At wit's end (Head Lice) (Health)

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread

The good news is the chickens I bought are laying and love my 83 cent black buckets for nesting boxes. The bad news is that after mayonaise and lavender oil treatments, my daughter still has head lice. She had gotten it from my nephew who was still infested after NIX and mayo treatments. Our houses have been bombed with Zodiac, all laundry, blankets, and everything washed in hot water in both houses. Is there a new strain of lice going around that is immune to everything?! To top that off, we have a three day flu that keeps nothing in our systems, fever, and aches to beat the band. We are loaded up with vitamins, colloidal silver, garlic and teas. We seem to be getting over it quicker than others, but it is hard to get over it when it gets passed around from the kids I babysit to mine and back again. The woman I sit for says she would send them somewhere else, but she has no one else to watch them. Time for two weeks notice, she'll have to find someone else. She knows we are fighting lice and flu, yet drops her kids off anyways.

So anyone have any lice treatments not in the archives? Any help would be immensly appreciated!

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002

Answers

Response to At wit's end

Sorry no help here , but boy do I feel for you .Hope you all get better soon.~ Patty

-- Patty {NY State} (fodfarms@hotmail.com), January 07, 2002.

Response to At wit's end

We had the same problem with our daughter. No Matter what we did, we couldn't get rid of the lice. It would appear that we had gotten rid of it, just to be found again a couple of days latter. I went as far as to take EVERYTHING to the laundrymat and wash it in hot water. Finally I called her peditrician. It seems that there is a type of lice going around called resistant lice. They presribed a cream (not a shampoo)- we used it only once and haven't had any problems since. I would call the peditrician. Wish I had sooner. Good luck!!! Lisa B.

-- Lisa B. (J5diecast@aol.com), January 07, 2002.

Response to At wit's end

Can't help with the lice problem but you might try spraying Lysol throughout the house to kill the flu bugs. We had the same problems you're talking about one year and DH finally said this is it! Sprayed the house thorougly and it seemed to work.

-- Anna in Iowa (countryanna54@hotmail.com), January 07, 2002.

Response to At wit's end

Epona, If you can't get your daughter over it why not take her to the doctor for a prescription treatment that will work?

As for the lady you babysit for, jobs are scarce nowdays. If she has no where else to leave them she has to take the chance. Kids get over flu and lice but don't get over not being fed, clothed and roof over head. You made the commitment to watch the kids, she pays you (or so I am assuming) she held up her side of the bargain.

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.


Response to At wit's end

The only thing I can find is in the 'Little Herb Encyclopedia.' It mentions using hyssop externally and thyme against lice. Duke's 'Handbook of Medicinal Herbs' lists several (24) herbs with reported anti-lice properties but from reading some of the entries I'd be very leary about using any of them on children.

Probably the best thing to do is cut the kids hair very short and throughly use a nit comb to remove the egg masses. It's going to take a very determined effort on your part.

The other factor to be aware of is that organophosphates found in Rid and other poisons have been theorized as being the original cause of mad cow in Britain. That's not widely accepted. To be safe I wouldn't use any insecticide containing organophosphate. I believe organophosphates wrere originally used for nerve gases.

-- Darren (df1@infi.net), January 07, 2002.



Response to At wit's end

when you de-lice, everyone has to do their entire households at the same time. that means you, your nephew, everyone who visits his home, every where he visits, the babysitter and everywhere she visits, all she works with, etc. takes time and trouble to set up and must be followed thru. it is the only way to make it work.

-- carol (kanogisdi@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.

Response to At wit's end

Sooner or later, after you're fed up with all the mambie-bambie herbal recipes, try this sure cure. Soak the hair with a 50:50 mixture of vinegar and kerosene. Keep this solution in the hair for 12 to 24 hours (wear a shower cap). The vinegar loosens the eggs and nits and the kersosene kills them. After the treatment, comb hair with a fine-toothed comb. Then wash hair with shampoo. Repeat this treatment 2 or 3 times in a week. --Happy trails, Cabin Fever

-- Cabin Fever (cabinfever_mn@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.

