We have two preschoolers we are trying to homeschool. One catches on real fast, the other does but likes to keep her knowledge to herself. I am having trouble finding a group in my area that is not heavily steeped in religion (we are homeschooling to be sure the children get the best education possible, not for spiritual reasons) and the older child is showing a need to be around other kids: she gets super-hyper when she hasn't had contact outside of her sister for more than a couple days, she constantly asks to be places where she'll be around other children (park, store, swimming class,etc), and when she is around other kids, she sometimes comes to me asking things like, "why does she like me?" or "why does --- want to hold my hand?".

I really wanted to homeschool, but I'm thinking she desperately needs other kids. She's such a nice girl, and is very polite and kind, and I'm afraid she may become a teenager that doesn't know how to socialize with other teenagers. And what if that means she won't know how to socialize with other adults at that stage? She will not have had the same basic experiences (peer pressure, conflict issues, athletics). I need to hear from both sides of the coin on this one, as she will be kindergarten age next fall, and we take a long time to settle on decisions, here.

-- Dawn in MN (olsoncln@ecenet.com), November 25, 2001

Answers

Have you checked out the athletic organizations that are available in the area? We homeschool and our boys played ball(baseball and basketball and soccer) in grade school. It would be an opportunity for her to be around other children at least a couple of days a week. The library should have opportunities for children's classes too. Where we used to live there was a wonderful science museum that had classes once a month. The zoo might have classes as well. You will be surprised at how many organizations offer free or very reasonable classes for kids. Mine loved the classes and it gave them a chance to interact with other children of differing backgrounds, yet they were still supervised by an adult. I have to admit it, I loved the classes too!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 25, 2001.

I don't think it will harm your children to play with other kids that are from a religious background. Most Christian children are *fairly* well behaved, though there will always be excpetions. If your children come to you with questions about religion, you can tell them your view on the matter. I think it is good for children to be aware that not everyone believes exactly as their parents do, just as not everyone has white skin.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 25, 2001.

First, I'd say trust your own feelings. She made need to go to school. Another idea, some public schools allow home schoolers to come to school for music, art, electives. That would be a good way to see how the school part works for her. Good Luck!

-- DW (djwallace@ctos.net), November 25, 2001.

I think it's important to remember that, since the beginning of time, children have successfully learned socialization by watching adults deal with one other, not by battling it out with their same age peers in a vacuum, without positive examples. Socialization is one of the great strengths of homeschooling, rather than a flaw.

That said, I too am the homeschooling mother of a very extroverted only child in a rural area, and let me tell you, it's very possible to find ways outside of public school for your daughter to socialize. Since homeschooling requires less than half the time public school takes each day, you have lots of opportunity to get involved with Brownies & Girl Scouts, art and music lessons, chess clubs, astrology clubs, and play groups. For our family, a children's theater group gave my daughter ample opportunity to socialize with kids of all ages, along with allowing her to "follow her bliss". Just listen to your daughter. Something interests her more than anything else in this world. Find her other people who share her interest, and go from there. It's not hard, and it's very much worth the effort.

-- Julia (charmer24@juno.com), November 25, 2001.

Homeschooling does NOT mean the absence of "other" kids!!!!!!!!!!

"Socialization"(I hate that word!) with other children and adults is vital! Not so they can be "molded" to fit into "social" society, but so they can have friends, differing views, experiences, ect.

We homeschool our 3 girls, 1 boy. One of our girls is going through the same stages as yours'....so we know how you feel.

Many homeschoolers have an iron fisted grip on their children...we did when we started...but we have loosened up quite a bit.

Get them involved in as many activities as you can stand (and afford!) Animal showing at fairs, swim classes(a winner for us!), sports if so inclined(not for us), ect, ect...are all good avenues.

She'll be fine.....just get her out in the world a little.

-- Jason in S. Tenn. (AJAMA5@netscape.net), November 25, 2001.

It is my understanding that the preschool year - 3rd grade all recieve excellent marks for education and social skills for non special need kids. [As long as the teacher to student ratio is not laughable] It is after this that the 'i'm bored, it's too easy' or teaching for rote memorization begins.

