21st century "blacklists" [which have nothing to do with being black.]

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Somehow, I knew it would come to this. I wonder where the lists will be published so that neighbors and colleagues can send in reports to the government on everything from type of shoes worn to words said.

Blacklisting by Lynn Cheney and Lieberman

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001


Okay...Lynne Cheney. [grumble] People are always trying to be different.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

College professors can debate all they want in open forums. It is when they subject a captive class full of students to their political opinions that gets me rankled. It happened to me when I was in college. I tried to disagree with the professor and he dismissed my argument and moved on to his next opinion.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), December 18, 2001.

Buddy: I had a history prof like that. For some reason he HATED the Kennedy Administration. HOWEVER, I felt he was the best history prof because he forced us to read all kinds of material outside the text- provided-stuff.

The guys now being accused are NOT doing this stuff in the classroom, but outside. Only those who are interested even bother to come.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

Lieberman? Didn't he just run for VP as a Democrat or sumpin?

-- (Roland@hatemail.com), December 18, 2001.

Yes, Roland. I think you're catching on. This has NOTHING to do with party affiliation.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

Best classes don't have squat to do with opinon just the mundane stuff like science, math, literature & history. Opinion oriented classes create opinion. What a treat. Don't mean much cept provin you are what you were coming in and you chatted about it. Upside is you got credits for it but downside is you didn't learn shit.

Pretty rough generalization but those who got their degree with credits instead of knowledge should admit (only to themselves of course) that they got screwed. Ed majors excepted cause most will never figure out the difference anyway. Must be feeling cranky tonite.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), December 19, 2001.

Don't want to become Thread Killer Carlos here but seems when such reactionary thoughts as actually learning stuff comes up there's no reposite (sp?) from the other team. If it's the deodorant just say so.

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), December 20, 2001.

To be honest, Carlos, I couldn't relate to "an opinion-oriented class". I've had classes where profs expressed opinions, but never had one that simply revolved around opinions. I suppose some people absorb the opinion of a prof and incorporate it as their own, but I don't know anyone who does. All three of my kids have had college profs who expressed SOME opinion of which they disagree. They never thought that the "deal" was that they had to "suck up" to the opinion of the prof to get a good grade. In fact, I read their English essays on occasion and ASKED if the subject matter would "go over" with the prof. I was told that the prof had a totally different viewpoint. They got graded on their use of the language, and not their views.

Campuses always have the off-hour activities. Sometimes it's an anti- war protest, sometimes a gay rally, sometimes a New Republican Club meeting, etc. Only those interested in the subject matter attend. [Well, I suppose there ARE some who come simply to heckle, but *I* never had time for that, and my kids didn't either].

There was a woman who attended UTA last year who complained to me about one of her profs. I can't remember if he was anti-religion or had political views opposite hers, but it "bugged" her that he expressed his opinions openly in class. She felt really uncomfortable about it and didn't look forward at all to the class. All of my Biology profs believed in Evolution AND Global Warming. While I trusted their experience beyond those of say people on the internet, the ultimate decision in what *I* believed rested with ME.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), December 20, 2001.

Hmmm...unless I missed something, pretty much all I see is namecalling by the author. Fascists, blacklisters, academic terrorists, McCarthyists, freedom-attackers, etc. I see neither definitions of these terms as he uses them nor any other substance here, though.

It's like he's really angry but can't seem to find an actual argument anywhere -- just a written foot-stamping, hair-pulling rant.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), December 20, 2001.

Eve does have a point. It would be nice to see the original documents rather than this author's criticism of it.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), December 20, 2001.

Here ya go, Buddy. It's a PDF file, but I'm sure you have the Acrobat Reader. I read all the stuff on the right-hand side [the actual report], but ignored for the most the propaganda on the left hand side.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the oldest trick in the book. The same thing, IMO, happened to Goldwater when he ran. The opposition took some statements out of context and ran with them.

Eve: I'm tired of all the sorry arguments about how Public Schools are creating a generation of illiterates and now how Universities are creating anti-Americans. Whose standards are being used? *I* want to hear both sides on EVERY topic, and it sure looked to ME like the folks who created this report want folks to hear only THEIRS.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), December 20, 2001.

Anita you make my point much better than I could have. Certain your kids took some classes where opinion took a back seat to real. Jousting with Pythagoris or Newton was stroking for stroking's sake even then but few did. Jousting today has become part of a rite of passage into a snobby elite of ignorants. Scary ain't it?

-- Carlos (riffraff@cybertime.net), December 20, 2001.

Anita, when it gets to the teacher looking for reasons for 9/11, this might very well imply that the teacher is trying (perhaps subtly) to get across there might be a justification for 9/11.

And the root of that notion is usually multiculturalism, which is pure evil assuming it's used to imply that we can't criticize another culture's actions (whether it be the clothes they wear to whether they practice human sacrifice, mass murder or slavery) because they have their own standard of the "good", their own morality, belief systems, customs, etc.

Yet the exception here (within multiculturalism) is that other cultures CAN criticize -- or take action against -- us because Western culture is the only anti-culture culture, due to its secularism, freedom, individual rights; plus it's the richest, and therefore should be eradicated.

And most of these teachers aren't really concerned with the other cultures -- it's just a cover for their hatred of Western culture -- a way to tear Western culture down.

Yes, I believe there's a lot of this type of corruption going on in the schools.

-- Eve (eve_rebekah@yahoo.com), December 21, 2001.

It seems to me that all the report is doing is asking that those who support the US position speak up. The professors have a right to speak, but we all also have a right to criticize them. Frankly, I think some of the comments from students show they have been misguided. As for justifying 9/11, there is no justification for what OBL and his hoodlums have done.

-- Buddy (buddydc@go.com), December 21, 2001.

Frankly, I think some of the comments from students show they have been misguided.

Do you think that the American Taliban member was ALSO "misguided", Buddy?

IMO, if you've not spent several years thinking for yourself, you have no business being in University. The only opinions that professors have that will rankle you are the ones with which you STRONGLY disagree. Some Christians don't like profs who believe in Evolution. My daughter didn't like one prof who felt that women belonged in the home. She didn't like another who thought that legalizing marijuana for medicinal uses was wrong. I haven't seen any of them "swayed" or "led astray". They went into the experience with their OWN opinions, and seem to hold those opinions DESPITE what the profs may offer as opinion outside the subjects they teach. Grownups know why they're going to school, and it isn't to ABSORB the opinions of the profs. If you're not grown by 17 or 18, there's been a problem in your upbringing, IMO.

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), December 21, 2001.

Here's another opinion essay on this. Yeah, it's from the Democratic Underground, but can we just stick to what's said?

Another Joe Six-Pack Puts in His 2 cents

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), December 22, 2001.

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