Asked this on another post, but thought that I'd throw it out here for a wider answer base. If the PO irradiates the mail, will it not kill seeds and stuff sent through the mail? If so, won't a note saying "LIVE SEEDS - DO NOT IRRADIATE" just be ignored, or seen as a possible indication that the contents deserve closer scrutiny? What about food products sent through the mail? Film? Floppy disks? Chicks? And so on. Anybody out there know anything about this sort of thing (calling all hermit physicists!).

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), October 25, 2001

Answers

One thing I know at the moment is that anthrax is one of the toughest bacteria - which is why it's a weapon of choice for bacteriological warfare. Irradiation ain't going to kill it. Leaving alone for decades at a stretch in the soil won't help either. Only thing that helps is exposure for several days to daylight (or UV?). Also, the particular strain they're using is resistant to many antibiotics, and mechanically it's been milled into a very fine powder - as someone I respect a lot (Jerry Pournelle at www.jerrypournelle.com) says, if this was a test, it was a successful one - they've proven what to do in the future.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), October 25, 2001.

P.S. Another thing I've heard is that it helps if you boil your mail for thirty minutes before opening. Not guaranteed to destroy anthrax, but it does destroy a lot of other worries.

-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), October 25, 2001.

From what I have read, the PO does not have plans to irradiate all U.S. mail, just that going to sensitive centers, such as Washington, DC and other selected areas, such as Manhattan. My understanding is it would kill all organisms, including Anthrax. In theory, if you would irradiate a human corpse and put it in an airtight container,it would stay preserved forever.

The PO may have to create a separate method of shipment for things like seeds. Wouldn't be that difficult, mostly separate packaging and handling.

If the U.S. wants to make a dent in the drug problem, put out then neither confirm nor deny rumors traces of Anthrax have been found in cocaine and heroin coming across the borders.

-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), October 25, 2001.

On NPR they were talking about this yesterday or the day before. They said that this only does the OUTSIDE of the mail, can't reach the interior, because they were talking about using ultra violet light, not a harsh radiation. This would be for the protection of mail handlers.

As for what Don said, I haven't heard that the anthrax found has been resistant to antibiotics at all. So far, anything they've come up with can be killed with plain old penicillin. However, at least the one batch found in the Senate office building mailing was milled very fine and was treated to be anti-static, so that it would spread in the air much easier than it could have normally. Only three countries are known to be able to do this treatment, the US, Russian, and Iran.

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), October 26, 2001.

Irradiation uses radiant energy (electrons, gamma rays, or x-rays). The most common source of ionizing energy is in the form of gamma rays (or photons) which pass through the encapsulation and treat the food/product. Next is the Electron Beam Linear Accelerator, (E-beam) Accelerators which work on the same principle as a television tube. Then an x-ray source. All are similar to the energy we receive from the Sun, only higher intensity.

The energy used in food irradiation is not great enough to cause food to become radioactive. During irradiation, energy passes through food much like a ray of light passes through a window. This energy destroys most of the bacteria that can cause disease, yet allows food to retain its high quality. The effects of treatment by e-beam, gamma rays, or x-rays are identical. Use of one method or another is based upon product size, facility size, anticipated throughput, and other factors. (Products/boxes up to 15" may be treated.)

Most spices and many other food product, including baby formula, are currently treated.

-- Joe (CactusJoe001@AOL.com), October 26, 2001.

Rumors abound in this area. You heard this, I heard that. I don't think anyone knows it all. I monitor the cable tv system for a small private college. I have had the news channels on since 911. I would guess that its about 75 - 25 for information saying that most of the strains are very primative, not milled particularly small, and respond to a variety of antibiotics. Sometimes just the opposite is said. Congressional members giving their scientific opinions, you can take that with a grain of salt. Did somebody say boil your mail? Might get rid of germs, but it will get rid of the ink too. I am going to try and boil the phone bill tonight, if I can't read it do I have to pay it????

-- Rickstir (rpowell@email.ccis.edu), October 26, 2001.

I think that was Don's point(gets rid of ink). :o) Maybe we can boil the bills. I have been reading on this, and there are many different reports. One had the packages going in a room where they would take a radioactive material out of water or something. Does not sound like microwave. I guess it depends on what method they use. I still have not heard what either type will do to seeds. If it kills living organisms, it will probably kill seeds, but then again, if they grow- will they grow in a mutated form? Also, if only major hubs are using irradiation, that would include LOTS of mail. Before the chick shipping crisis, I had chicks from down south that were stuck at a hub for a day (Indianapolis?) somewhere.. then they went to Omaha, etc. So, I would assume our mail will go through these major population areas as well. Maybe they will mark it with a glowing face or something, so it does not get irradiated at every hub. :o)

-- notnow (notnow05@yahoo.com), October 26, 2001.

ON A LIGHTER NOTE...IF THEY DO IRRADIATE THE MAIL WITH GAMMA RAYS.ALL YOU GOLFERS OUT THERE SHOULD MAIL YOUR GOLF BALLS TO YOURSELVES.THE GAMMA RAYS MAKE YOUR GOLF BALLS GO FARTHER.BUT COMMERCIAL ONES ARE ALL STAMPED SO YOU WOULD BE FOUND OUT. BUT THOSE GOLFERS TIRED OF LOSING.THIS CAN ADD ABOUT 20 YARDS TO YOUR DRIVE.HEY,GIVE THAT FRIEND THATS BEATEN YOU FOR YEARS A RUN FOR THE MONEY. HOPE NO ONE FINDS MY POST OFFENSIVE...I`M JUST TRYING TO LIGHTEN THINGS UP WITH WHATS ON EVERYONES MIND.BUT IT WORKS AS WELL AND IS ONE OF THE RELATIVELY UNKNOWN PLUSES FROM IRRADIATION.

CORDWOODGUY

-- CORDWOODGUY (coordwoodguy@n2teaching.com), October 26, 2001.

Hi Soni, I just checked on the internet for information about irradiation for the mail. I betcha that you are talking about that new message out from MSNBC. When the information came up it gave a whole little video about it. It discusses why they might use it, but that it is way too expensive to use yet. It said that the machine needed costs between 3 and 6 million dollars a piece. YIKES! They would have to have lots of them to cover each mail handling place. They haven't begun doing it yet. That made me feel better since I just mailed a bunch of seeds in that seed swap! SHEW!

-- Nan (davidl41@ipa.net), October 26, 2001.

I for one am glad that I have been saving my seeds. This winter my garden is all from my own seeds with great succes. And we thought y2k would be difficult! Maybe THAT was a test! Ada

-- Aagje Franken (Backyardy2k@aol.com), October 26, 2001.

Boil my mail no NO NO!!

Why today I received not one but TWO credit card thingy's.. So if I boiled them I wouldn't be able to get some more gold & platinum!!!! Lets see how many cards have I got now??? 50 - 60 ????

submitted with a small chuckle-----thanks Don [we need more chuckles these days]

-- Jim-mi (hartalteng@voyager.net), October 26, 2001.

I thought the irradiation was due to begin at the major centers(?) on November 1st?? I will try to find where I read that.

-- notnow (notnow05@yahoo.com), October 26, 2001.