You may even find that the one who does not like to verbalize her learning might bloom in a 'lower pressure' [less one to one] group play & work situation. She knows her sister is outgoing & quick so she might feel pressured to be 'just like' her. Whereas in a classroom there is a full range of 'slow', 'fast','outspoken & quiet so she might find her voice there easier?

Do any of the schools allow for 1/2 day attendence or just spring semester or such? Allow you to come in as a teachers aide?

It should not set your kids back to try out a local public school for a short time. You sound like the kind of parent that would stay involved, not leave the kids to sink or swim.

I belive that modern homeschoolers get the same social skills that are displayed by their parents/caregivers. Of course the kids have individual personalities too.

I would not read your childs questions about other kids behavor towards her as 'proof' of her lack of social skills, rather the opposite. She wants confirmation that another kid is acting differant than she would in a given situation & she is checking in w/ you about it. A kid w/ the sensitivity to notice behavior differances and social mores does not sound like she will end up a wallflower!

-- bj pepper in C. MS. (pepper.pepper@excite.com), November 25, 2001.

It is REALLY important to make sure your little ones are involved in a sport hobby or craft, like 4-H brownies etc. That way the recieve the social skill for life. My son is an only child who hates going to school and I am thinking about homeschooling him. He will attend Cubs. martial arts and 4-H for sure.

-- Judith in BC (jtjosvold@mybc.com), November 25, 2001.

It is possible to do "home supplementary schooling" rather than "home schooling". That is, allow your husband or yourself (as inclined - maybe flip a coin for first chance) to take a shotgun to the TV, then go back to the "everybody sits round the big kitchen table" model of home evenings, with people doing homework, reading, home or farm accounts, knitting or sewing, whatever. Or the dining-table, with Mum and Dad in their lounge-chairs; and the kids allowed onto the sofa after they've finished their school-work. The kids do their homework with adult supervision and the occasional bit of direction (and I mean that literally - giving them a direction to head in - preferably allowing them to FIND a direction to head in by asking a few questions and allowing them to realise the answers for themselves - rather than telling them what to do). THEN something supplementary to what they get at school. School may try to teach them them hieroglyphics or word recognition or Chinese ideographs or some such - it may be up to you to teach them phonics so they can read any word, whether they've seen it before or not. School may not drill them in spelling; or teach them multiplication tables. You can cover that in three sessions an evening - maybe only ten-minutes each, and soon have them well ahead of their age-peers. Then ten or twenty minutes reading a story together. Also has the enormous advantage of getting back to spending time together - marriage partners, parents and children, whatever.

Now, I'm not saying this is ideal for everyone, and I'm not necessarily recommending it. But it worked well for a lot of generations, until TV, and if you take television out of the equation (except perhaps for weekends if you must) then it could work again - does for many.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), November 25, 2001.

Try to find how first how your child learns best--visual, auditory, kinesthetic. Studies have shown that most formal schools are great for those who learn by reading and watching, but not so great for the other two methods. Just something to think about. Not to mention, through your taxes, you are paying for state babysitting (at the very least), and many send their kids to school to get something in return for all that money. Maybe even year on (public school), year off (homeschooling) might work for you.

Public schools don't have to be all bad, although I disagree about how involved parents should get. Don't get me wrong, your duty as a parent is to make sure your child is fed, adequately rested and prepared for school (homework completed, etc.), and made to understand that the teacher and other adults deserve respect due to their age if for no other reason (in other words, if you have a valid disagreement, discuss it privately with the teacher, then tell the parent if there is still a problem). The other duty parents have is to keep tabs on what the schools are teaching your children as to whether or not it fits in with your families values, so you may have to spend more or less time "unlearning" what they're being taught.

However, I am appalled at how much volunteering the teachers and the schools are asking for and in some cases expecting from parents, and the number of assignments that require outside participation from others in the household (surveys, geneological projects, etc. that others might legitimately consider breach the bounds of privacy) who might be busy with other things. I have even seen it where they ask for field trip volunteers and still make them pay to go! You have a responsibility to your own child first, not everyone else's, and your time is valuable too.

