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This story was on the western Washington news, A family with 3 children,one is in high school. Father lost job and then Mother lost her job. Employment benefits ran out. Now they are living in their car. They talked with the family, he said he didn't want to take a mim. wage job to support the family. Didn't think it would bring enough money.

OK here's my question.....Do you think he's right to hold out for a high paying job? I couldn't believe they would rather live in a car, than take a low paying job. I say he should support his family, no matter what.

I still can't believe they put this story on the air.

I thought maybe there's something I'm missing and would run this by you. Thanks

-- Jo (farmerjo@kvalley.com), January 18, 2002

Answers

He and she may have had high-paying jobs, but obviously not "in demand" skills. That is sad that he thinks he's above minimum wage--what kind of lesson is he teaching his kids? If he has this attitude, there is a good chance he didn't even lift a finger to find work as long as he was getting benefits, and that, sad to say, is typical. There is ALWAYS work available for someone who WANTS to work. Would he get welfare if I were running the system? No.

If I were in that situation I'd be looking for family to live with and clean house/do yardwork (kids too) to help out and earn our room and board while looking for work.

There is no shame in any honest job, whatever the wage.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 18, 2002.


Any man who won't support his family so that they have to live in a car is no man! No job is beneath anyone...making an honest living, no matter what type of work, is something you can be proud of.

I have to agree with the above post, some great lesson there for the kids. Also, great way for social services to step in! I feel sorry for those poor kids. How can a man see his family living like that.

Also, is it me or is "some" money coming in better than having "no" money coming in...duh??? In my opinion...this guy is not only lazy but a jerk!

-- Karen (mountains_mama@hotmail.com), January 18, 2002.


I forgot to mention they did give their combined income as $52,000 and that area he is from is Kent, Wa near Seattle. Thanks you for your comments, I couldn't believe they would run a story like this.

-- Jo (farmerjo@kvalley.com), January 18, 2002.

I share this point of view for discussion only-I've worked at a number of low-paying jobs and after crunching numbers, Hubby and I decided we were almost money ahead if I stayed home after considering work expences, child care and so forth. However....We can do that because he has a decent job-although probably most Americans would consider IT "low-paying" and we have low debts and so on and so forth.

Before we were married, during the 80's recession, my husband and three "friends" moved to another city for a short time-one was on scholarship and working at school and so could pay his way. My husband landed a mim-wage job the day after he got there working second shift. yes, he had a college degree and great references, but so what??? So did lots of other folks out of work. He spent mornings looking for other work. Through someone he met on the MIM WAGE job he heard about a fairly well paying construction job. He went and got that job. The other two "friends" persisted in looking for "better" jobs-they had that attitude that it wasn't worth thier time messing around with mim-wage jobs. After a couple of months-the first "friend" kicked them out because they would sleep late, then spend a lot of time (and money) running around to "interviews" then come home and drink beer (on someone elses tab) and complain about the bad economy.

I feel for anyone who is out of work-husband and I have been through some dreadful times trying to make ends meet. We've lived in a mobile home that didn't seem much larger than a car!!! But if that was us, we'd be flippin hamburgers or whatever it takes.

-- Kelly (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 18, 2002.


The problem is, that even if he takes a minimum wage job, they will still be living in a car. I don't recall any affordable rentals for families living on minimum wage in western Washington.

Not knowing the full story, I'm not going to judge this guy. Is he a union member? If his family is in a car on the streets, who will watch over his family while he makes an unliving wage that only disqualifies him from receiving public assistance? You can't support a family with 3 children on minimum wage in the state of Washington, and you certainly are not going to come up with rent, 1st, last and deposit, utility deposits.

-- Laura (Ladybugwrangler@hotmail.com), January 18, 2002.



Laura-you bring up a great point-we don't know the whole story. And theres things I don't understand-What happened to thier house? Is it on the market, did the bank foreclose? I mean you don't go from 52,ooo to your car over night. To me, thats a whole lot of money- that would pay off my house and leave a tidy sum left over. They should drive that car to Kentucky where living is cheap!!!!!

-- Kelly (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 18, 2002.

I don't know the whole situation either, but isn't there anywhere they could live if they both worked minimum wage jobs? Maybe alternating shifts? That would be over $400 a week. Most Human Service departments will help with deposits. Also are there low income housing situations available anywhere. My Mom is the manager for an apartment complex, and some people only pay $30-40 a month if they are low income and have children. Around here you can rent a trailer for $200-$300 a month.

I realize that many people would not want this on a permanent basis, but for short term it would be acceptable. Maybe Washington is different than Ohio?

I agree that this situation did not occur overnight. If he made $52,000 and then received unemployment benefits, he surely had time to figure out what he was going to do when they ran out??? In Ohio, you can receive a maximum of about $400 a week, for 6 months, on unemployment.

Sounds like they just did not plan very carefully. We made less than $18,000 last year, and I still have enough money put back to pay the bills for many months even without unemployment benefits.

Once again the children suffer in situations like this,and most likely the marriage as well.

