Can animals think?

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Does anyone have any idea about this subject? Do animals have thinking capabilites or just reactionary? Are there any up to date and reliable books,etc. out there? I am in need of more info. for my studies on natural living. Thanks!

-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), November 12, 2001

Answers

Well, I can't offer any proof, but I do believe they can think. I can offer some anecdotal evidence that I learned MANY years ago in college at OSU (go Cowboys!) in my psych101 class. The University of Oklahoma was doing research on chimpanzee behavior. They had a large group of chimps that they had housed in a contained "natural" habitat. They introduced the concept of money to the chimps by giving them each a number of poker chips everyday that the chimps could trade to the handlers for things they enjoyed, like bananas, etc. Come to find out, it wasn't too long before the female chimps were coming to the handlers with the majority of the chips! The male chimps were giving the poker chips to the females for sex, and the females were trading the chips for what they wanted. I know it sounds bizarre, but it's true. That does show the ability to reason, however. (And a severe lack of good human morals!) :-)

Another thing I read about, in one of Carl Sagan's books (Broca's Brain, I think) was about a chimp that had been taught sign language. At one point, they gave the chimp a radish - something it had never had before, and didn't tell the chimp what it was. The chimp took a bite and spit it out. Using sign language, they asked the chimp what that thing was, and the chimp signed "cry hurt food." To me, again, that shows reasoning ability.

I've seen my little terrier work things out in his head, but again, I can't prove anything. I just believe that they can indeed think.

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), November 12, 2001.


I can't prove it, but I know they reason. I saw our Yorkie figure out that he could see us from inside the house better by going upstairs to a window. He had only been upstairs once. He had gotten tired of standing on his hind legs at the door, looking outside at us! There was that naughty face staring down at us! He has been gone for many years and I still miss him!

-- Ardie/WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), November 12, 2001.

Yes, they can. Don't you have any goats? ;)

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 12, 2001.

I second that about the goats! I can see the wheels a turnin' in my little pygmies head! Also, my Aussie's are very clever & they have to "think about" some of the things they do. Try doing a search on Barnes & Noble and see what you can find. I recall seeing a book in the store on this very subject.

-- Pam (pamandmatt@earthlink.net), November 12, 2001.

Animals, a definate YES, people, now thats questionable at times.

-- jz (oz49us@yahoo.com), November 12, 2001.


Check out these titles:

Wild Minds: What Animals Really Think by Marc D. Hauser

Beauty in the Beasts: True Stories of Animals Who Choose to Do Good by Kristin Von Kriesler

The Parrot's Lament: And Other True Tales of Animal Intrigue, Intelligence, and Ingenuity by Eugen Linden

Kindred Spirits:How The Remarkable Bond Between Humans and Animals Can Change the Way We Live by Allen M. Schoen DVM, MS

The Parrot Who Owns Me: The Story of a Relationship by JoAnna Burger

All of these have been published very recently. There was another title I had in mind but didn't come across it. Will let you know if I find it. This should get you started, though! :)

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), November 12, 2001.


I'll agree with JZ. Remember the chimp that the researchers locked into a room with four possible ways out, that they were going to observe to see which one it would find? The chimp found a fifth way out of the room.

My pony used to undo ropes and unlatch gates to get out. She would even try and work the latch very quietly when my back was turned so that I wouldn't hear what she was doing. When I would turn around, she would have quit and was looking innocent. If she was not thinking about it, she would have either stayed tied up (or in the paddock), or would have just fought the rope or tried to go through or over the fence. I also observed her out on tether one time when she had wound the rope around all four legs several times over and was good and stuck -- she looked down at the rope that was hampering her, proceeded to 'shimmy' in place until the rope fell down around her feet, then stepped out of it and proceeded on.

Anyone who owns ponies will tell you that they too think. Had another one who didn't like being kept in a paddock either. She learned to take a running start and DIVE between two hot wires, touching neither one, to get out. Seems to me that that is not something that you discover by reaction, it's something that needs to be figured out (none of the other horses or ponies had figured it out, but Peaches was a real stinkbug.)

Had another horse who knew how to pick up a glass bottle of soda pop with his teeth, chug it, and then would put it back where he'd found it, sitting upright and empty. For two weeks everyone was accusing each other of drinking their soda until the mystery was solved by someone observing Blackie through the window. He would look around first to make sure that the human was gone, sneak his drink, and return the bottle (instead of dropping it) when he was done so that no one would know who had drunk it. If the animal was merely reacting, he would have dropped the empty bottle when what he wanted was gone. Returning it to an upright position required thought.

