Outside the box

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Unk's Wild Wild West : One Thread

OK, how about this?

1)--Take out Osama, Taliban and organized "terror" wherever it occurs. I see no way to avoid maximum hardball for however long it takes to eliminate the terror wherever it exists (Islamic terror, Marxist terror, narco-terror).

Pretty inside-the-box thinking so far.

2)--Here is the innovative part. I don't necessarily endorse it. But I have heard no one else suggest it. It's just an idea I had while "sitting".

After, the terrorists are defeated dead, let's pull out of Islamia, Pull out totally, everywhere from Morrocco to Malaysia. Let's dismantle any American owned property. Let's bring home every last American citizen. Let's deny any further American investment in Islamic countries whether it's in oil or cumquats. Finally, let's terminate ALL commerce, all social contact between America and Islamia. We don't buy from them, we don't sell to them. Let's boycott all products that they export, most obviously oil.

That's what "they" want right? We're despoiling their "culture", right? We are economically exploiting them, right? So, fuck em, let them do their own thing. Just don't mess with us and we won't mess with you, Carnac-boy. Let's fly the "don't tread on me" flag.

Yes, the economic dislocations in the US would be severe. The price of fuel would skyrocket. Hundreds of thousands would lose jobs.

But I think this would be temporary. The free-market would find other answers. It always does. There are many non-Islamic countries that would love to sell us more oil, especially at a higher price. Our own oil resources would be developed (gee, sorry Mr Caribou). The atmospheric pollution would decrease because the total quantity of oil burning would decrease. The OPEC cartel would be creamed. I think they need us more than we need them. Wouldn't surprise me if soon they are begging to sell us oil.

Just an idea. Probably not practical, but maybe cheaper and certainly less bloody than jihad/crusade. And there is a potential neat twist--- both cultures could end up appreciating each other more.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 16, 2001

Answers

Lars,

Funny, but my wife and I mused (longingly) about that very thing on the way to work this morning ...

Great minds must think alike. :)

They need US more than we need THEM.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), October 16, 2001.


Further, let's severe diplomatic relations with all Islamic contries that don't immediately denounce terrorism (and do something tangible to prove it is more than words). Let's terminate all student exchange programs, all travel (each way).

Let's boycott belly-dancers (sorry Roxy).

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 16, 2001.


Didn't see your post Stephen. Yes, we must prepare a white-paper.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 16, 2001.

This thought came to me as I watched Pakistani protesters trashing a UNICEF building. I remember as a little kid going out to trick or treat for UNICEF and turning in what nickels, dimes or quarters i got to donate to these ungrateful bastards. Now that I'm an adult I realize I was just a dupe of the NWO conspiracy but I thought I was doing something nice and helpful.

What with all the flag burning and rhetoric about the evil United States and underhanded attacks against us in our homes I think we should give them what they want. If this goes on long enough and enough attacks against our population are made maybe the country will have the collective will and desire to accomplish this as the price to be paid will be high.

This option might be more feasible than my other solution I thought of which is the extermination of all these bastards. Sorry, but I do occasionally get these overly strong urges to say "You want Jihad, we'll give you Jihad" and take a total war to these people that ends with a giant hog roast and kegger on top of the black box in Mecca. Of course some people might have some problems with wholesale extermination of a people and the assorted raping, pillaging and plundering that go along with it.

I think my problem is that I want so bad to see something done to these people for being such idiotic fuckheads. I even priced Afghani flags ($32.00 for a two foot by three foot up to $92.50 for an eight foot by ten foot plus shipping and handling, allow 5-7 days for delivery upon receipt of order) so I could stage a flag burning that could be beamed to their homes. But that probably wouldn't work as I would get arrested for littering or illegal burning and I really doubt that the sorry sons of bitches even have T.V.s left or the peace of mind to watch me burn their god awful ugly flag. It gives me some solace to at least plan these events, even if I don't get to follow through on them.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), October 16, 2001.


