern Europe, they did have reasonably long life expectancy and although that may be changing, people are still in the habit of expecting all their offspring to live. I think that many people have babies in order to have someone to support them in their old age.

Does anyone here have some reliable info on the survival rate of boys vs. girls in China and India? I've heard from different sources that girls are aborted and killed after birth in great numbers and that it's been going on for years. Assuming that it is indeed happening, I wonder how long it will be before that has an effect on the availability of females to marry and if it will lead to war. The leaders would never admit to having a war to thin out the ranks of young men, but that's what I believe it would come to.

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), January 26, 2002.

1 billion horny Chinamen heading our way.

-- (nemesis@awol.com), January 26, 2002.

Pat Buchanan/Al Sharpton in '04 almost sounds as ridiculous a ticket as Al Gore/Joseph Lieberman in '00.

-- Ralphie Naderr (make@me.rolph!), January 26, 2002.

Helen:

" folk rumor around here was that if you "whipped" the trees, they would produce more fruit. As a child forced to "whip" trees, I suspected this was merely a ploy to force us kids to expend energy, and to hell with the fruit production. Was I right? "

Helen, scientific evidence may exist for this contention, but I don't know about it. It is my observation that seriously wounded trees do produce more fruit. Of course, they generally become infected with fungi and die. I remember one peach tree [I have learned why no one grows peaches here ;o)] that I had. It took a beating one year with a late freeze; below zero when it started to break buds. The next year it was loaded. The following year it was daid. Your guess is as good as mine.

Best wishes,,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2002.

It's simplistic to merely identify Buchanan as "right wing". He does not share much common ground with mainstream Conservatives. He positions himself as a certain type of "populist". Left-leaning (and Jewish) Michael Kingsley says Buchanan is not antisemitic; Right-leaning Wm F Buckley says that he is antisemitic. IMO the most virulent anti-semitism these days is heard on the Left. (any Lefties in Israel's corner?)

Buchanan is anti-globalist (does that make him Right or Left?).

Buchanan ran for President on the same ticket with radical Marxist Lenora Fulani, lately of the New Alliance Party. (a cynical ploy for both of them).

Here is a pretty good link for anyone actually who gives a shit.

IMO

-- (lars@indy.net), January 26, 2002.

Lars:

I heard him speak here last year. He identified himself as "right wing". My opinion is that he is like Nader and the leaders of the Christian Conservatives. They have learned that there is a small part of the population that will give money to support their life styles. They milk it for all it is worth.

Of course, this is just my impression and may not be valid. ;o)

Best Wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), January 26, 2002.

Lars, Buchanan made a cynical alliance with the Marxist Fulani, but I believe he chose for his running mate another woman, black and believe it or not, a member of the John Birch Society.

-- Peter Errington (petere7@starpower.net), January 26, 2002.

Peter--

You are right. Originally Buchanan and Fulani together sought the Reform Party nomination for 2000. Fulani resigned from the Buchanan campaign with this letter. I think the Reform party went on to nominate someone other than Buchanan and then he ran as the candidate of yet another irtrelevant party. I don't know who his running mate was.

-- (lars@indy.net), January 26, 2002.