-- Melissa (me@home.net), January 18, 2002.


I realize we don't know the whole story, but I would think that even a minimum wage job would buy food, if not shelter.

I have a friend who is a single stay-at-home mom and scrapes by on child support from her ex and what her dad can help her out with. She thinks it is more important to be there for her kids, but I still think she could get a part-time job at minimum wage and still be there before and after school. I just couldn't live that way. Thank God I don't have to make that choice.

-- Christine in OK (cljford@mmcable.com), January 18, 2002.


I suppose I'm making an assumption, but if one child was in high school, I would suppose the others would be at least school aged, couldn't the Mother work while kids were in school? Besides, what in the world are these people doing all day? Sitting in the car? If theres no income, what are they eating? More and more questions.....

-- Kelly (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 18, 2002.

Here is what I have seen: Couple with two good incomes buy the biggest house they can with mortgage based on two incomes. Job or jobs are lost and house cannot be afforded without two full time well- paying jobs. Money is also tied up in health club memberships and kid's expensive activities. They slowly give up things but refuse to give up the house because they would rather die than have their friends visit them in a lower income neighborhood apartment and god- fobid the kids share a room. They consider it being frugal to forgo the weekly 100$ manicures and 5$/day starbucks and the $5,000 vacation. By the time they cannot pay for groceries they must declare bankruptcy because there isn't enough time to sell the house (forget making a profit when markets are down)

Here's an alternative. Don't buy the most the bank TELLs you you can afford. The bank isn't going to get you out of trouble later. Have at least two months living expenses in the bank that won't be touched. During those two months take any and all jobs you can--it may take two to three jobs to cobble together enough to live. Sell the expensive SUV's ASAP. Get rid of second car and carpool or use public transportation if possible (save on insurance and gas too). During the two months DRASTICALLY cut spending: cable, newspaper, turn down the thermostat, start eating pasta and rice EVERY day.

A bankruptcy haunts you for a long time. I know that for some it's the only way, but it doesn't have to be for everyone.

-- Ann Markson (tngreenacres@hotmail.com), January 18, 2002.



Absolutly, Ann. I agree. We moved into our house before it was completely finished-the bank and others said "Hey, Lets give you a home improvement loan, we said"No way! we can live quite nicely without the kitchen cabinets, thanks,"

Once I pulled into a drive through window at the bank and I was behind a NEW SHINEY RED SPORTS CAR I was driving my good old twenty year old station wagon and I admit, that new car looked pretty good. It was a warm day, I had the windows down, and then I heard the teller's voice drifting through the drive through-"I'm terrably sorry sir, but your account is overdrawn" Then my cluncker car, and my bank account looked pretty good.

I don't want to come off sounding holier than thou-I have certainly been through some rough times, and I know that sometimes you get in a bad situation and its not your fault. But, I also know that with some careful choices you can avoid a lot of misery.

-- Kelly (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 18, 2002.


A true story:

In April, 1991, we were given the option of signing a six-month lease or moving out. We were planning to move in August, so that ultimatum kind of put us in a quandry. My husband was janitor/maintainance man at our church's Christian school, so we had to a least finish out the school year before moving. We ended up storing our stuff in a storage rental place near our intended destination in Ohio (we were living in Georgia at the time) and moving into a suite of rooms at the school. We needed to save some cash for the final move, as Tom did not have a job waiting for him yet in Ohio. (There were other reasons for the move.)

During the summer, Tom was able to keep his job at the school since they were doing some remodeling, but that one job did not pay enough (we had the two older boys, ages 3 and 18 months, and I was SICK with a third child on the way). Tom worked minimum wage part-time at Chick-Fil-A, and part-time doing carpentry/remodeling at his manager's house. We lived this way for four months, then moved to Ohio--almost.

We got to Ohio at the end of August (by this time I was thankfully feeling better) and started the house/job hunt in an area with a high unemployment rate. People thought we were nuts, but we knew this was where God wanted us at the time. We were able to stay at a family camp in Pennsylvania (where I had gone to church camp as a kid) until Tom found housing in Ohio. Tom commuted almost every day; some nights he stayed over in Ohio. He was able to get another part-time job right away at another Chick-Fil-A, on the recommendation of his manager in Georgia. It was October before Tom found a full-time job and a small (and I do mean teeny-tiny small) apartment. The new job paid more than the old full-time and two part-time jobs combined, and had more flexible hours.

I hope this story encourages any one else in similar situations. It can be done, but you have to make sacrifices. We had been used to living on a "shoestring"; I think this would be harder for people used to a higher income. But it's worth it, with the whole family pulling together for the common good. We have had some tough times, but we settled before we got married that I would not work outside the home once we had children. I have tried various "work-from-home" ideas, but they all took too much of my time, since we homeschool. Our marriage has never suffered, because we wouldn't let it. You have to be committed 100% to each other and to God to make this work.

-- Cathy N. (keeper8@attcanada.ca), January 18, 2002.