Al-Qaeda has made it very clear what they want us to change and it has nothing to do with oil or importing and exporting. In fact, it would be easy for us to meet their conditions without jeopardizing our economy or our way of life. The problem is that Dubya is having his strings pulled by the NWO elite, who want to take over the World and they won't settle for less.

Go ahead, stop buying oil from OPEC... the American oil companies would be more pissed off than OPEC would! The American oil companies would never allow that to happen in the first place... the people at the top of those companies are key players in the NWO and die-hard proponents of their agenda.

Do you guys actually believe that politicians could do what you wanted them to, as if you actually have any control over them? LOL, that's how they get assassinated!

-- nice idea (but@very.naive), October 16, 2001.



Lars you fool. Thisss vil not do. Veee heff der kuntrol now und you vill never schtopp us. NWO uber alles! Veee are vatching you.

-- (Henry the K @ Bilderbergers.konschpiracy, javohl), October 16, 2001.

try reading the prophecies in BIBLE,no amount of [man]power. will change things. if GOD would open your eye's,too whats REALLY going on,you'd freak!!!

bye bye 666.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), October 16, 2001.


Outside the Box? What a friggin joke.

This thread typifies why Americans are hated by "them". Stupid , arrogant, childish, naive, Americans who want to take their ball and go home.

We're there because your fearless leaders make money there, genuises.

Shillpoole, how long did you and your idjit wife spend on this fantasy?

-- KoFE (your@town.USSA), October 16, 2001.


Kofe, every time I find something in one of your posts that I tend to agree with you I also read your insults of other posters that make me want to step on your neck. Insulting a man's wife is BULLSHIT! Doing so from behind the curtain of anonymity is COWARDICE beyond belief.

I pity you.

-- Rich (living_in_interesting_times@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.


Well Jonathan, China might take a dim view of such a plan, but it would certainly stir the pot, so to speak.

-- Jack Booted Thug (governmentconspiracy@NWO.com), October 16, 2001.


You don't get it KoFE-Kafir. "They" don't like us. That is their right. "They" want to kill us. That is not their right. I say, let's just ignore them, boycott them, let them return to the middle ages if that is where they want to be. Fight them if they continue to attack, else just boycott them til they beg.

"Take our ball and go home"? There is no ball. This is not a game.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 16, 2001.


Neoisolationism, huh. Didn't we already learn that lesson the hard way?

-- flora (***@__._), October 16, 2001.

Rich, I was civil to these jerks for a long time, even after they started in with the insults. Most have offered nothing but insults in place of a solid debate. Fuck em all, the long, the short, the tall.

This idiot pooles first words to me were "admit it", as if he is some kind of authority. I check out his "source" and find out he's also another liar. Then, poole ADMITS he knows what I said was true, but he has other priorities. Well double fuck him, and his sorry ass wife. I say fuck him, because he's a liar and a shill who tries to hide behind his sunday school personna, and runs away when I say fuck you.

I'm not the kind of person to jump out with the insults unless provoked; so if you want to step on my neck, fuck you too.

-- KoFE (your@town.USSA), October 16, 2001.


Sounds tempting, Lars, but if we refuse to tread someplace economically, someone else will be there to fill in for us. If you're proposing a boycott of every Muslim-dominated nation by Western nations (including Japan, who is considered "Western" now,) I just don't think that will fly.

What "they" really want anyway is for Israel to go away, our women to never appear on an international broadcast again with their faces uncovered, and for every non-muslim who has stepped on Saudi soil to burn in hell. This is a tall order. They are not rational. Isolationalism on our part would have no bearing on the people who did this, but it would probably have some influence - negative - on the more moderate among the Nation of Islam.

I think I do know how you feel, though, and it would be satisfying in a strange way to remove ourselves from that part of the world completely - after taking our pound of flesh on the way out.

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), October 16, 2001.


Flora, I suggest "isolationism" only as an alternative to war. I suggest it in the sense of "embargo" (American only, although I would hope at least some of our "allies" would cooperate. Maybe they would, if there was armtwisting). IMO, the embargo should be lifted when the various Islamic nations speak and act against terrorism. Some nations will do that, some will not. So the embargo could be a a peaceful "divide and conquer" tactic. (conqering terrorism).

