Are the rich all that great?

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Rush Limbaugh, on the days I bother to tune in, likes to extoll the virtues of the wealthy and tell us how great they are for this country. Yet a recent example of what happens when people with money adjust their habits in the short term belies his argument. It seems that plane ridership and pleasure trips are momentarily in a downward spiral. The resulting drop in demand had lowered gasoline prices for all of us. I am sure their are other things on the homestead that would come down in price if people of wealth weren't out there buying so much of it. So I ask, are the rich all that great?

-- fred (fred@mddc.com), October 22, 2001

Answers

Fred, I'd be curious to learn how you define "rich" in terms of economic wealth. In any event, here are some things which are generally true for you to consider.

The poor do not create jobs; the rich do. The poor do not contribute tax dollars to the economy; the rich do. The poor do not buy as much as the rich so they do not create the need for more goods and services in great numbers; the rich do. I those ways, we need what you describe as the "rich" more than we need the poor. I don't know that it makes them "great," but it sure makes them necessary.

Again, depending on your definition, I doubt the rich are necessarily postponing any pleasure trips or spending on things like that. The few dollars (relatively) which that represents would not be enough to alter plans. Gas prices are down for two reasons. Less gas is being purchased now as is the case every year at this time and travel is down subsequent to 9-11 further reducing demand. Well, when demand falls and supply remains constant then prices drop. If supply increases when demand drops prices drop even further. It's not too tough to figure.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), October 22, 2001.


Oh, Fred... wake up and smell the coffee.

The oil price drop is due to a worldwide recession that is good for gasoline prices but bad for workers.

More than 1 million American jobs have been lost already. More to come.

If you actually think that the price of gasoline dropped solely because of a lower demand for airline travel, you'll believe anything.

Where did you pick up that class warfare attitude anyway?

-- walt (longyear@shentel.net), October 22, 2001.


I think you might have misconstrued the meaning of rich. I am not "rich," but I do fly on occasion. So do my retired military friends, and they are FAR from rich, and do not get a discount.

Corporations are cutting back on flying because the economy is in flux. That affects the situation as well.

What Rush means by 'rich' is people who WORK and EMPLOY others. You can't tax the profits out of people who own businesses and have the economy work well. I know this because my husband is self employed, and we pay more than 50% of his income to the government in taxes. Then, if you take out all we pay in insurance (try finding THAT at a reasonable price if you are self employed), and what we have left is NOT what I call rich.

Rose

-- Rose (open_rose@hotmail.com), October 22, 2001.


I have been almost poor and I have been almost rich. Somehow I am now somewhere in the middle. I can say from experience that rich is a darn sight better than poor. But I know what you are saying. Pick up trucks for instance. If the city people would quit buying them, then the manufactures would quit making them so fancy and then we might be able to afford to trade off our 81 chevy.

-- Belle (gardenbelle@terraworld.net), October 22, 2001.

I don't know if the plane ridership and pleasure trips are the right example in this case, simply because more people now fly and travel than ever before, and you don't have to be rich to do so. People spend their money in different ways, and you can afford to travel if you save on other expenses, like cars for example, or housing. Some people spend more money commuting to work than on their mortgage!

As to gas prices, we are so wasteful as a country that if we really turned our energies toward solar and other renewable sources, recycling and so on, we wouldn't need to import oil from elsewhere, or at least not from the middle east.

So I don't see it as a rich/poor thing--I see it as a simple supply/ demand thing. Right now fewer people are traveling, eventually it will pick up again, or people will drive more when they add up the 2-hour wait at the airport plus the 3-hour flight, plus commute time to the airport, and if you have to then rent a car...would you rather drive 5 hours or hurry up and wait? I think the shorter airline trips will take a little longer to get their customers back.

Just my $.02.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), October 22, 2001.



The rich are great if they like animals and share their green with me!

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), October 22, 2001.

The poor do to create jobs - why, it takes at least a handful of dedicated social workers, welfare paper-pushers, child welfare agents, teachers, cops, and criminal detention specialists to care for each family of poor folks. At least, that's what government spending would indicate, anyway.

-- Soni (thomkilroy@hotmail.com), October 22, 2001.

I would say this The only rich people I like are the ones who never let you know they are rich.Yep prices are dropping all over the place here sales everywhere,the only thing going up is land it cant be replaced and it will run out at some point.

-- renee oneill{md.} (oneillsr@home.com), October 22, 2001.

Soni,

You got that right they do create jobs, although they are not jobs that add anything to society or the economy. Whey are strictly a drain on our nation.

We need the "rich" to own factories and take the risk of starting a new business. If it were not for the rich we would not have jobs like we currently have. It is too bad everybody hates the rich for what they have. Many of them should be admired for what they have accomplished in America and around the world.

The rich ones like Ted Turner who blow their own horn after donating a wad of money to the UN, make me sick. They don't want to help, they just want the attention for their "good deeds".

Better quit while I am ahead. This is a hotbutton issue for me. No am not rich.

Talk to you later.

-- Bob in WI (bjwick@hotmail.com), October 22, 2001.