Response to At wit's end

I think to much of any child to use terrible chemicals on them----- I guarantee you IF YOU USE THE MAYO WITH A PLASTIC BAG ON THEIR HAIR & COVER IT & SET THEM UNDER A HAIRDRYER----& THEN COMB THE NITS OUT & DO IT MORE THAN ONCE IT WILL WORK!!!!!!!! IT HAS FOR 30 PLUS YEARS & STILL IS WORKING TODAY!!!!!!! I have helped sooooo many school nurses & parents I can no longier count how many I have helped--- If it doesn't work it is because the child is getting reinfected --or you didn't get rid of all the nits when you combed through the hair--- getting rid of lice is not for sissys-----but it is not an excuse to use terrible chemicals on a child either---

There is no way I would use those chemicals on any child!!!!!!!! I have no immunre system because of chemicals that were used on me & I later worked with-

I guarantee if you kill them from the other sources so they are not getting back into the hair from other sources---if you use the mayo--- -use a plastic cap or clear plastic wrap on the hair & get it warm & comb it good it will work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And yes you may have to do it more than once!!!! Maybe more than twice!!!! Did you use heat with the mayo--?????? Did you comb out all thre nits????? Did you wash everything else in very hot water?????? There is a source that is reinfecting her!!!!! You need to find the source-- ---or get rid ot them by doing a really good job /& it may take more than oce --twice or three times with heat & mayo-----but it is a million times better than hurting your child with chemicals!!!!

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), January 07, 2002.


Response to At wit's end

Did you wash the stuffed toys?

-- Fran Smith (Frugal@ mexico.com), January 07, 2002.

Response to At wit's end

I also forgot to say for the bugs other than lice being passed around- ----keep vinegar----in a spray bottle & spray all surfaces with it on a regular basis-(everywhere in your house)---it will kill germs--- & not hurt anyone with chemicals----& every one wash their hands so often you need to keep lotion next to the sink to help with their dry hands from washing them soooo often---- also rinse everyone's hair with a vinegar rinse---1/3 vinegar 2/3's warm water----can be used every time you wash their hair--- if you have any more questions about how to get lice out of hair --e- mail me i'll be glad to help you--- There have been a few thousand that I have worked with their parents-- when I have had some one say /mayo & heat & vinegar rinse doesn't work for removeing lice --either they have misunderstood exactly how to do it--or they are getting reinfected!!!

-- Sonda (sgbruce@birch.net), January 07, 2002.


Response to At wit's end

We had the same problem about 2 years ago. My daughter was just demoralized because we couldn't get rid of the lice. We homeschool so we were able to narrow down where we were getting it from. That family kept coming to visit and we kept getting re-infected. I gave the boys buzz cuts and made my daughter keep her hair up in some kind of twisted pony tail. We had to shampoo everyday and use the nit combs EVERY day. The mayo thing worked wonderfully -- until the other family would visit. I washed and washed and overdried every stitch of linen in the dryer. I spoke to the other family and they denied it vehemently.... even tho we were able to find live lice on her daughter..... Remember to treat the seats of your car.....and the couches and comfy chairs and the rugs where the kids lay in front of the TV.... I finally bought a memeber ship at the local indoor pool for both families for the winter...... they swam almost daily and our lice problem vanished. You have my complete sympathy!!!

-- Tana McCarter (mcfarm@totelcsi.net), January 07, 2002.

Response to At wit's end

Epona, I am pretty sure that lice cannot get resistant to mayonaisse because its not the chemistry of mayo that kills them its the fact that the smother. We have had a family in our nursery school that had lice they couldn't get rid of. Turns out the father wasn't treated and he kept reinfesting everyone. Anyway, double bag all the soft things that can harbor lice that you don't need for awhile for about two weeks and then repeat your oil treatments or mayo treatments and nit combing every 3 days for that 2 weeks as well as vacuuming and washing all beds and furniture etc like you have been. Gotta do everyone and remember to vacuum everywhere that heads could have touched. I feel for you!! The mother in the family here was just about crazed by the time they finally beat the lice. It took well over a month in the end because of getting reinfested. Take heart and be strong, Epona.

