Yesterday afternoon I was at a family owned retail store at about the time that school let out. The owners wife was there, a stout woman about 30, but with numerous large tatoos on her arms and calves. Two children arrived still with their back packs, a boy about 10 and a girl about7; I do not know what transpired, my attention was elsewhere. I heard the girl yell NO and she ran out of the store and accrost the street, as she turned to look back the stout woman caught her by the hair and drug the girl out of site around a building cornor. I was talking with the owner and a clerk, I pointed out the action, the owner immediantly went stop the incident. Later the clerk told me it was the owners wife and daughter. All three returned a couple of minutes later, the girl whimpering softly, I did not see or hear anything that would indicate striking or slaping. I believe the girl would be in full tears if such would have happen. My question is this child abuse that needs immediant attention and reporting, or was it a moment of bad judgement on the mothers part. I have never seen these people before and am new to this small community; I only saw a few seconds at the beginning; what is your opnion?

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), November 09, 2001

Answers

Mitch! As an ex-cop those words make me boilin mad! I've encountered that TOO MANY TIMES in the past. It's enought to make my blood boil!! As you said we don't know what transpired but apparently she wasn't hugging the child! In my opinion--AND I'M RIGHT--the action that you did witness sure wasn't the love of a mother being displayed in public. I don't know what I'd do but probably turn her in to the authorities. I also know sometimes the proper authorities are not "proper" at times. The woman needs help, it seems to me.

Children are precious gifts from Almighty God and we will be held accountable for how we treat them. Thank God that you were/are concerned enought to post this very troubling subject here. "Bad things happen when good people do nothing". Thanks for the dose of reality--we all need that! Old hoot. Matt.24:44

-- old hoot gibson (hoot@pcinetwork.com), November 09, 2001.

When I see these types if incidents happen in public, I always wonder what the poor kids have to endure in private?

-- Melissa (me@home.net), November 09, 2001.

One time I was at the grocery store, and a woman pulled in beside me. She had 2 small children, one a baby in a car seat, and the other about 2 years old. I was unloading groceries and not really paying much attention, but when I looked up she was gone, the kids still in the car and the car was running!!! The little boy then moved to the front and started acting like he was steering the car. the doors were locked. I was just steming mad by this time. I told my daughters to keep an eye out and I ran across the parking lot and called the police department! I felt this was very serious, but it took me a few minutes to convince these people that maybe they should come and check out the situation. I went back to the car and waited until they came, as I left I saw the mother coming back to the car. I don't know what transpired after that but I was appalled that anyone would do such a horrible thing. It was a warm day, and with the car running who knows what could have happened.

On the flip side, I once put my 4 kids(they were probably from 4 to 10) in the car at Krogers, the windows were down, and walked one car away to put my buggy in one of those little racks, and had an elderly man tell me not to leave my kids by themselves in the car!! I was really glad to see that he was concerned and explained to him that my car was the next one down (about 12 feet away) and I was just putting the buggy in the rack. He said he too had seen people just leave their kids in the car and go shopping. So I guess it is common??

It is so hard to know what to do in these situations. If I feel a child is in serious danger I speak up. If I see some young woman who looks very harried and aggravated, I try to strike up a conversation and maybe drop a few tips or hints. Usually you can see a noticeable difference in the attitude of the mother, more relaxed, especially if you relate an incident that happened to you or a friend. Mothers often feel isolated and don't have anything to compare their children's behaviour too. When they find out that all kids go through these times, they often relax a little.

Sorry Mitch, a little off topic I know!!!!!

-- Melissa (me@home.net), November 09, 2001.

Mitch, I would probably report this to the Child Welfare Agency. Let the authorities investigate. This does happen frequently in our town. Even if it turns out to be like you said, "poor judgement" and nothing else, at least the parents may think twice about this the next time. I worked two years at a afterschool drop-in center for kids and had to report several incidences during that time.

-- Jean (jat@ncis.net), November 09, 2001.

Kids who are spanked and abused on a frequent basis learn to hold in the tears and not cry. Speaking from experience...

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), November 09, 2001.

It truly does not matter if what you witnessed was a sample of ongoing abuse or a mother temporarily out of control. Not all things are as they seem. The point is, that either way, it would be a blessing for this family if you did report what you saw. If mother is abusing the child/children, then she and they need help..if mother lost control, she and they need help.....so often folks perceive the social service folks as the "enemy"...I have had numerous foster children and used to work with abused kids in St. Louis..if more folks were even a TAD concerned, most of these tragedies would be resolved..Kudos to you Mitch for being concerned..you have a loving heart!