Not only would I advocate lifting the embargo if they show good faith, I would favor offering assistance but not until they are clearly on-board. In the meantime, I would terminate any current aid (such as the two billion+ dollars that currently go to Egypt).

There would be temporary government assistance needed for some sectors of our economy.

If terror persists, our military response persists.

Israel? IMO, that is a separate issue from terrorism. It is a legitemate issue but only when the terror stops. Personally, I am pro-Jewish but not necessarily pro-Israel. I admire Israel, I admire what they have accomplished in a land that is as poor as Syria, resource-wise. If the Arabs would only be a little more "Jewish".

But I'm not very enthused about Israel's historic claim to the land. If every nationality were to claim what was theirs 2000 years ago, what a mess.

I advocate that we withdraw financial aid to Israel as well es to Egypt. I would sell them arms, but not the latest. I would sell them, not give them. I would offer citizenship to any non-criminal Israeli who wants to immigrate here. The US would be lucky to get such resourceful people. Other than that, I say the Israelis are on their own. They are strong and smart. They can work out their own furure with their neighbors. I don't think Americans should get sucked into a military alliance with Israel. I don't see the need for Americans to take sides their unless world-peace is an issue.(Sorry Mr Israeli lobby).

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 16, 2001.



Lars,

You said that your idea was not practical and you were right. It is also dumb, and not worthy of any further discussion.

The terrorists are a very small percentage of the population that you propose to "cut off" from all the benefits of America. They live in caves and get their supplies through black markets. It is ludicrous to suggest that you could solve anything by cutting off the rest of the world.

-- (get@clue.dumb), October 16, 2001.


I'm KINDOF with you on this thought, Lars, but I'm thinking more along the lines of just withdraw from the whole thing. NO AID to ANY country. No embargos. If they want to buy our stuff, let them buy it. Just don't give it away. If Russia wants to develop oil fields and doesn't have the expertise or the money, I'd go along with supplying information and even a loan to get that done [with the caveat that products would be sold to us for X years for lower dollars until the debt on the "loan" was paid.] At that time, we'd be on our own, and hopefully have developed a lifestyle either less dependent on petroleum products or have developed sustainable resources of our own. Since other markets may provide more lucrative to Russia in this endeavor, we'd need to have a way to stop their production if they renigged on the terms of the agreement before the loan was paid. There are ways to do that, just like some software companies put intentional bugs into systems in case the client refuses to pay the bill.

I really don't think that all this "interfering" with other nations is the job of the US. I've heard all the arguments to the contrary, particularly how Israel and Palestine need a "superpower" to intercede before they blow each other up. Cold-hearted bitch that I am, I'd say, "Sorry, boys. If you need a mother to break up a fight, you haven't established ONE OUNCE of maturity, and since this fight has gone on as long as it has, I don't think you ever will. If you WANT to blow each other up, have at it."

-- Anita (Anita_S3@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.


Appreciate your response, KoFE. You pushed a button. Not that I'm Poole's wife's bodyguard, but attacking loved ones who don't participate here is out of bounds, IMO. Unless you've met his wife or interacted with her somewhere else, in which case I retract my initial statement, for you'd then be acting from a place of actual knowledge and she may very well be what you say. :)

We aren't cartoon characters behind these handles, man. There's real flesh and blood punching keys. How's a guy to take a swipe at you in this arena? Fact is he can't. Therefore I say you stepped over the line.

I remember Poole's behavior back in the Y2k days and believe me he showed one side of his personality - taking joy in repeatedly making fun of others - so I know he may very well have earned all the insults you can heave at him. AT HIM. At HIM.

Chivalry just ain't the same in cyberspace...

BTW, I believe you are in/around NJ. If you are at all into Tolkein's Lord of the Rings we're getting some people together (I just decided) to go see the first movie when it comes out in December.

[Sorry to be completely and utterly off topic, Lars]

-- Rich (living_in_interesting_times@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.


Rich, the only reason I called her an idjit is because she's too far away to slap.

I'd slap her sure as shit, just so that fat bastard would do something about it.