Also check out information on Dr. Irene Pepperberg (try a Google search, there are pages and pages devoted to her and her parrot students) -- this is an interesting transcript of a learning session - - http://www.pbs.org/saf/transcripts/transcript205.htm

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), November 12, 2001.


A very large, very aggressive young male wandered onto my property; 'Bear', my then 10 yr. old, also aggressive, medium size male started to do battle. Bedlam ensued, kids and adults yelling, dogs barking it was awful! Poor old 'Bear' was clearly losing the fight, when out of no where, my meek, afraid of her own shadow 2 yr. female, 'Friday Girl' jumps in and after a few circles sinks her teeth into the intruders haunch! The big dog howled and turned; She ran away just as fast, giving Bear enough of an edge to pounce and do his work! Alpha now settled, the big dog ran off. It was a sight! I have no doubt, that Friday "thought' about a plan to save her pal, and Bear reacted to it. 'Bear' is 14 now, not much of a fighter anymore and I doubt we'll have the old boy too much longer. 'Friday' is still a chicken, and I have never again seen her act in that fashion.

-- Kathy (catfish201@hotmail.com), November 12, 2001.

I love your question. This debate has been going on for years... do animals have emotions and do they think? I always smile that I know the answer and all the scientists and researchers of the world are still pondering the possibilities. Do any of them have an animal? It would be hard to imagine that they do. My answer is yes! Feelings, emotions and the ability to think and reason are apparent in my domesticated pets and also the wildlife I encounter. Another good book to read is The Great Ape Project for intelligent observation of species other than humans. For fun, if you can find an old issue of National Geographic that featured "Animals at Play", you can sit quietly in the woods and see these things for yourself. I have two birds that love to fly onto the top strand of very slack wire on a fence and when they land it swings with them. As soon as it stops, they "force" it to keep swinging in the same fashion as you and I would do if we were sitting on a swing and wanted it to move with us( a little leg motion). They "rock" for hours at a time this way. I am convinced they think, they have emotions and they can be very creative when circumstances seem insurmountable-they will find a way if there is a way to be found.

-- Carole (carle@earthlink.net), November 12, 2001.

Animal IQ is different than human IQ, but/just as variable. Dumb o nes and smart ones. Its too bad we're not capable of devising an adequate test for the job. Only people that are around them are capable of making any reasonable "ball park" judgement on each individual of a certain specie. It is my humble opnion that cows have an emotional IQ which is the cental feature of their IQ. Their olfactory (smell) sense is highly refined, however is is a seperate and distinct faculity, equally capable of judgement calls.

-- susan norfolk/wy (susan_norfolk@yahoo.com), November 12, 2001.


Ok, here's my story to contribute: One day I was working on a car in the backyard. Out front of the mobile home, a cat fight started. There was this cat that had been dumped at our place- was a very territorial female (she sprayed my tires and the screen door almost daily for a while- and she was certainly a emale, she had 3 litters of kittens, later on). At any rate, the cat fight involved my neutered male cat and that territorial female. The female won. I ran around the house, my two mutt dogs in tow to see what the heck was going on. My poor cat was lying in the driveway- knocked unconsious. My dogs passed me, ran down the drive and stopped to "check" on my cat then took off after the offending female. Now, my dogs arent cat chasers. My male cat and they have been together the whole of their lives. But on that day, those two dogs defended, and checked on their buddy. Then chased that cat until everyone was safe (my cat recovered in a matter of minutes- I believe he twisted the wrong way or something during the fight, because he has done the unconsious thing once since when I was getting him to chase a string). OK, one more. When I was three, I fell down a flight of cement stairs leading to the back yard- full flight of stairs. I happened to be carrying a box of toys, so that padded my fall for the most part. When I hity dirt, I started wailing. There happened to be an ancient apple tree in the backyard- which was hollow. In that apple tree, a mama squirrel had a litter of babies. When I hit, that mama squirrel climbed out of the tree, over to me and within a foot of me, checking to see if I was ok. My parents, by then had heard me, and dashed out the back door to see the squirrel. That squirrel looked at them, looked at me, then went back to 'her' tree- I was, apparently, in safe hands.

-- Kevin in NC (Vantravlrs@aol.com), November 12, 2001.

Kevin-yours is a story for animal planet-because it's so incredible you couldn't have possibly made it up! "Mothers react" Life is grand. Truly.