-- Alison in NS (aproteau@istar.ca), January 07, 2002.

Response to At wit's end

For the flu bug & any other germs getting passed around, put a tablespoon of bleach in the wash or rinse water for dishes. Also wash down tables & counters with a bleach solution. If any bedding is shared wash it in hot water & bleach. That will at least slow down the germs. Good luck.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), January 07, 2002.

Response to At wit's end

I agree with Soda. Do not use terrible chemicals on our children. The suggested use of mayo (I prefer Hellmans...not Miracle Whip!) or the natural, organic compound made by Mother Earth herself--kerosene--will work. (kerosene,btw, is a natural derivative of decomposed plant matter that is formed under intense heat and pressure within the bowels of our loving Mother Earth. Man simply extracts this elixer from Her through a process known as heat distillation) Stop the use of terrible chemicals! Save the children! --Happy trails, Cabin Fever

-- Cabin Fever (cabinfever_mn@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.

Response to At wit's end

Did you remember to do the car, the winter jackets and hats? A simple head washing when it is over and blowdrying for everyone, each time they wash their hair will keep it gone also. My husband never got lice when the kids were plagued with it, we came up with the conclusion that it was from the heat of the blowdryer every morning, and that he keeps his hair navy short. After you are sick to death of this and the herbal cures go get RID from Wallmart, and surely they have other treatments by now. It was so bad around here that I wouldn't let anybody ride in my truck or the kids ride the school bus, and certainly nobody came into my house (travel trailer while we were building our house) unless I checked their heads. I was not sympathetic at all to the plight of others, I was living without electricity dealing with this, I would call their Mom's and tell them your kids have lice! The Rid worked for us, worked really well as a spray, and got it overwith in the neighborhood! Now start thinking about the pinworms your kids get from spending the night or naping with other folks kids :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), January 07, 2002.


Response to At wit's end

Epona, You have gotten so much good advice. It does sound like your daughter is getting reinfected by someone. When I drove the school bus in Tennessee, all the drivers wore hats to cut down on the problem of lice(they do jump off one head to another one near by) Kerosene is the old time fix for lice, I used Kwell cause that was what the doctor prescribed back them, there are new less toxic meds out now. The virus(flu) is something I do know about. A 10% bleach solution will kill a virus. You need to wipe down every flat surface with it and in the rinse water for dishes. The other standard is to cover your mouth when you cough(that means everyone), it is spread by airborne water droplets(I'm a lab tech). Also hand washing will do amazing things to stop it. So get the kids to wash their hands every chance you can get them to do it. Sure hope you are all feeling better soon. karen

-- Karen in Kansas (kansasgoats@iwon.com), January 07, 2002.

Epona, please DON'T use kerosene, a lighted match and instant tragedy! If you look in the other lice threads, there is a link to the national lice website, and they recommend combing as the best way, and check every day. Also they said that lice cannot survive without human hosts.

I will try to find the link and post it here for you.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 07, 2002.


Here is the link:

http://www.headlice.org/

They have a lot of useful information.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 07, 2002.


GT, Yes kerosene is flammable, but it is no more flammable (ie, volatile) than rubbing alcohol...sheesh!

-- Cabin Fever (cabinfever_mn@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.

Cabin Fever, I was just trying to point out the dangers of using a flammable substance on a child's head, near their eyes and face. As Karen pointed out, there are a lot less toxic ways (and non-flammable) to get the beasties. You don't even have to bug-bomb the house anymore. Lice don't survive on "stuff", they survive on people.

I'd hate to have to read about a kerosene accident, not only because of the pain the child would feel, but also because the parents could be charged with negligence and sent to jail. Two tragedies that could well be avoided with proper information.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 07, 2002.


Well you could always shave her head.... :) Works for boys! I might be wrong, but won't a coating of any oil, like olive oil, smother the lice? My boys never got lice fortunately, but every time the school sent home notices of lice outbreaks, I shaved their heads.

-- CJ (cjtinkle@getgoin.net), January 07, 2002.

