I have 80 acres and about a third of it is wooded. A lot of this needs thinning really bad. I would also like to convert some of the wooded area into pasture.

I could also use a few bucks.

A friend was telling me today that I should sell wood by the cord. I'm thinking that having somebody log it for lumber would pay more.

Can anyone offer some advice?

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), December 06, 2001

Answers

If you are going to have your property logged, do your homework. If I was ever to log again I would sit out at the front of the property and count the loads. Period. I would be upfront with the logger that, alot like used car salesmen, I have heard just to many bad things about the industry to trust anybody. They get payed by tickets on weight. I would match up all the tickets with all the loads they sign for as they leave my gate. Guess how we know this :) Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh TX (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), December 07, 2001.

Where are you located? How old (predominatly) are the trees? Are they hardwoods or softwoods? These are important factors in you decision. Here is what I can tell you: Loggers... when they selectively thin (or clear cut- they REALLY mess stuff up when they clearcut), they tend to make a mess of things- they cut alot of trails in to get the machinery in, they leave tops (a fire hazard), they leave rutts in the soil that last 40+ years, they like to sneak off with what they can, they disadvantages go on and on... BUT they do, sometimes pay good, depentant upon types off trees present and age of those trees (and condition- logs are scaled and the longer the straiter the run the better the price which translates into- tall strait trunked trees pay good, gnarly old field trees dont). By the CORD: If you plan on cutting the trees yourself, you can sell firewood around here for 100 bucks a cord- a cord being 4X4X8. It can be backbreaking work- trust me, I am doing it for a living this winter, and the first week or two gripping that splitting axe is agony. But, one man can pretty easily cut and split a cord a day by himself, so 100 bucks a day isnt bad. If you live anywhere near California, I have heard the oak firewood sells there for big bucks. Dont expect anyone cutting firewood to actually pay you for having the trees- there isnt enough money in firewood for someone to pay you... they prefer downed trees, anyways (at least I do!). Some potentially better ideas: Try to market specialty woods, if any are present- hardwoods can fetch a good price to the right place- we have several that buy hardwoods and specialty woods around here. Instead of thinking "by the cord" think by the bundle- if you could sell bundled wood, the pay is better.. city folks often buy, but you have to transport and have a place to sell from. How about campgrounds? If you could get in on selling bundled firewood there, it can be a good market! You could blend all these ideas- sell some to the loggers, (or cut it yourself and transport it yourself- if you have the means), the tops they leave behind and some stuff you cut out for firewood and some other stuff to specialty.. Pecan, some Oaks, Black walnut, large cherry trees, and others like cyprus, would fit in this catagory.

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), December 07, 2001.

When I wanted some of my property logged off, instead of hiring a logger to do the work for me, I just sold stumpage (standing trees) to a reputable logger who was reccommended by my neighbors.

We walked the property a couple of times making it clear what was to be clear cut, what areas were selective cut only, and marked trees and boundaries. We had a clear understanding where equipment could or could not go and how each area was to be left when the work was done and when the work was to be finished by.

He wrote me out my check up front and it was up to him to pay an extra cutter and to pay truck drivers and to keep track of paperwork. I got a nice lump sum of cash, a custom landscape and enough firewood left over from the project to keep my family warm for quite a few years.

In this day and age a serious logger who wants to stay in business learns to cater to the smallholders who need custom residential jobs. Be sure to get references and give a good reference for a job well done.

-- Just Duckie (Duck@spazmail.com), December 07, 2001.

Call the State Forester for your area. They will do an on-site survey and give you professional advice. They can also provide a list of competent loggers in your area, including someone who may log with mules or horses.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), December 07, 2001.

Paul I dont know if you would want lumber from your trees or not but I had enough lumber from Five big trees cut last year to build 24by40 foot barn and my cost for having a man with a woodmizer sawmillcome to my farm was around $650.00 cheap barn and the lumber is far more better than what I could have bought. Indiana country Friend Jack Bunyard

-- Jack Bunyard (bunyard@cnz.com), December 07, 2001.

We just had our timber logged this fall and am very happy to say it was a wonderful experience. They took about 80 trees and we got around $4000. Yes, there are tree tops and limbs laying around, but the company stacked them in piles for us. We'll cut those up to burn next year. They only took the main trunks so we've got a lot of good burning wood left. They made some 'paths' through the timber with there machinery, but now we have trails to walk through. We heard all the horror stories of loggers before we did this and were very nervous. Just wanted to let you know that we were very pleased with the end result. Logging can be a good experience. Maybe we were just lucky but I thought you might like to hear a happy logging story.

-- Stacey (stacey@lakesideinternet.com), December 07, 2001.

I'm in eastern Washington state. About a half hour north of Spokane.

Almost all of the trees are softwoods.

The biggest stuff is about two to two and a half feet thick at the base. I would like to leave most of the big boys.

$4000 for 80 trees! Wow! How big were these trees? How many acres was logged?

Jack, Did the guy with the mill come and cut the trees too? Or did you have to pile up all the trees first? Did he charge by the hour?

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), December 07, 2001.

We have a trailer that can hold about four tons. I hauled about 20 loads of manure with it the summer and fall.

I wonder if we could go out there, cut the trees, put them on the trailer and drive them to the mill ourselves? Would that be worthwhile?

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), December 07, 2001.

4 ton trailer won't carry many. You could still do it though. I hope you have a front-end loader that can handle that, it'd make it much easier than winching them up ramps. I'd take your time and don't rush into anything with this. Like many suggested, be versitile. You'll get more out of it if you're selective.