-- Kathy (catfish201@hotmail.com), November 12, 2001.

My cat and dog both female 8, and 9years of age loved each other. When I first bought my homestead it was off the grid, and I left my prissy cat at my house in town with my mother and took my tom- boy labordor with me to "ruff" it if you will. They spent all of six months apart. One weekend I took my dog into town and bathed her she was so exicted to be home, and bathed and she barked! Out from the back bedroom flew my cat, there was a dog in the house, and she was going to kill it! They came face to face kissing and crying. The poor cat shuddering from the water on the dogs coat, and from joy! It was hilarious to say the least. They left me in a hous fire last year, and they are layed side by side in the yard. what a hole they left!

-- Sherrie R Clifton (BryrPatch35@aol.com), November 12, 2001.

You need some natural living experiences instead of books on the subject. Lots of them. Then you wouldn't ask such dumb questions.

-- Frances Burt (fsburt@msn.com), November 12, 2001.

My dogs seem to think faster than I do sometimes...*sigh*...but at least it isn't always in the cause of mischief or biscuit-grabbing. My Cocker mix, Zachary, is a runner. (That's why I found him in the pound. The woman he belonged to had kids that left the gate unlatched, and every chance he got, Zachary would dash out for a tour of the neighborhood.) So when I stepped in a hole, turned my ankle, landed flat on the ground and lost my grip on his leash one morning, I figured he'd be off and away before I could get back on my feet. The worst part was, there was a schoolbus rumbling down the road toward us, and I was scared to death that he was going to run right it front of it and...well, you know. But he surprised me. Stopped in his tracks, trotted back to where I was sprawled on the ground and started licking my face. I was almost in tears...and not just because my darned ankle hurt, either.

-- Christine (cytrowbridge@zianet.com), November 12, 2001.


I know Border Collies can count. I had 2 litters of pups this last spring, 2 days apart. I have a big backroom, and Baby was on one side and Lu was on the other. They had big pads to lay on with their pups, no boxes or dividers or anything. Well, Lu had 10 and Baby had 8, and since all my dogs are like a big family, take care of each others pups, etc, I gave one of Lu's to Baby to nurse. It had a spot on it's head and I take pics of all of them so I knew which was which.

Well, every single day, Lu would walk over and take one of Baby's pups back to her blanket. It wasn't always her pup, just a pup. Beats all I've ever seen. They can think and they suprise me every day.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), November 13, 2001.


Got a video from the library a few months ago about just this subject, and one of the stories on it, related by a vet, was about a childhood experience he had. He and his brothers, when young boys, had been working in the fields, picking beans or something. One boy had a bike, and the rest rode in the family's old pickup. The oldest brother drove the pickup toward home with two of the brothers, while the younger one rode the middle brother's bike home. The bike rider left a bit before the others. As the ones in the truck were riding down the road, their dog jumped out of the back of the truck, and started running down the road, barking and biting at the tires. They drove on, thinking the dog was just being a dog. It was extremely dusty and windy that day, so visibility was poor. The dog persisted, getting more and more frantic, until she finally ran in front of the pickup, and they ran over her. When the boys stopped the pickup to check on the dog, she was dead, but up front of them in the road was their brother, who had ridden ahead on the bike. He had gotten the bike tire caught in a rut in the road, fallen and was injured. If they had continued down the road just a wee bit more, they would have hit him. It was as if the dog knew, but how could she? She had never done this type of thing before, but saved the boys' life. I see the gears grinding in my animals all the time, so I KNOW they think and reason. Of course, some are not as bright as others! Jan

-- Jan in CO (Janice12@aol.com), November 13, 2001.

I had a neutered tom cat about 10 years old. This tom cat learned how to open the screen door, from the OUTSIDE! He learned to tap on the corner of the door and make it bounce open. He would make it bounce until it was open enough for him to put his paw inside and open the door!! One day I brought home a pregnant cat. She had 3 kittens and died about a week later. Well I was willing to get up 2 - 3 times a night to feed the babies, and I tried stimulating their anus' with a dry sponge (this is usually where the mother licks them with her rough tongue to make them defacate) The sponge wasn't working very well. This old tom cat jumped into the box with the kittens. At first I was afraid he was going to kill them because I spent too much time with them and he was very jealous, but danged if he didn't start licking those babies to beat the band. He took over all their cleaning needs and "allowd" me feed them!!