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), November 09, 2001.

I completely disagree with the tenor of the others who have posted.

You have almost no information to go on and would act on presumption:

"I heard the girl yell NO and she ran out of the store and accrost the street, as she turned to look back the stout woman caught her by the hair and drug the girl out of site around a building cornor. I was talking with the owner and a clerk, I pointed out the action, the owner immediantly went stop the incident. Later the clerk told me it was the owners wife and daughter. All three returned a couple of minutes later, the girl whimpering softly, I did not see or hear anything that would indicate striking or slaping".

WHERE do you see abuse? What constitutes abuse? The mother being "stout" and having "tatoos" on her arms is utterly irrelvant but helps form your presumptions. If my kid ran out into the street in harms way and I rushed out to rescue I might very well drag his light body by the hair of his head - no lasting physical harm done. And if I were to discipline my child by spanking I might well take him or her around the corner of the building to spare other the displeasure of the protests and wailing if it came to that (I have had to do this to prevent disruption of a church service and EVERYBODY is grateful).

I strongly fear the rampant undercutting of parental authority that has become popular in our current society and is evidenced in the posts here. We are RARELY in a situation where we can interpret the motives of parents as they discipline their children. Well intentioned folks can intrude and do real harm.

-- charles (clb@dixienet.com), November 09, 2001.

While I agree it is difficult to really know for sure what is going on, most discerning adults can usually follow the clues.

Now if you pull your child out of church service, and spank his bottom for disruption, probably the people around know you well enough to discern the fact that you want what is best for the child.

But if you see someone in public who appears to go beyond what would be considered normal behaviour (and grabbing a child by the hair would not be considered normal to me!) you can get the idea that something isn't right.

The truly sad thing about child abuse, is the adults who know about it and do NOTHING, trust me the kids do not forget that absolutely no one stood up for them!

-- Melissa (me@home.net), November 09, 2001.

because the average person in an instance such as quoted by Mitch would NOT have any idea of what has happened, is exactly why it should be reported. Professionals would speak with the family and the children..perhaps mom is overwhelmed, perhaps the kids are out of contol, perhaps the child is a little brat who just kicked her mom, ran out of the store and into the street..my point was and still IS that it doesn't matter..if any adult, witnessing an incident where they have a question of abuse does not follow up on it, then for the child who is being abused, there is no hope. My father was the worst child abuser for years and years..on so many occasions, I cannot count, in public, both my brother and I were physically assaulted by him..all those "nice" folks did 100% of nothing...because they did not want to undermine my father's authority. That is how things were in the 50s here.A single telephone call to the authorities would have taken off years and years of abuse from us and hopefully, given my father the help he obviously needed. Pulling a small child by the hair is not "normal "behavior...either mom is stressed and needs help or the child needs help.....parents do not have the authority to be out of control.

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), November 09, 2001.

In an attempt to clairify my original post; the mother had 6 or more 6 to8 inch tatoos, a beerbelly, the sleves of her blouse were torn away, a large motorcycle belt buckle, a general "white trash" appearance. The girl ran as if she had seen a snake with the mother in full running pursute. The girl was already accross the street when the mother caught up to her, this was not a rescue a child from the street action, the street is located in a slow, lazy area with minimum traffic. The childs head was pulled allmost sideways from the mothers grasp.

No, I am not going to file a police report. Yes, I am going to alert the people at her school, they have contact with her on a daily basis and the experience to watch for abuse. I started school in the 50,s; getting slaped in public was thought of as "he diserved it"; what was not seen in public was at age 10, my mother pinning me to the floor and beating me with a glass coke bottle. My mother was from a culture where whoever could cuss the loudest, stomp the hardest, beat the most was in control. None of my relatives had the courage to say anything aganist her, one uncle spoke one time and she chased him out of the house with a butcher knife. She died a few years back, no one attended her funeral, including me.....

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), November 10, 2001.

I don't blame you for not going to that funeral; I wish she could have once seen how things were supposed to be, and how much better they are when love is predominant in a home, not force. I thank you for being concerned for society's children and not ignoring what happened because it was "none of your business". More of us could do the same.

-- Christine in OK (cljford@aol.com), November 10, 2001.