Poor germination of saved seeds - HELP!

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Can anyone tell me why my saved cucumber seeds have such a poor germination rate?????? I rolled them in a damp paper towel and put them on top of the refridgerator for a germination test, and just under 1/3 sprouted!!!!!!!!! This hurts, as I was wanting to try raising seed for a seed company, and if I can't produce a good product, that's out!!!!!

I have read several several different sources on how to dry seeds, and they mostly don't agree with each other, so I just did the best I could.

One source said to wait until the cucumbers turned brown and hard, but when I tried that they rotted first. Another source said to wait until the cukes turned yellow, which worked out much better. I took them when they were about 18 inches long and yellow to white-yellow.

All my sources and books recommended fermenting the seeds to get rid of the pulp, but recommended different lengths of time. I fermented some for 2 days and some for 5 days. Seeds that sank were kept, seeds that floated were discarded.

I spread the seeds out thinly over sand to dry, and kept them in the shade to avoid overheating them. When they were dry to the touch, I put them in a layer about 1" deep in a large paper bag, left the top open for air circulation, and set them aside to finish drying. I gently stirred them 2x a day for the first couple of days to be certain any lingering dampness would not start mold growing.

The seeds looked good, but when I tried the germination test less than half of the seeds plumped up, and of those that did, not all of them put out roots.

The seeds that the seed company sent me, however, had almost 100% germination!!!! (and yes, these seeds are open pollinated, NOT hybrids!!!!!!!)

After 25 years of saving agricultural books, I have a library that is truly impressive, but the books don't always agree with each other, which is a problem as my friends don't share my interests, and so I don't actually know anyone outside of countryside to ask!!!! I don't believe I know anyone who has actually SAVED cucumber seeds!!!! Can anyone tell me what might have gone wrong????

-- terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), November 16, 2001

Answers

hmm, I save seed most years from my 'lemon cukes'. Do you have a alfalfa seed spouting jar/container? you might get a more accurate germination count using that. What temp. does a thermometer say it is above your fridge? cukes do like warm soil. I have never let the seeds ferment i just scoop & smear on cloth to clean them. Exposing the seeds to daylight will also increase germination. Planting/interplanting flowers will increase your pollination making more robust geminating seeds. Also did you have the other cuke relatives/varieties [melons,some gourds] at a good distance? They will readily cross changing the viability of your seed as well. Well terri now you know me :) hope this helps!

-- bj pepper in C. MS. (pepper.pepper@excite.com), November 16, 2001.

Where did you get your seed stock from? If you bought the seeds for the original plants from bioengineered stock, then it is quite possible the 1/3 sprouting is all you are going to get. Some companies are trying to make it so you have to buy seed from the year after year, rather than allowing you to harvest your own seeds, and cut them out of the profit loop.

Another possibility is that the seeds aren't mature. Take the fruit when the stem turns brown. Scrape it out, remove the pulp from around it and dry them in the sun. Unless you have them someplace where it gets extremely hot, your not going to damage them.

-- Wendy A (phillips-anteswe@pendleton.usmc.mil), November 16, 2001.


Wendy, How can you tell if your seeds are bioengineered stock? I really want to avoid that kind of thing. Thanks, Iris

-- Iris (Sar_India@msn.com), November 16, 2001.

The terminator gene is still illegal in this country as the, Monsanto, have been unable to prove that it won't jump crops. If you have hybrids I guess you could call them bioengineered but they have been around for a long time. They just don't come back "true". Hopefully Nan will see this thread, if not I will e-mail her. She saved successfully last year, cukes, because we traded seed and hers did fine for me. I saved this year, but don't know how they turned out yet as I never tryed them.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), November 16, 2001.

When I save seeds I just scoop them out and let them dry on a paper towel. I do occasionally have some cross, but that doesn't show up until the next generation. I saved the seeds from some spaghetti squash and some came out looking like they had crossed with a patty pan(round and white instead of oblong and yellow) and some crossed with what looked like a zuc!(looked like a giant zuchinni). Both had the flavor and the texture of a spaghetti squash! So....gotta be careful who the squash and melons have as neighbors(just like someone else said I think). The cucumber seeds that I have saved have always been huge yellow ones not the dried or mush ones. I don't remember if I saved the seeds that I gave to Diane or if I got them from some other ones that I had. If it is like the spaghetti squash it might have been both. I have saved pepper seeds, squash seeds, beans, broccoli, radish, etc.......Every time I just do the same thing. If it is pulpy-like: Scoop and stick on paper toweling or if it is dryish: gather into a small paper sack or envelope. I try to mark what they are on the towel too. I have a tendancy to not remember what they are when they all start looking alike! I planted what I thought were pumpkins last year and came up with some mighty weird looking hubbard squash! Still edible, but NOT what I thought they were. Oh...some say to store them in the freezer. I have never done that either. I have a half bushel basket that I keep in the pantry and whenever I finish drying a batch of seeds to keep I put them in a baggy, mark the type and put it in there. My pantry is cool and dry and dark. ( By the mudroom, but not where it will freeze.) I don't know what if any of that will help you, but that has worked for me. Oh....some seeds that retain moisture badly.....I found out...like impatiens...I put in a tiny envelope or paper sack. They will mold sometimes even if you think that they are completely dry. I also have some of those silica packets that I occasionally toss in with some iffy ones. My neighbor saves me all of the packets from out of her herb capsule jars.

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 17, 2001.


Thank you for the advice: I will have to try again next year!!!!

-- terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), November 20, 2001.

I would sure use the seeds that you have saved! They will still work, just not as many will germinate and you won't have to thin them and you can plant them double thick.

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 21, 2001.

Terri, we have saved tomato and charantais melon (which is very similar to cuke) seed for several years , once the fruit is definately ripe we scoop out the seed and then place them in a very fine sieve, a tea strainer is ideal, I then run them under the cold water tap for about 5 minutes whilst stirring with a finger. This gets rid of most of the slimy pulp. I then put them out onto every day 10x8 writing paper on a window sill in our living room for a couple of days to dry. Then we put them in cheap brown envelopes and store them in the pantry where its cool. Over 90% germinate. Ken

-- Ken Duggan (kduggan@mrao.cam.ac.uk), November 29, 2001.

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