Dead steer??

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We found one of our steer dead yesterday for no apparent reason. We had seen him the day before and he looked fine. He was 9 months old, growing well and did not appear sick at all. We could not find any places on him where he may have been attacked or shot. He was in the same pasture with the rest of the cattle including our very calm bull. Could the bull maybe have hurt him? This is really puzzling us, any ideas?

-- Ugly (here@home.com), November 07, 2001

Answers

could have it been snakebit ?

-- bill van fossan (van37725@yahoo.com), November 07, 2001.

Yes the bull could have done it. Are any of your cows in heat? Have you checked with the vet? Our neighbor had two Black Angus bulls, that had been together for 5 years. All of sudden, one broke the others neck. A bull in with cows in season is unpredictable at best.

-- Rickstir (rpowell@email.ccis.edu), November 07, 2001.

I doubt it would have been snake bit this time of year - it's too cold here! Besides, I don't think we have any poisonous snakes around here. Would the steer, who was probably around 600 - 700# have been a threat to the bull? We did see a little blood coming out of it's nose but that is the only sign of anything we saw.

-- ugly (here@home.com), November 07, 2001.

I have more sheep experience, than cows, but wonder if it wasn't a twisted gut. No preliminary signs, just sudden death. Happened to a sheep once. We did autopsy her, which showed it. The bloody nasal discharge is, I believe a post mortem sympton, not necessarily a sign of what he died from.Sorry about your loss. We had to have a backhoe come and bury our old Jersey last year...23 years old!

-- Kate henderson (kate@sheepyvalley.com), November 07, 2001.

Hi, Ugly, bloat is a possibility, but it's kind of obvious if that was the problem. But blood in the nose might mean internal injuries, and that could be the bull. I'd look again for a bullet hole, though to be sure. You could collect on your insurance if someone shot him. It can be a pretty small hole, sometimes.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), November 07, 2001.


Is there any acorns or wilted cherry branches around?

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), November 07, 2001.

are acorns dangerous to cows??/

-- Don Amon (peacelane@certainty.net), November 07, 2001.

Acorns??

My dexters love acorns. They get under the oak trees and sound like they're eating rocks when they're crunching on acorns. Turkeys love them too. Don't think they're any problem.

-- bruce (rural@inebraska.com), November 07, 2001.


A rancher with cattle picked up a Border Collie puppy here yesterday evening, and said he just lost two cows to acorns. I didn't know that either. He said his was White Oak, said my big trees were Red Oak and didn't know if that made a difference. Worries me now. He said if after a big wind or storm and they all come off at once, it can kill them if they eat them. Bummer.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), November 08, 2001.

Toxicity of oak:

White Oak

Black Oak

Red Oak/Canadian

Red Oak

Western Poison Oak

-- ~Rogo (rogo2020@yahoo.com), November 08, 2001.


Oh Geeeez,

I'm putting Ginger in the other pasture at first light. We have the 2 big trees in front of the house, but it can hang over the pasture fence, it's so large. Thank you Rogo.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), November 08, 2001.


Thank you all for the info. We have literally tons of oak here. Never knew that was a danger! And yes, the cattle have access to the oak in almost every pasture. We were trying to hold off feeding them hay this year as long as we could, we usually start feeding them before now. So, maybe that was the problem. We do have deer hunters on our property, some we invite, some we don't, so that is another possibility too since we also have tons of deer!!!! This was an angus steer though and it would be hard to mistake him for a deer. We looked him over pretty good before calling the "Dead wagon" and couldn't find anything but he had a pretty heavy winter coat.

-- ugly (here@home.com), November 08, 2001.

I watched a steer butchered once that had died of acorn bloat. Really awesome.......it was like all the water in the animal's system had gathered into the abdominal cavity and when he opened that sucker up, I swear about a hundred gallons of water came rushing out.

I used to be concerned about my Dexters in the Fall too, cuz their Fall pastures up by the buildings were full of oaks, (I pretty sure the leaves can be toxic too) but out of perhaps a hundred animals, none ever got sick. I have no idea if Dexters are less susceptible to the problem than other breeds, but I wouldnt be surprised; they are known to be more interested in browse (like goats) than other breeds, so perhaps their systems are more accommodating. Additionally, I suspect that the reason they had no problems is because they weren't put on oak pasture suddenly,so that their systems had time to slowly adjust to the falling leaves, and that they also had excellent pasture grasses and/or hay available at all times as well.

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), November 08, 2001.


We also have come to the conclusion that the reason we have no problems with the goats and acorns, or tallow trees or anything else on the list of dreaded plants we have out here in the national forest, is because they go out to graze, browse with a full tummy. We simply don't put off putting out hay, they wouldn't eat it if they didn't need it. Spring and summer I may add a bale of hay to the feeder weekly, this time of the year its maybe twice a week, come winter its daily. Can't believe there is to much nutrition left out in the pastures and woods. Vicki

-- Vicki McGaugh (vickilonesomedoe@hotmail.com), November 08, 2001.

Just one other thing to look at. The steer didn't lay down on a little hummock or swale so that he couldn't get up did he? It only takes 20 minutes for an animal to die from the pressure in the rumen if they lay down in such a way they can't eructate properly and can't get themselves repositioned. Have had it happen several times over the years myself and have seen it happen to others. Just a thought. All you'll see is a dead animal, bloated and with a little blood at the nose sometimes.

-- Sandra Nelson (Magin@starband.net), November 08, 2001.


Our cows and goats get alfalfa am and pm too, so that is a plus. I looked out there and every fence line had Oak. So's there no getting away from them here. We give the cow as much alfalfa as she wants, and then she wanders out on her own. We still have allot of green grass too.

-- Cindy in KY (solidrockranch@msn.com), November 08, 2001.

Ask your vet if there has been any blackleg in your area. It is one of those cases of healthy one day, dead the next.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), November 09, 2001.

Doesn't Blackleg happen when they are growing quickly? Usually in animals that are quick to grow and doing great. Also....when an animal does have Blackleg it bloats extremely fast after death! My husband saw a necropsy of a bunch of cattle suspected of that and when the vet cut into them they exploded! The vet said that the bacteria or whatever the blackleg is makes them do that in less than 24 hours. YUCK! By the by...Blackleg is cheap and easy to vaccinate for!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), November 10, 2001.

Do you have buckeyes in your area? They are terribly poisonous to cattle as well as acorns. If not poisoning, my guess would be twisted gut, no outward signs without a post mortem exam.

-- Annie Miller in SE OH (annie@1st.net), November 11, 2001.

All of our cattle are vaccinated for blackleg. We do not have buckeyes here and we still have some green grass so it is not like we were deliberately starving them! I just feel like he bloated. We have had cattle in this area for 7 years and have never had any problem with the acorns or oak before and I will say that the deer love acorns. Doesn't seem to hurt them any!

-- ugly (here@home.com), November 13, 2001.

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