-- KoFE (your@town.USSA), October 16, 2001.


KoFE/Andy,

If you were to slap my wife, she would kick your head through your anus and then tie your mortal remains in a bowknot for the garbage collectors.

You are welcome to try. I will pop popcorn and watch.

From a safe distance.

-- Stephen M. Poole (smpoole7@bellsouth.net), October 16, 2001.


Stephen,

I would buy a ticket to watch that...

checkin' out the match...

The Dog

-- The Dog (dogdesert@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.


Eat'em up...Love knows no bounds!

-- (courtesy of the @ lunch. lady), October 16, 2001.


"get a clue"---

bin Laden has much popular support in the Muslim world according to my sources. (of course, as a journalist, I cannot reveal them). Has there been any significant Islamic condemnation of the WTC atrocity? I don't mean wussy words about how tragic it was. I mean outage, anger, disgust, shame that such a deed was done in the name of Islam? Please link me (if you are not too dumb).

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 16, 2001.


"outage" = outrage.

-- (lars@indy.net), October 16, 2001.

"bin Laden has much popular support in the Muslim world according to my sources. (of course, as a journalist, I cannot reveal them). Has there been any significant Islamic condemnation of the WTC atrocity? I don't mean wussy words about how tragic it was. I mean outage, anger, disgust, shame that such a deed was done in the name of Islam? Please link me (if you are not too dumb)."

Lars, you are really letting your emotional reaction cloud your perception of reality. You are being almost completely irrational, and it is difficult to get you to see any reason in this condition.

There are endless atrocities happening around the world all the time, and I don't see Americans expressing much outrage or shame. Just because all of the Islamic community does not come crying to our doorstep throwing money does not mean they all deserve to be punished. By your rationale, we should punish ALL Germans because SOME of them were Nazis.

I know that you are much more intelligent than the kind of attitudes you have expressed here recently, you are just too emotionally hung up in it to allow your intellect to function. You are allowing yourself to be controlled by your pain body instead of feeling yourself as a being separate from it, as you truly are.

Killing is NEVER an acceptable solution to killing, as a Christian I am sure you know that. You need to give up that kind of talk right away, it isn't becoming of you AT ALL. With time, I am sure you will return to your real self.

-- (that's not you @ talking. lars), October 17, 2001.


You are right of course. We are evil and Osama has done us a favor to make that so clear. In fact, the US is responsible for 92.7% of the world's injustices.

We deserve our punishment. We deserve to be stoned by the righteous men of Allah. Oh, I flagellate myself unto mortification.

BTW, I did not write this.

-- (lars@indy.net), October 17, 2001.


There you go again Lars, being completely irrational. LOL, you are putting words into other people's mouths when they have said nothing of the sort! You pretend as though those words are what you are defending against, but in reality you are simply using them to justify to yourself the unjustifiable position you have taken. You are angry, that is obvious. Give yourself some time, you'll come around.

-- anger is not the answer (you need time @ best. wishes), October 17, 2001.

What exactly will I come around to? Maybe after the next atrocity, you'll come around.

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 17, 2001.

Naturally the fat bastard has to have a snack.

-- KoFE (your@town.USSA), October 17, 2001.

Naturally the fat bastard has to have a snack.

Eh?

-- (lars@indy.net), October 17, 2001.


The fat bastard who wants to fix popcorn, Lars

-- KoFE (your@town.ussa), October 17, 2001.

And the bible says, ... please continue to read. Thanks to e-mail message @dogs...

Reasoning powers and LOVE are the only solutions to the problems of these conflicts.

The bible and cumquats for me and .... anyday, thanks.

-- Who I am (whoIam@netvision.net.il), September 07, 2002.


And the bible says, ... please continue to read. Thanks to e-mail message from the guy at .....@dogs...

Reasoning powers and love are the only solutions to the problems of these conflicts. But until they just hold up their timeclock and STOP, they will continue to fail. They are ticking timebombs.

And what does this have to do with cumquats?

-- Who I am, not who you think I am (Donttakethatawayfromme@hotmail.com), September 07, 2002.


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