Also, another thing that bothers me are all the "teamwork" assignments. They're great if the teacher assigns the work equally to all team members, and follows up to see exactly who isn't pulling his/her weight, but all too often one person does all the work and others just skate. You don't want your child to be either one of those--you want them to be able to do things for themselves, and be graded accordingly.

Others have given good advice about other organizations to join--this offers you more of an opportunity to vet your child's friends (and just as important, their parents) and you can choose to be or not be around certain people--nigh onto impossible with public school.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 25, 2001.

We haven't had a television for a long time. I have found that my kids replaced the television with a love for reading. Not to bash the T.V. but it is a big waster of time. If you think of how much garbage comes into your home on it, then it makes our decision not to have one seem like the best one. Never having had one except for the occasional video when they were little, my kids don't miss it. We don't watch videos now either. Just too many other worthwhile things to do. My husband's parents and my mother watch it pretty constantly. For my mother it is some background noise because she lives alone. With kids around you don't need any background noise! :~)!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 25, 2001.

Well, that answer that I gave was in response to Don's post. When it came up after the good suggestions from GT then it looked out of the blue. Even for me:~)!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 25, 2001.

We homeschool our soon to be 6 yr.old and our 4 yr.old the twins watch at this point,we joined the YMCA and they love it.Our Y has a homeschool morning,where the roller rink is open and a snack bar also free swim ,the girls love it.We do ballet and swim lessons also at the Y and maybe camp this summer.The Y seems pricey to me but once I broke it down to per child per hour its not bad {$2 an hr per child} and the twins can also do activities.Next year I hope to have them in the girl scouts and pre 4h,we will wait and see.The one down fall I have found is some of the kids in their classes have no want to be there and their parents use it as babysitting time,many times I have heard my oldest telling some kids they are being rude or misbehaveing,she wants to be there and gets upset. I would not worry you will work it out. One other thing activities do not have to be w/ other children either mine love going to the nursing home and visiting.

-- renee oneill (oneillsr@home.com), November 25, 2001.

Please don't be snookered into thinking that your child must be "socialized" to the point that you are running to special classes, clubs, lessons, etc all the time. The point of home education is to be able to spend the time necessary with each child to insure that he learns and at his own pace; to allow that child to be a child, not a social butterfly, and grow more slowly but more deeply. She needs to learn to socialize with adults (she'll spend a lot more years with them than with children) and to function in an adult world. She will learn these things while going and doing with you. The "social" question is one made up by society to put down home-educated children but it is not a real question. A normal family will supply, as a matter of course, ample social contact. Oh, and I understand about the religious H.S. groups. As a Christian, even, I am put off by them because it becomes a holier than thou thing, in the case of the group here, even requiring us to sign a "statement of faith". Make up groups with friends. Try putting up a note in the library to contact other home schooling families. Word gets around and you'll find like-minded people. Good luck. It's a trip but a worthwhile one. My homeschooler is now a junior in college after never having attended public school and it was good.

-- Rosalie (deatline@globalsite.net), November 25, 2001.

Nan, I agree about the TV for the most part--I could get rid of it, but I don't think dh would like it, lol. Our little one watches mostly PBS (our station did not run ANYTHING about WTC during the children's programming, which was really considerate). I love watching the how-to art programs (much cheaper than lessons), documentaries and nature programs. There is also a GED class for those who are interested.

That said, it is a shame that much of the really good programming is now on pay (cable/satellite) TV. Some of these same programs are used in schools to teach with. Oh well, at least here in the states you don't have to pay a license fee to the government just to watch a TV, like you do in Britain!

There is something about actually seeing something with your own eyes (non-fiction) that reading can't quite compare to. Although the rule for our little one will definitely be "read the book first", lol. But moderation in everything.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), November 25, 2001.

Just a thought.

We homeschooled our kids for many years. The youngest from k thru 12. The older 2 to lesser degrees.