I wouldn't pay a logger to just come in and take it all if you have the time and means to do it yourself. Like was suggested, do some up as firewood, sell the high grade trees to a mill. The logger is just the middleman so if you cut it yourself it might be worth it to you. If you think you could use some lumber in the future, make a deal with the mill to cut you some in exchange for some of the timber. We did that a few times and it worked out well. We had a big enough truck and front end loader to make it easy but it might work out better to make a deal with the mill to come get it.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), December 07, 2001.

We are in NW Oregon, Mr. Wheaton, and know a very reputable logger who may have a recommendation for you. I'll ask him if he has any friends in your area. As far as hauling yourself, do you have a way to load your truck? My family has selectively logged for any decades on the same 80+ acres, and has always had someone with a self loader come out and do the hauling. The men (my grandfather, father and uncles) do the falling and bucking then have someone come and do the loading and hauling. It's been a great renewable resource.

-- Cara Dailey (daileyd@agalis.net), December 07, 2001.

We have 36 acres of which probably around 20 is timber. They wouldn't take any trees that were less than 12 or 14 inches in diameter. We think the land was logged just before we bought it too. We called 3-4 different loggers to price the cut and this was the best deal we could get. The company we hired marked the trees before the cut so we could approvee what they were taking. Didn't matter - we needed the cash. :)

-- Stacey (stacey@lakesideinternet.com), December 07, 2001.

I have a loader that's supposed to be able to lift more than a ton.

While I don't have mounains of time, I might not mind taking some time to do this myself. At least sometimes.

How long do the logs need to be for the mill?

-- Paul Wheaton (paul@javaranch.com), December 07, 2001.

Paul:

It would **really** be in your best interest to contact your state employed forester, there should be one assigned to cover your county for private land assistance. Their services should be at no direct cost as your state taxes cover that. They can provide you with at a minimum a sample contract to use with loggers and possibly also a list of loggers in your area as well as lists of consulting foresters who can assist with timber marketing. They can also inform you of any pertinent state laws or tax issues that it would be good know about in advance.

A managed, marked sale bid out on a lump sum basis is what I recommend to folks around here. A contract is an absolute necessity.

Also, if you're wanting to do a land conversion, you may want to leave higher stumps to pull them out later. You might want to double check your soils and slopes to ensure that it would be feasible for pasture too. It may be worth more in the long run as timber.

Susan (a forester in MO)

-- Susan (smtroxel@socket.net), December 07, 2001.

Contact all the mills in the area, (and around here, a lot are not in the yellow pages) and get their spec sheets on what trees they buy and how they want them cut. If they have a preference for 19 foot logs and you cut to 16, you could lose a fortune in the value. Also, the mills around here don't pick up, but you can find a trucker who does and I think this easily pays for itself. One truckload can be worth a couple of thousand dollars in hardwoods, so a couple hundred to not have to load and transport logs is worth it.

I am planning to do the same with my 200 acres in New York, so I am interested in what you wind up doing. Keep us posted.

-- Rod Perrino (redjouster@aol.com), December 07, 2001.

PLEASE, get the advice of a Forester. You listed two of your objectives for your woodlot (money & pasture). Forests are very dynamic and getting proper advice based upon YOUR objectives for the woodlot (not the contractor or local mill) is essential. Knowing the species and the different silvics of each species , how they respond to certain silviculture treatments in general and specifically in your area is critical. I know i would not want to convert my woodlot from more desireable tolerant species to pioneer type species for a few dollars in the short term. It takes a long time to grow a tree and it doesn't take long to cut it down, once its cut it's gone!! If properly managed, your woodlot will generate more. More what? Depends on you, volume, money, wildelife, esthetics,recreation, water quality etc.. As a forester (not trying to promote or defend my proffession) I strongly urge you to get the advise of an independant forester. Although, it is assuring to see some positive experiences in this forum. I hope i didn't come across as anti tree cutting, I'm not, not even close. I JUST WANTED TO STRESS THAT ONCE THAT TREE IS CUT IT'S NOT COMING BACK FOR A LONG TIME. Cut the proper trees for the proper reasons.

-- Pierre (timberjerk83@yahoo.ca), December 08, 2001.

Paul, if you decide to have your trees cut and taken out by a logger, DO YOUR HOMEWORK! I just recently had around 50 acres timbered. I got over $17,000. for it. I am now out of debt. Was it worth it, yes and no. The money was nice but looking over the property now sickens me. It's hard to recognize where you are now with all the tree tops everywhere. Did they do a good job? I would say no. Amish guys came and wanted to do the work. I asked about using horses but was told our property is too steep for horses. I assumed amish would be doing the work. There were 3 guys working. An amishman cut the trees, but the other 2 guys were not amish. 1 ran the log skidder, the other cut the logs to length. The skidder damaged alot of trees. I am still in the process of having things "fixed" by the logger. When I have this done again ( yes I will, as trees do need thinned from time to time) I will make sure of the following: I will get paid up front the full amount before work begins. Specify what gets cut and what doesn't. Specify size and where on the tree gets measured. (On this job 16" trees were cut. I assumed at chest height. My assumption was wrong. It was at ground level.) When they come to mark what trees get cut, I will come with them. Specify a time of contract. Mine was 1 year. Make sure all roads made are leveled off. (I have trails in my woods now, but they left the tree tops all over them. I assumed they would leave the trails bare.) Make sure everything is in writing. I have all kinds of tree tops to cut now if I wish. I should have possibly told them to put all the tops in one place, but maybe they would have damaged things worse. I am taking this as a learning process. Learn from your mistakes. But it's alot better to learn from someone else's mistake! The most important thing I learned is don't assume anything!

-- Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania (kirklbb@penn.com), December 09, 2001.