My step-daughter got a case of head lice a few years ago and we couldn't get the prescription stuff to work. What we ended up doing was covering her head with Olive Oil, putting a shower cap on her and letting it set overnight will she was sleeping. Washed all the clothing, jackets, chairs ect the next day. Took a few hot showers to get rid of the oil but never had a problem with the lice or eggs after that. Don't know if another kind of vegetable oil will work as well or not.

This method was a whole like cheaper and in my opinion better than the prescription shampoo. Friendlier to my step-daughter and the environment as well.

-- Randy Dyess (randy_dyess@hotmail.com), January 07, 2002.


Well, I think part of my problem was not using the combs often enough and that a riding helmet was shared on a daily basis with the girl I babysit for. We all had small nits and transparent lice that was not seen with normal headchecking, only noticed it when using the combs on those of us we thought weren't infected. The girl I babysit for had one huge one that I could see the legs waving back at us. I didn't search anymore, I tied her hair up and went to town on all our heads. I had a mix of olive, lavender, and tea tree on hand, soaked our heads in it, covered in saran wrap for at least one hour and then combed endlessly. I bought regular mayo and will try that next, but the smell makes me nauseaous. As for RID, etc, my sister used it and it did nothing for my nephew. I also don't believe the chemicals are anything I want to expose my kids to. I visited the lice org website as well and will continue to comb every other day at least. Stuffed toys, bedclothes, couch, rugs, etc are taken care of.

I had gotten to bed at three am after staying up with a sick child, woke at 6:30 to receive children whom I watch as a favor and care for sick hubby, fed and hauled water buckets for 6 horses, fed the dog, cats, chickens, rabbits and kids while my oldest kept an eye on the little ones. Discovered the lice problem, Treated and combed 7 heads while cooking, doing laundry, changing two sets of diariah soaked diapers, cleaning messes, answering phone calls, calling for a rainbow vac from my mother, and telling a parent they would have to watch their own kids for the next few days after calling the school and warning them that one of their students has lice. I went to the store to return a movie. Then I cooked supper, fed, hauled water and let in all above mentioned animals, combed more hair and relayed phone calls for my hubby who was home sick from work during a very important time at his job. It's almost bedtime-phew!

Considering the woman I agreed to babysit for has on a regular basis neglected to tell me her kids have been sick until after we are all throwing up, I have no feeling of obligation to continue babysitting for her. Her youngest comes here every other week with green snot constantly coming from his nose and says it's just asthma, until my youngest's nose starts running green, I treat her with peppers and tomatoe juice and she clears up. Her kids were exposed to lice by sleeping over their cousin's house and she never told me or treated her kids, just dropped them off and I had to hear it from her daughter. When I asked, she said she'd check, but failed to do so until I mentioned it the next day at drop-off time, so she did a brief check in my mudroom. At least I gave her warning that my nephew had visited with lice and given it to my daughter, she said she didn't care and dropped her kids off anyways. I agreed to babysit kids, not play nurse to her 3 kids and conductor for every comunicable disease or infestation a kid can bring home. It is utterly irresponsible and disrespectful to her own kids, me, my kids, my hubby(the only one working outside the home) who is stuck home vomiting at such an important time of the fiscal year(he's the company controller, accountant, payroll, computer expert, etc). Both she and her husband together earn more than we do and can afford to take three days off to care for their children's illnesses. There's no threat of her kids not eating or having a roof over their head, while theirs a real threat of my hospitalization from fatigue and no immune system left. Any daycare provider has a contract that says kids are not to be dropped off if runny noses, fever or vomiting have occured in the past 24 hours. My sister gets calls to pick up her kids if they get sick at daycare. I've had to put my kids in daycare and run across the same agreements. The idea that I should tolerate it and consider it as part of the agreement I made is absolutely ludicrous! She'll have to stay home at some point because my immune system can't keep up with all the diseases her kids bring here so I get laid up vomiting as well, as I was all this past weekend thanks to her dropping a sick kid off last week. She is so negligent that when her son had his eye poked by a pen launched from a slingshot, she covered it, sent him to me, I noticed it was damaged, sent him home, she sent him to school the next day only to get a call from the school to bring her kid to the emergency room immediately. He was rushed into emergency surgery and almost lost his sight. He can't see well out of it due to the infection that set in due to not promptly treating it, but at least he can see. She has good health insurance from hers and her husband's place of employment, so cost was not her concern. Sorry to go on so, but the reply saying it's part of my agreement ticked me off. I've been struggling with this decision until I'm physically sick over it because our daughters are best friends, but I can no longer live with the constant illness and destruction to my home. As for pay I receive: $50 for a full week and she decides to pay me $40 if it's only a three day week, yet I have all three of her kids all day instead of one all day and two after school. I've even agreed to sleep overs when she works double shifts and got paid no more for it. Her husband tells her to pay me the full amount, but she says, no. I've been patient and really didn't mind, but vomiting all weekend to barely getting better and having to deal with her indifference to recurring headlice and the flu she'd be sending back here is too much. There's a difference between agreeing to help someone in-between daycares and being party to irresponsible and neglectful behavior towards her children and mine.

