need help in identifying a tree

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While clearing off the side of the hill today, I noticed some small tree with thorns on them. There were also some larger ones, about 15 to 20 feet, that had even larger thorns. I live in southeast Tenn. if that makes any difference. Any ideas?

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), January 10, 2002

Answers

They are probably locust trees.

-- sawmillman (tfloy@lexcominc.net), January 10, 2002.

Osage orange trees (hedgeapple) have thorns, but it is not the only one that does. Osage orange trees are not very large, though, so they would match the "small" part of your description. Do you remember if they dropped large greenish fruits last fall?

-- Debbie in Mo (risingwind@socket.net), January 10, 2002.

I agree that they could be locusts or osage orange. Sometimes hawthornes may pop up too. Can you describe the bark and shape? I'm in Dunlap - where are you?

-- Georg in TN (dgkotarski@bledsoe.net), January 10, 2002.

If the thorns on the really large trees are up to 3 to four inches and are clustered on the trunk you probably have honey locus. Interesting trees, make pretty turned objects, but will tear up tractor tires like nothing else I know of.

-- David (bluewaterfarm@mindspring.com), January 10, 2002.

If the thorns are small and shaped more like a raspberry thorn I would think they would be hawthorne. We also have a tree with very long thorns shaped more like a needle which also has little fruit on it like a mini crab apple, and a wild plum that also has thorns.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), January 10, 2002.


I have the same trees on my homestead.David's description hits the nail on the head.David, is honey locust the true name?

-- David R In TN. (srimmer@earthlink.net), January 11, 2002.

Honey Locust trees don't have thorns that's one of the reasons they are planted in landscapes. Black Locust trees are the ones with thorns.

-- Paul (treewizard@buffalo.com), January 11, 2002.

Sorry, Paul...you've got it backwards. It's the Honey Locust with the thorns, nasty ones sometimes, like a bunch of bayonettes growing out at an angle from the branch - 2-3 inches long sometimes. Use to be planted close together along fencerows to keep livestock in. Get stuck by one of these and they hurt for a week. I learned the hard way. In winter they form long (1-2 feet) seed pods that have brown beens inside that rattle when you shake them. Used to be used by natives to make a type of tea that had a honey flavour in them - hence the name. They also used the needles for sewing. The leaves are look a bit like a walnut's leaf.

Russ

-- (russw@sprint.ca), January 11, 2002.


Thanks y'all for all the really great responses. Am going to look closer today at the bark and needles and using your information, try to identify this tree. (If I can't, I'll be back!) Hey Georg, we live in southeast Tenn., Sevier Co., right in the Smokies. What part of the state are you in?

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), January 11, 2002.

I agree with the varieties that it could be (except black locust-they DON'T have thorns). Osage orage have an orange looking bark, looks easy to climb (but don't try it). Locust trees have grey looking bark, very straight and attractive. Good thorns, except black locust. I live in Kansas where we call Osage Orange "hedge". Our hedge tree's still have the green balls under them. It's real funny becasuse when the squirrels run out of nuts, you can see them out tossingg the stuff off of the hedge apples to get to the seeds inside.

-- Marty in KS (Mrs.Puck@Excite.com), January 11, 2002.


According to The Peterson Field Guide to Eastern Trees...

Honey Locust have branched thorns several inches long. There is a cultivated thornless variety being widely planted in landscapes. The range for the wild variety stops before getting to the Smokies but that is highly variable.

Black locust do have thorns 1/2" - 1" long. (From my personal experience, they are more noticable on younger trees. In mature trees , the thorns are up in the branches and not on the main trunk.) The mature height for both locusts is 70' - 80'.

Your area is not in the range for Osage Orange but again that can be highly variable.

Hawthornes are more like a tall shrub forming thickets or a small tree. They also have long thorns. The fruits are small, yellow to red, and applelike. They remain on the tree all winter making it a good tree for a food supply for wildlife.

Native crabapples, plums, and wild apples can all have thorns. These are more in the height range you mentioned.

Your library should have a copy of this book. It's a good one just to thumb through occasionally.

(Annie, I was just in Sevier Co. My sister was driving from GA to IN so we drove over there and met her at exit 407 off of I-40. Small world...)

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), January 11, 2002.


Possibles: Devils walking stick. Locust. Hawthorn (of the rose family with many subvarieties- most have white 5 pedaled flowers in spring). Osage orange. Any fruits>? My guess, by size alone- Hawthorns.

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), January 11, 2002.

Green locust has thorns too, it has a green ring inside when cut, .......[I just didn't want to feel left out]

-- Thumper (slrldr@yahoo.com), January 11, 2002.

Checked out the trees today and didn't notice any seed pods on them and have never noticed these trees flowering before. They have thorns on the bark and on the branches too. There starting to incroach on the lawn, so we'll be cutting them down....carefully! Bren, wished I would have known you were in my area, we could have met and had a cup of coffee. It is a small world. Thanks again everyone for the great advice.

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), January 11, 2002.

Annie - We're in the Sequatchie Valley, NW of Chattanooga. OSage oranges grow here as well as honey locust, black locust and hawthornes.

-- Georg in TN (dgkotarski@bledsoe.net), January 12, 2002.


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