I also have a golden retreiver who has learned how to "nose open" the latch on the chain-link fence gate -- I now have to shut it with a clasp hook

-- MissJudi (jselig@clemson.edu), November 13, 2001.


I don't have a story to relate of my own, but my uncle would, if he were here.

Seems he had a dog, one of those indeterminate 'foofoo' breed in-door dog breeds that followed him incessantly, even hung around when watching tv. One time, watching the classic Ritz cracker commercial, my uncle raised a Ritz cracker he was eating and showed it to the dog.

"Good cracker" he said to the dog. My uncle swears that dog nodded his head and smiled at him. Couldn't tell him that his dog couldn't reason.

-- j.r. guerra (jrguerra@boultinghousesimpson.com), November 13, 2001.


TO: Cheryl in KS, Ardie/WI, Rebekah, Pam, jz, Bren, julie f., Kathy, Carole, susan norfolk/wy, Kevin in NC, Sherrie R Clifton, Christine, Cindy in KY, Jan in CO, MissJudi, j.r. guerra - THANK YOU!!

I can easily jump right in with the rest of you and your stories as a owner myself of 2 dogs,2 cats,hamster,and a goldfish. But at the same time that is what I am trying to figure out,is recognizing a human or another animal thinking or just natural awareness that another is nearby on their part? There is a web site about a scientist that does testing with mirrors and studies to see if they recognize themselves and their actions in the mirrors and the only animal to score high is the chimpanzee. He says that dog and cats do not seem to know that it themselves looking in the mirrors. I just find the subject interesting especially when I watched the PBS shows about the elephants. Just amazing!

TO: Frances Burt, Thank you and I love you! I just wish I had your insightfulness towards other people and their lifestyles.

-- TomK(mich) (tjk@cac.net), November 13, 2001.


I had a horse once that would unplug the electric fence -- the charger was plugged in inside his paddock.

On the other hand, I have goats who, having given themselves severe belly-aches by overeating grain, still rush for the grain bin if they happen to find themselves unrestrained for a minute in the milking area. They are very clever at getting themselves *into* trouble, and *not* very clever about getting out of it!

I believe animals can think to some extent, but they aren't always wise.

-- Kathleen Sanderson (stonycft@worldpath.net), November 13, 2001.


Our "human" attributes can all, on a scientific lavel, be boiled down to reactions to outside stimuli and internal chemical changes, so I'm not so sure that the difference between human "thought" and animal "reactions" isn't purely based on the fact that we can subjectively analyze our own actions and not those of any thing (or anbody, for that matter) else's.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), November 13, 2001.

I have 4 dogs-two very bright and two not-so-bright. The two bright ones can open doors (one can open the cellar door and the other the porch door), and have a fairly advanced vocabulary, we have to spell words around them o-u-t-s-i-d-e. Even the not-so-bright beagle knows what "chicken" and "egg" is--I have a bad habit of setting eggs down and forgetting them he'll follow behind me and eat the eggs he teases to come outside with me if I say I'm going to gather eggs. I also have 3 cats, they're fed on the sideboard in the kitchen because the dogs will eat their food if I put it on the floor, well, if the dish is empty they will start taking things out of a basket and drop them, one by one, onto the floor until someone fills the dish.

Even my female hamster knows how to get apple slices from me. She'll hang on the side of her wire cage and look pathetic until I bring her the apple. The male hamster doesn't do anything like that.

I think animals can think, and do a degree reason, but it's not the same type of intelligence that we as human beans have.

Stacy in NY

-- Stacy (KincoraFarm@aol.com), November 13, 2001.


Loved Staceys last post. You're absolutely right Stacey, and animals are Smarter! The stories were great, and I can relate to almost all of them-did I ever tell you about my parraket......................

-- Kathy (catfish201@hotmail.com), November 13, 2001.

Gracie our pig bull[ pitbull] got in trouble once for eating a candy bar left on the table[ caught her eating it].well once in a while candy would turn up missing but figured one of the kids was eating it [couldnt figure out were they were stashing the wrapers though]one day I left a foil chocolate cat on the table went to answer the phone and when I came back it was gone. No kids home. Drove me nuts all day. That evening Gracie threw up the foil wraper. She new she would get in trouble if I found a torn up wraper[ like the last time] so she would eat ALL the evidence. Animals have alot more reasoning power then most people give them credit for.

-- kathy h (ckhart55@earthlink.net), November 13, 2001.

Something that you said made me think some more, Tom.