So, hopefully by confining the problem and diligently combing and washing, we'll get it under control. Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll probably check back if it's not going away, but I think with all the good advice and isolation we should have it under control in no time! Thanks again! Epona

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.


Here is what we did for lice. We had it for a year and couldn't shake it. Tried all the shampoos, prescriptions, and home remedies. I was going to shave their long hair off. We finally (carefully)used rubbing alcohol (no, not very flamable but I bet alot of those shampoos are)and of course went through every day with a comb. Saturate the hair and put on a shower cap for a half hour. Let air dry. Don't rinse. Re-do in 3-4 days. Kills 'em dead.

-- Kathleen (krob777@msn.com), January 07, 2002.

Epona, I don't blame you a bit (yet another instance of why I don't like to be beholden to anyone, but I digress)! Totally irresponsible on her part, and if you lose her as a friend, well, she was no friend. Friends don't do that. She should be truly ashamed of taking advantage of your good nature.

I thought about daycare for a time but the truly abysmal pay and the lack of respect from parents (who should know better!) changed my mind in a hurry.

To more or less quote Ann Landers, "you can only be taken advantage of if you allow yourself to be". Glad to see you're standing up to her!

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 07, 2002.


Tea tree oil. Use about 20 drops in a 2 liter plastic coke/pepsi bottle full of water. Rinse hair 3x per day until the lice are gone.

-- Connie (Ragamuffintears@aol.com), January 07, 2002.

I wouldn't blame you either Epona. $50 a week to be responsible for 3 kids of a parent like that? $50 a week for all 3 or $50/each? Did I read that right??

I'd give anything to find childcare that cheap here. It'd make a world of difference for me. The cheapest around here is $120 per week per child. Overnights, $40 per child. Afterschool from 3-6pm, $70/week per child. Those prices apply whether it's a daycare franchise or a private individual in their home. When school is out, it's about $1000 per month for 2 kids. School is 3 months on/1 month off here year round.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 07, 2002.


And Dave, even what you quoted for your area (if I did my math correctly), isn't even minimum wage....

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 07, 2002.

my wife and her friend have a system for getting rid of head lice,they created it because of the awful results they got from store bought over the counter "junk" that never works. it took them a while but they hit it right. one time treatment that removes the nitts or eggs and kills all the lice, even has a spray to treat beds and household stuff. they are going to market their all natural home cure system,do you think that they will have a market for this product...it works for real i have seen it with my own eyes, we went crazy for weeks with our daughters spending big bucks$$ for nothing and the girls passed the school's no nitt policy with one treatment

-- paul (pacole@statecom.net), January 07, 2002.

Thanks Sondra, I used those awful chemicals on my kids years ago and now I'm waiting for the boom to fall. I wish I had known more 20 years ago. I sure got rid of the lice, but I pray my children and grandchildren et al don't end up paying for my ignorance. Susan in Michigan

-- Susan in Northern Michigan (cobwoman@yahoo.com), January 08, 2002.