Fred, The rich are like the rest of us. There are both great and not so great people who fall into the category of rich. People are people, some good, some not. Money just accentuates the differences. Besides, blaming the rich for high prices makes no sense to me. If someone is rich and wants to travel, they can charter a plane if they don't want to fly commercial.

-- Murray in ME (lkdmfarm@megalink.net), October 22, 2001.


I am sure, fred, that you would be horrified to suddenly inherit a million dollars.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), October 22, 2001.

daffodyllady I promise I'll be real good. Can I inherit that million dollars.

Fred: 62% of small businersses are started by the "poor" on shoestrings. If they pan out they go on to hire people to do all the dirty work they had to do to start with.

Gas prices dropping is a good thing. Count on it going away soon.

Not all "rich" people are bad. I know a few that help others occasionally. When I get rich (see inherit above) I'll help my neighbors. :o)

-- Kenneth in N.C. (wizardsplace13@hotmail.com), October 22, 2001.


To Bob in WI;

Your response to Soni has me totally confused as to your position. Maybe you can help me out here. You say you agree that the rich create jobs (which is a good thing). You then claim that none of those jobs add anything to our society or economy.

While you might be able to argue that some jobs may not add anything you feel is valuable to our society I think you'd have a harder time arguing that any job fails to add to the economy. By it's very definition, a paid job adds to the economy.

You then claim these entrepenuers and risk-takers are a drain on our nation. Quite the opposite is true. The vast majority of new jobs created in the nation annually come from small and start-up businesses rather than larger, established employers. Who might you think those people are but the very ones you denigrate?

You then do a total about-face and praise these entrepenuers and risk- takers for the jobs they create. You go so far as to say they should be admired for what they have done.

Bob, which side of the fence are you on here? You've gotten me really confused here.

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), October 22, 2001.


Aside to Gary and Walt: This was not intended as a "rich are bad, poor are good" Robin Hood type of argument. I don't know that we need any more poor people than we already have. And Rose has a good definition of rich, the Rush Limbaugh definition. All I'm saying is that the spending habits of the rich often create problems for the rest of us by forcing us to spend more for what we need.

-- fred (fred@mddc.com), October 22, 2001.

There aren't that many rich people to make a difference, at least to my mind. What is your definition of rich? Pro sports rich, Bill Gates rich? The vast majority of people in this country fall under the category of middle class.

And I don't think the price of Beluga Caviar matters much to homesteaders.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), October 22, 2001.



Gary, I think Bob was referring to Soni's comment that the poor create jobs through the welfare system needing social workers etc... and that these jobs create a drain through tax dollars.

-- Melissa (cmnorris@1st.net), October 22, 2001.

Gary do you know enyone rich that pays taxes? Bob se.ks.

-- Bobco (bobco@kans.com), October 22, 2001.

Belle,

You could probably trade in that old truck if the people at the factory who push the brooms didn't make $18 - $20 an hour. I can imagine what the rest make.

-- Glenn (gj_usa1@yahoo.com), October 22, 2001.


well, fred, it may be so, but guess what? I really dont give a ... whatever. I would much rather live my life focusing on the things I have been given by God to enjoy this life, than to spend my life blaming those who have more than I do, for making it hard for me to get more of what they are enjoying... at least we seem to THINK they are enjoying life.

Thankfulness is the key to happiness.

-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), October 22, 2001.


If you think Rush Limberger meant anything more than Rich, like Himself and his cronies who smoke $50 cigars, you are NAIVE

-- Laura (LauraLeekis@home.com), October 22, 2001.

A better talk radio program to listen to is Dave Ramsey, if you can get him. He's based in Nashville. His call-in program is about people and their debt. Absolutely amazing to hear the stories. His philosophy is debit is dumb and cash is king. Yahoo!! If you don't get it, maybe you could call your station and request it. It's on for three hours live, 2-5 in my zone.

-- Sandy Davis (smd2@netzero.net), October 23, 2001.

Gary in Ind

I meant to say that the poor create jobs for social workers etc, but really do not create jobs that add to the economy.

I meant to say that the rich create jobs, and they should be respected in most cases for that.

It was a lousy post. Sorry. (Did seem to make sense when I posted it.)

Talk to you later.

-- Bob in WI (bjwick@hotmail.com), October 25, 2001.


In a previous life, daffodyllady was one of the Christians sacraficed at the Coliseum. And on the day of her execution, I'm sure she was praising God that the sun was shining.

-- Sherry (lookin38@hotmail.com), October 26, 2001.

An interesting book is "The Millionaire Next Door." Sorry, don't remember the author's name (but a few clicks away is Amazon.com in case you're interested in finding it...I'm too lazy.) Millionaires are all around you and you probably wouldn't even know it. Know what kind of vehicle a millionaire drives? Jaguar? Mercedes? Maybe....but the most popular vehicle is a Ford F250 truck. Etc. Millionaires have been shown to be very hard workers (most are business owners) who saved, invested, and paid attention to the way they managed their finances and their lives.

I'm not sure what anyone's opinion is here, but care should be taken to not confuse a few well-publicized folks' idea of wealth and the wealthy with what empirical evidence indicates. Most of the rich are just like the rest of us except that they have more money...

Just the old $.02...

-- sheepish (WA) (the_original_sheepish@Hotmail.com), October 26, 2001.


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