We are of the opinion that one should avoid the public school system if you are homeschooling your own children, even for sports or any other extra cirricular activities.. If they give you something they will expect you to do some things their way. It has been done many times in many places in this country. I would avoid them at all cost no matter how concerned and helpful they may seem. They want your kids in their school. Without them they don't get the money from the state. They will do a lot of things to get them back. Ask any homeschooler who has been doing it for a while, they have stories or know of someone who had a hard time with the school system once they connected with them. Hope you heed this advice.

Talk to you later.

-- Bob in WI (bjwick@hotmail.com), November 25, 2001.

I gues I would have to ask what are you home schooling a pre-schooler on? They are pre-school and pre-school is pretty much the social activities your talking about. Dont try to force them ahead of what they can do. Homeschooling doenst mean the kid has to be super kids. Let them be kids first. Have you checked with a local pre-school, Do they have part time schedules? Maybe a few days in preschool is what she needs at this time in her life.

Have you checked to see if there is a MOPS chapter in your area? Check out http://www.gospelcom.net/mops/ for more info on chapters. While mops is christian based its desiged to provide a safe place for both mothers and children to get away from each other and interacte with life minded folks and give kids a chance to meet other kids. At a minimum you might find some other Moms and can arrange playdates with other kids near your childs age. If your going to continue to homeschool you may want to check with your local school, Some school systems allow homeschoolers to participate in school activities and clubs.

-- Gary (gws@columbus.rr.com), November 25, 2001.

first question i have is: what are you trying to teach them now? they are so young! search "home education magazine" and check out their homeschooling website.

second, my daughter craved other kids, and while i tried to provide it at that age, she always complained and it wasn't enough. she begged for school. i allowed it finally for her and her brother.

it was AWFUL. but wonderful, because she got to see how it really was. after two years, they are home again. we are grateful. we had and have homeschooling friend s of all persuasions, and it is a wonderful opportunity to learn about others beliefs and how they mirror ours or not, and are great opportunities to explore whether they agree with what YOU believe or not. we did and do "unschooling" which does NOT mean no discipline or instruction. we follow our kids interests, sneak math in through daily work (figuring out how much fencing we need, costs, etc.,).

I really feel in the long run letting them try school was much more damaging than helpful, but they have recovered, and they always knew they could change their minds (after a commitment of 1 1/2 years to get over being the new kids and actually fitting in the second year). my daughter is very social, and she is in girl scouts (though doesn't like it much) , has friends around (one good one in public, one in private, one in a different public through our church, and one homeschooled too), and how many friends do they need? i think one of the biggest flaws in our culture the amount of years our children spend being raised by others and other children. the peers become more important than the family.

they are JUST preschoolers. they suck the energy out of you still! mine at almost 9 and 11 are a delight to be with! we love being together, "sleeping late" (they don't get up till 8 or 830) , doing fun things during the day, and being together. when they are away from home and with others, i hear from everyone how mature, polite, well-behaved they are. they are considered two of the kindest, most compassionate kids around.

i would suggest a board for homeschoolers to get a lot of input from people in your position. on the other hand, let her try school out and pull her out if you see her unhappy.

-- marcee (thathope@mwt.net), November 25, 2001.

You need to ask yourself this question..... Do you want the kids to pick up other kids bad habits or would you rather have them learn from adults? And by that I mean yours and your family. I would rather have my kids around me than other teenagers any day. Don't worry about the socializing, it pretty much comes naturally.

-- VAS in Utah (ut_gemini@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Hi Dawn, I am a highschool graduate and was homeschooled the whole way from K - 12. Although my parents did try to put me in school to see how I liked it, I just ended back at home (my choice). Our family was overseas for my preschool to 2nd grade years and back in the states for the rest of it. My point is, I was never without friends. Whether it was through church, play groups, P.E. classes, or the local HS group, I never went for more than a few days without being around some kids my age. The only hitch is to make sure that you're not wearing yourself out by taking your girls everywhere. There's the saying, "If Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy". I was only able to find one HS group in MN so if that will not work for you, you may need to find something else. Also, don't worry about her future socializing with "teenagers". I did just fine and now have 3 close and life long friends. That's not to say I don't have many others through work, church, and other, but there is something to be said for having just a couple of friends that "are closer than a brother". Best wishes, C.D.

-- c.d. (his4ever@mac.com), November 26, 2001.