Nothing living came out after the three oil treatment. Combed heads before bed again to be sure. Never had softer hair and my youngest's craddle cap that never went away is gone:) Midnight and my pillow is the last to be going through the dryer so I will soon be able to rest my weary head. Kathleen: did the rubbing alcohol dry the scalp and hair? My middle daughter has long, fine hair that tangles extraordinarily if even slightly dry. Dave: Clarification on pay- I babysit her youngest, two years old, from 7am until whenever they pick up(anytime between 2 and 7, unnanounced so I cannot make any plans during those hours ever). The older two go to school so they catch the bus from my house at 7:20am and get off at my house around 3:20. It's $50 per week for all of it. I had all three for three days of Christmas vacation, she gave me $40. Same thing happened for Thanksgiving vacation. I had agreed to the $50 per week terms on a temporary basis because her normal sitter ran off with a boyfriend out of state without notice and her husband was layed off(he's a good guy who tells her to pay me the $50 even if it is a short week, according to her own mouth she won't let him pay me the full amount so that's why she pays me-there was a shocker that came out last Friday!) She still hadn't found another daycare, but her husband found a new job where my hubby works(that's how I know how much he gets paid and the company does work where she works so I know what her income is). I know it's way below going rates, but I had nothing better to do then and was doing her a favor. I homeschool and do babysit occassionally for extra money. She decided she liked the terms too much to find a real daycare and has been pushing things further(give an inch, some will take a mile, no?). I have been wanting to give her notice for quite some time now, but I hate to upset people and didn't think I had a good enough excuse. These past few days just drove it all home. It's dissapointing because I love to help others out. Hard not to get cynicle when a favor turns foul.

Thanks for the support. I'll keep ya all up to date with the progress (thinking positive). Hopefully I'll be able to report being lice-free from here on out. Blessings, Epona

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), January 08, 2002.


Thie works, for real!!!! One cheap bottle of dollar store hair gel and a shower cap and dawn soap. Gel hair completely, cap and sleep on it. Wash with dawn in the morning. It works great, repeat for the whole family in one or two weeks.

Your gonna love the results! PS Clean your house too!

-- julie britt (jbritt@ceva.net), January 08, 2002.


House is clean! :) I lifted and moved every piece of furniature, tore up every rug(hubby not happy, but he DID say he wanted to do some remodeling indoors this winter:). Borrowed the super-duper rainbow vac, which sucked up much more even after I vaccumed with my dirt devil. Still combing with those lice combs. Tea tree, Lavender, and olive oil mixture killed what was on our heads. I haven't seen a single live bug so far. Every stitch of clothing and bedding washed in hot and dried hot. Stuffed animals in bags to sit for a month or so or thrown in trash. Phew! 3 bedrooms, kitchen, livingroom and full sized basement/toyroom totally ransacked! The woman called to see if she can drop her daughter off after just treating her daughter and daughter's room? NO! She never thought of doing her own livingroom or any other bedrooms. Daughter went to school today. Sheesh, I forsee reinfestation at her house.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), January 09, 2002.

Probably the school is not making sure kids are not sharing things like combs, brushes, etc. Also, when I went to school you were supposed to have your OWN kleenex, school supplies, etc. so you were not in as much physical contact with other kids as you are today--nowadays parents do not send their kids prepared, so there is a lot of extra nudging on the shoulder to borrow this and that, the teachers don't give a rat's derriere (in my day, you would have had your grade docked if you borrowed paper, pens, etc.), and lice jump from one person to another, so kids should learn to keep their distance. Also, overcrowding in classrooms doesn't help either.

Can you do a combing in a semi-warm area before she comes in the house? Is there a grade level when this more or less stops? I'd never even heard of lice until a few years ago.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 09, 2002.


I used olive oil and shower cap, but my daughter is allergic to the olive oil, her eyes swelled shut. You need to be careful with the home cures, sometimes they backfire. It did work on my boys though. After you sit for 30 minutes with it covered you use dish detergent to wash the oil out then use regular shampoo, but you have to get all the eggs out too, and spray and wash everything.

-- Vanessa (tvhayes@aeneas.net), January 11, 2002.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