Forte Elegance Neutral Tone

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I've used Forte Elegance Polywarmtone Plus paper, and I've been quite happy with the results. I recently tried a sample package of their neutral tone RC paper, which I was given at the resent Photo EXPO in NYC. That was very pleasing for an RC paper, as well.

My question is, before I invest in a box of their neutral tone fiber paper (B&H has only boxes, no small size packs of the paper.) I wanted to get feedback from someone who is familiar with this paper and could compare it to something like Kodak PolyMax Art in terms of image color, scale and brilliance.

-- Ted Kaufman (writercrmp@aol.com), December 17, 2001

Answers

There is an excellent article and review of this paper in the July/ August 1997 Photo Techniques by Bruce Barnbaum.(I know that is a little old.) It was then, and is now, his paper of choice of all leading premium papers. The paper has exceptional tonal characteristics. The base is bright white, and silvery midtones go all the way to the deepest black. This is a rich paper with a deep neutral black. One of it's best characteristics is it's high degree of sensitivity. This applies to the VC version's sensitivity to dichroic filteration and more importantly to it's ease of bleaching and toning. It's ability to accept selenium has to be experienced to be believed. I use a 1:40 ratio of selenium to water for about 7 min. for beautiful rich tones! I have used Ilford Galerie and Multigrade IV as well as Oriental Seagull. It compares favorably with any of these but is superior in my opinion due to its tonability.

-- Arden Howell (Serenisea@aol.com), December 17, 2001.

Image color can be highly dependent on developer, so be aware that my comparison is based on Polymax T, reportedly "liquid Dektol." I use a fair amount of Polymax Fine Art, and it is extremely neutral without toning. Fiber Forte "neutral" Elegance was *very* cold out of the developer. I didn't bother toning it, so can't provide any insight as to how well it might neutralize in selenium. Brilliance took a distant second place to the Polymax Fine Art, but in case one thinks I was being wowed by Kodak's brighteners, know that Oriental Seagull or Ilford Multigrade IV FB also seem more brilliant to me than Forte's entry. Scale seemed a bit shorter to me than the Polymax Fine Art but, again, since I was less than impressed by the Forte's other characteristics, I didn't work it too hard. Could be that (much) lower numbered filters might have tamed the high contrast evident with my Aristo V54-tubed head and a #2 filter.

-- Sal Santamaura (santamaura@earthlink.net), December 17, 2001.

The Forte paper you mention (Elegance, neutral tone, VC) has become one of my favorite papers despite a recent problem I had with two bad boxes (see related thread). My experience is that it responds to selenium toning with a "warmish" rather than a cold tone, which surprised me when I first tried it. In fact, it responds to sepia in a similar manner to warm tone paper -- gives a putrid yellow tone that I think is awful. So one limitation of this paper for me is that I don't use it if I plan to use sepia (for sepia toning my paper of choice currently is Ilford neutral tone).

With selenium toning (I use a strong solution, 1 to 5), I have also found it very pleasing on landscapes, especially scenes with cloud formations that have been photographed with a red filter.

I have also had success using Selectol with this paper to achieve some really nice portraits (again, with selenium toning). All in all, I would describe it as my "warmish" paper of choice despite its description as a neutral paper.

-- Jim Rock (jameswrock@aol.com), December 17, 2001.


Forgot to add that I was referring to the fiber-based paper.

Regarding purchasing in smaller quantities, 8x10 is available in 25 sheets, and 11x14 and 16x20 are both available in 10 sheet packages. Just checked the B&H website and they have these smaller quantities available and in stock (you must have gotten bad info from someone).

-- Jim Rock (jameswrock@aol.com), December 17, 2001.


Thanks, everyone, for your responses. I'm always amazed by the divergence of opinion here. In a way that's good, though. There is no substitution for self-experimentation.

Jim, thanks for the information on the packages available at B&H. I was physically at the store and didn't see anything but 100 8x10 and 50 11x14 boxes of Elegance Neutral on display and didn't bother to ask if they had any other stock. Now that I know I can buy 10 sheets, and don't have to invest in a box of paper I may not like, trying it personally seems the only answer.

Sal, I use an Aristo VC4500 head and find that with Kodak's Polymax Art I get 1-2 grades more contrast with that paper than with anything else. So frequently I'm printing at grade #1, whereas with most other papers I would use #3 for the same negative. Have you experienced that, too?

-- Ted Kaufman (writercrmp@aol.com), December 18, 2001.



Ted, I'm using a single Aristo V54 tube in a Zone VI head, Ilford filters with Ilford paper and Kodak filters with the Polymax Fine Art. I tried both filter sets on the Forte and each resulted in much higher contrast than the Kodak paper.

As for Polymax Fine Art, no, your experience is the opposite of mine. I end up using 1/2 to 1 higher numbered filters with it than with, for example, Ilford Multigrade IV. This comparison is based on the V54 tube, each paper manufacturer's filters and Polymax T developer.

-- Sal Santamaura (santamaura@earthlink.net), December 18, 2001.


I print on a Aristo VC4500, primarily using Polymax Fine Art[fiber- glossy]. Using this light source the paper has a TREMENDOUS exposure scale producing a low contrast equivalent to grade 0 all the way to a grade 5, possibly higher. It is a nuetral tone paper which was probably designed for the straight line films like Tmax and Delta. IMHO it has a better black the Ilfords MC. It is nuetral and does not tone easily. I like it. It is great for split printing. Negatives [minuses] are that it ages quickly and does not tone easily.John Elder

-- John Elder (celder2162@aol.com), December 23, 2001.

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