Anyone thinking that "socialization" with lots of other kids is necessary so they learn how to "get along" needs to take an honest look at their own school years. How many children "got along", meaning settled differences without fighting, or treated other children as we teach our children to treat each other? Truth is children don't "get along" unless they're made to by the grownups, and the reality of school society is clique-oriented, cruelty, derision, and a massive pecking order. It only gets worse in the teen years as sex enters into the picture.

Reminds me of one of my homeschooling friends who counters the socialization question with, "Why would I want my children to learn social skills from people (other children) who don't have them?" This is not to say that children shouldn't be with other children - they should, in limited amounts. But to place them with people who are just as immature as they are and think that something good will happen to their behavior is unrealistic.

-- gita (gschmitz@directcon.net), November 26, 2001.

To answer, I am only teaching them shapes, colors, numbers (counting), and letters, and only when they are interested. We let them play with software designed for their age and work in activites books that they pick out. We don't push anything. The older one, with the social questions, is the one that is constantly asking about letters, words, numbers, etc. I suppose one day she'll shock us by sitting down and reading a book on her own, having taught herself!! As for combining with other groups with ideologies differing from our own, my concern is that the homeschool group here has opted to segregate the genders' curriculum. We have a basic principle that will not allow us to have anything to do with that-- equality and equity. We do not believe that genders should be taught seperate curriculum. If there is to be any seperation, it ought to be based on learning levels, rates or styles. I hadn't thought of girl scouts or 4H, as I'm not sure if they go that young, but I'll check into that. It is nice to know that other kids this age go through this, even if there is nothing I can do about it.

-- Dawn (olsoncln@ecenet.com), November 26, 2001.

I wouldn't put the little one in a public school for any reason.....

We homeschooled our last two. (I'm a newspaper reporter and regularl cover three boards of education and have been doing so for 21 years....and it's not just Alabama...I've covered them in other state's too.....)

Our kids were in Scouts, played soccer, did other things like that for socialization and didn't have any problems. The last, Nathan, is now almost 21, married with his own little homestead and is married to the daughter of a public school teacher!

-- Suzy in Bama (slgt@yahoo.com), November 26, 2001.

We have one child who is very active & social. When she was preschool age we joined a co-op preschool started by our church. I also tried MOPS. It didn't work out for us at first, but then I was hired as a babysitter/teacher & that was great. I could be there for my less social child & the older one had a blast. And I earned some extra money, too!

Now that she is 13, we found that mentors are very helpful. She is helping a friend who has therapy horses for handicapped kids. She is also involved in martial arts, music, home business & soon there will be community art classes. I'm somewhat shy, so it's interesting to see how my daughter is drawing me into new relationships & activities.

-- Bonnie (stichart@plix.com), November 26, 2001.

Dawn, Our kids are 10 (girl), 8,5,2,2 boys. The five year old had been a grumpy pain in the neck for weeks until he started preschool (3 hrs a day, five days a week) at our local parish school. His attitude changed immensly. The others can be grumpy and bored, too, then a friend shows up and they are all suddenly creative and full of energy.

Sometimes a "just change your attitude - or else..." lecture is in order. Sometimes we parents have been distracted or tired and uncreative, and we need to put down our books, put on some music and whoop it up a bit. Unfortunately we live in the city still, and so have not many "homestead " activities for them. I don't think we parents are supposed to be everything to our children; the gift of peer companionship is as valuable as the gift of non-peer companionship.

We are homeschooling the older two, but that's only possible right now because our 5-year old is off at school in the morning. With him around, I don't think the others would get half as much done. He is just too creative and inquisitive; always getting into trouble. So this avowed homeschooler is putting his most creative and adventuresome kid in school for THIS YEAR, but only because: 1)He is better off because it serves what HE NEEDS NOW. As his needs will change, and the school's methods change from grade to grade, we'll reevaluate next year. 2)It works for the rest of the family. 3)It is a small school of 120 students, a small class of 7 preschool/kindergartners 4)This is our parish school and we know almost everyone there.

hope this helps.

-- Bob (robertblessum@netscape.net), November 27, 2001.