Does one (human or animal) have to possess the ability to Think in order to create humor? I mean, intentional humor.

I have always thought that my dogs could think perfectly well -- in obedience class, my dog knew that the command to 'Finish' always came approximately 10 seconds after the come-on-call (with sit). In the arena she somewhat embarrassed me by Finishing (to heel) before the judge called for it. She knew that it was what came next, and had waited the appropriate length of time. When I asked her to Finish anyway, she got up again, dutifully walked around me in a circle and sat again. (darn near killed the judge with that one he was laughing so hard)

She also saw no reason why, once she had gone over the hurdle to retrieve the dumb-bell thrown over it, that she shouldn't just run AROUND the hurdle coming back (instead of over again) -- it was easier.

However, what really made me believe that thinking was going on was when she encountered her reflection in a floor length mirror. The first time, she was surprised, went stiff legged, and gave it a threatening 'Warf!!' It was hilarious to see this little puppy doing this and I laughed. She was very surprised that I didn't back her up on it, then poked the glass with her nose. She checked it out very carefully, then apparently lost interest.

However, she would often run down the hall to the mirror, and repeat this performance all over again -- but now she would check over her shoulder to make sure that I had followed her and seen her performance, because it was no longer a warning bark, and she would be waving her tail happily. She was making a joke, a 'funny-always' in her opinion, and wanted to make sure that I too was appreciating it.

So, does an animal have to think in order to understand humor? I was listening to a man on NPR who was talking about the nature of laughter and what is the mechanism that causes us to laugh. He didn't come to any definitive conclusions, because it is a very ephemeral thing, similar to the thought process. He finally came down to trying to analyze tickling and laughter and found that all he had to do was threaten to tickle his small son in order to elicit nearly hysterical giggling and laughing as the child merely THOUGHT about being tickled, without actually being touched.

Both are thinking about something in the abstract, in my opinion.

If you can also find a book by Fara Shimbo, printed by Tercel Press, about ferrets as pets, she has a rather interesting section devoted to the learning and reasoning processes of ferrets from experiments that she conducted with her pets. (it's also just a very good care book for ferrets too)

-- julie f. (rumplefrogskin@excite.com), November 13, 2001.


One of the dog training books that I have read told of a woman who had not only taught her dog to spell, but had taught him to type(!) on a highly modified typewriter. She would dictate, and the dog would spell out what she had said, merely responding to her words with appropriate action, a more complicated and demanding version of basic command and response. She would have demos and the such for interested parties, but was mainly interested in the process as a scientist, finding out how much she could teach this (very smart) dog. One day, when the dog was feeling "blue" it decided that it didn't want to train. It refused to get up in the seat, no matter what the prompting, and generally made a big fuss about the whole deal. Finally the flustered dog jumped up into the seat and, without the researcher saying a word, typed a string of letters that basically said BAD DOG, with some letter and word repetition, which was common in the dog's spelling. Appearently the dog had not only learned to break down human speech and spell it out (a tough, but by no means unique skill) but had also developed the understanding of the abstract nature of language and the fact that the words actually MEANT something, and what words meant what, not to mention the idea that the dog knew it could communicate back in a two-way manner. Took me a few days to get over that story.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), November 14, 2001.

I am an animal and I think, or at least I think I think. Interesting how we tend to separate ourselves.

Animal - Vegetable - Mineral - Human

-- lurkylu (lurkylu@yahoo.com), November 16, 2001.


I liked lurkylu's answer, too. I have seen some animals do some pretty good things. I also think many of us don't want to think they think because we eat them. To quote Dennis Leary, "We only eat the ugly ones." My cow story: We used to have a Jersey (I think they are the stubbornest/smartest) that had a stub horn. She was tied next to a broken water cup where the cup slid down to the floor, and the paddle was broken off. She figured out how to push the button with her horn to fill the bowl, then drink from the bowl. I find problem solving and other behavior in different animals a lot, but I tend to eat the ones that get too smart. They are just dangerous....Call it survival of the fittest, I guess. Maybe that's why cows tend to stay in herds and 'dumbed down'; predators make easy cleanup of the loners and thinkers who stray and try to 'homestead' on the savannah.

-- Dan (dconine@dotnet.com), November 20, 2001.

Dan, that's right. People sometimes talk about how stupid sheep are, but the fact is there's a technical term for independent, free- thinking, intelligent sheep. It's "mutton".

-- Don Armstrong (from Australia) (darmst@yahoo.com.au), November 21, 2001.

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