It is so hard to tell from stories in the newspaper what is really going on. But, I cannot imagine any husband letting his family live in a car. Minimum wage isn't enough? Well, then work two minimum wage jobs. Clearly, they need better money handling skills. When me and my husband bought our first house, we had already found one we thought we could afford. Then we went to the realtor where the house was listed. First, of course, he asked what our yearly income was. Then he told us that we probably couldn't afford to buy a house on that income, or maybe we could with special financing. His jaw dropped when we told him we could pay cash for the house. Most people making way more than we do, can't even save enough to put 10% or 20% down on a house. Have you noticed minimum down payments are dropping to as little as 2%.

Of course, I don't know the local economy in Washington state, but every once in awhile there are adds for good used mobile homes to give away in our local paper.

I know unfortunate situations arise, but sitting around whining to newspaper reporters won't help the situation.

-- vicki in NW OH (thga76@aol.com), January 18, 2002.


Laura, there are plenty of cheap places to live in WA state, not Seattle necessarily, but they could move elsewhere. Also, most lower rent places there get first month and security, not last month (that seems to be more common for higher rent places). There are even cheap places to live in CA, if you look. They could also go back and live with parents (who in all honesty could probably use the help). Again, don't tell me they don't have relatives SOMEWHERE. And if their relatives (who know them and at least love the kids if not the parents) won't help them, why should we as taxpayers?

They could rent 1 room for probably $100-200 a month, and it would be better than living in the car. So they have to share, too bad, so sad, etc. What about all the immigrants who lived 20-30 to a house for years to save for their American dream?

I don't mind helping people who are trying to get out of a bad situation by doing the right thing, but I'm not happy about wasting money on a whiner. And the Mom can work too while the kids are in school, let's not be chauvinistic about this issue.

Even with 7% unemployment in WA, if you WANT to work, you will find work, it is just that simple.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 18, 2002.


Laura, I didn't mean you when saying "don't tell me they don't have relatives, etc." I meant that in a general sense, as in most people have relatives somewhere. If I had written that story that would have been like my first or second question after hearing their sad tale of woe.

They may not like where the relatives live, but that's not the issue. I also think a lot of relatives would rather help out by taking in the kids or all of them rather than endure the shame of having a relative on welfare. But then again, maybe not--entitlement seems to be the "in" thing these days. Didn't mean to offend you, Laura.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 18, 2002.



The cost of living in Western WA is unreal. There are rules that say you can't rent a 1 bedroom apartment to more than 2 adults and if the children are different sexes and over the age of five or six they won't let them share a room. I found this problem when I got divorced and tried to find a place to live with 2 kids. I couldn't get a one bedroom place and they tried to talk me into a 3 bedroom (ran $700+ per month 6 years ago). I am not saying they shouldn't figure it out but WA state sure stacks the odds against you when are low income. Also, if they don't have an address most minimum wage places wouldn't give them a job either. Amy

-- Amy Richards (amysgarden2@earthlink.net), January 18, 2002.

Gee Amy, where were you renting? I know in Centralia and in parts of southwest WA (through friends) that rents aren't that high--depends on location of property, how nice it is and so forth, of course. I have seen subsidized low income apartments that are nicer (carpeting, cable, etc.) than a lot of houses people own. That to me is bizarre.

Some friends who are landlords say the main concern with too many people--related or not, adults or not--in too small a place is that the wear and tear is unreal. If you own the property it's a different matter entirely, you live with bad carpet, dings on the walls and so forth until you get enough money and get around to fixing it, but you can't as a landlord rent out property with the same defects, and every time you take it off the market to fix it, you lose money.

Also, rents, and other prices are relative. I don't travel a whole lot, but depending on where you live, $700 a month is a house payment, or say in San Francisco or New York, that isn't even rent on a studio apartment. Some people, such as in the original posted situation, for some reason can't look at themselves in the mirror and honestly say "I can't afford to live here any longer", which just makes the problem worse. Everything is relative.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 19, 2002.


Hi, Jo, several people have commented about conclusions reached from the news report. There's usually more behind the story that the reporter tells. (Even at that, it does make one squint.) It reminded me of an article I wrote for the Morrock News Digest called randal@onebox.com), January 19, 2002.

There's always "more to the story". I would take the minimum wage job too. Have the wife and kids deliver newspapers. Carry groceries to people's cars. People are so easily taken into debt...even if you don't intend too. I remember ( guess I'm really getting old when I start a story like this !) when we first got married. The women's salary was not taken into consideration at all because the banks thought you would just be leaving to have families and when you became pregnant you had to leave your job...!!!! The old days sometimes weren't that good to women and this was in the 60's !! But...we have always bought a house with a payment equal or less to my husbands one weeek take home pay. This way we always figured we could somehow make the payments. First house mortgage was $48 dollars a months and take home pay was $52 a week...we were living then !! With a 40 hour a week job !! Society has brainwashed all into having it all now by going into debt. Even the ones that aren't in debt are finding it difficult to make ends meet. Where will it all end...just glad that I can still milk a few goats and gather a couple eggs for my breakfast.

-- Helena (windyacs@npacc.net), January 20, 2002.

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