The State Oct 14, 2001

Women play key role in airstrikes

By DAVE HIRSCHMAN Cox News Service

ATLANTA -- Just eight years after being allowed to fly military jets in front-line squadrons, women are so thoroughly integrated throughout the military that few Americans seem to notice they are at the controls of some of the warplanes hitting targets in Afghanistan.

Women are among the most senior Navy pilots on U.S. aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf, and some have patrolled the 'no-fly zone' over southern Iraq and dropped bombs on Bosnia. Several female pilots are stationed aboard the USS Carl Vinson and have participated in air strikes against the Taliban.

In South Carolina, a spokesperson for Shaw Air Force Base in Sumter said Thursday the 20th Fighter Wing has female pilots but couldn't immediately say how many.

Attempts were unsuccessful late Thursday to reach spokespeople at the McEntire Air National Guard Base near Columbia and the Beaufort Marine Corps Station. Sumter and McEntire pilots fly F-16 jets. Beaufort is home to F/A-18 jets.

Tom Draude, a retired Marine general and member of a 1992 presidential panel that studied allowing women in combat, said they are an essential part of U.S. forces.

"Women are a critical component of our war fighting capabilities -- and the American public recognizes and respects their contributions," said Draude, a Vietnam and Persian Gulf war veteran. "I remember being told before (the Persian Gulf War) that Americans would never tolerate women coming home in body bags -- and they tolerated it. I was told Americans would never tolerate women becoming prisoners of war -- and they tolerated that, too."

About 40,000 American women and 500,000 American men fought in the Persian Gulf War. Thirteen U.S. women were killed and two became prisoners.

Today, women comprise about 14 percent of all active-duty personnel. The Navy's first female combat pilots went to sea in 1994, a year after the law was changed to allow them to fly in combat, and participated in their first air strikes in '97 against Iraq.

Draude said female pilots flying over Afghanistan face brutal treatment if captured by the Taliban, an extremist regime that prohibits Afghan women from attending schools or having jobs. Taliban fighters routinely tortured and executed male Soviet prisoners during a 10-year war in Afghanistan. "A woman POW is going to receive especially horrific treatment," Draude said. "But they know the risks and accept them."

Missy Cummings, a U.S. Naval Academy graduate and former Navy pilot, said female fliers have overcome hostility and resentment from some of their own male shipmates. But animosity has diminished in recent years as women have proven themselves on the job.

"It's better now because women have been there longer and gained more trust," she said. "But women are still a small minority in tactical aviation. They still have a hard time gaining acceptance."

The fact that American women are flying jets and working aboard combat ships is also a source of tension for U.S. allies, such as Saudi Arabia, that prohibit women from driving cars or baring their shoulders. Military experts say American military personnel keep out of view as much as possible in Arab countries. And when U.S. women venture out in public, they abide by local customs.

American women serve in all U.S. military branches, but they are prohibited from ground combat units likely to play prominent roles in the fight against terrorism.

Lucas Carpenter, an Emory University professor and Vietnam veteran, says those exclusions, too, are likely to be challenged in the future. "That discussion is still open."

-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 15, 2001

Answers

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-- Lars (lars@indy.net), October 15, 2001.

Kind of interesting that the Taliban, who will flog a woman if her viel slips off, are having their clocks cleaned by...women.

-- (@ .), October 15, 2001.

Lars, Thank you. 30 years and it's normal. The three women and I who went into flight sims were the first women in the military to get a "man's" job. Now, finally there are no longer and Men only jobs.

-- Cherri (jessam6@home.com), October 16, 2001.

sim-u-la-tion 1. the act or process of pretending. 2. an assumption or imitation of a particular appearance or form; counterfeit; sham.

-- Boswell (fundown@thefarm.net), October 16, 2001.

I think Boswell and Cherri should throw on some long scarves, go rent a couple Sopwith Camels and have a dogfight.

-- Bemused (and_amazed@you.people), October 16, 2001.

You mean Dog and Hog fight.

-- Pigs (don't@fly.no), October 16, 2001.

Hey Bos, Have you ever SEEN a real life state of the art Flight Simulator, much less flown one? Not talking about those little Microsoft flt sim programs which are much the same as a Nintendo game compaired to a race car in comparisen.

-- Cherri (jessam6@home.com), October 16, 2001.

Cherri, where were you stationed during your duty years in flight sims? I logged a few hours in the old Link ANT-18, some at AF bases. While a valuable training aid, sim experience would hardly qualify anyone to ‘fly for real’.

-- Curious (old@fly.boy), October 16, 2001.

Oh, and Bos, this is where I used to work.

ROF LMAO

Actually it was this one. KKnow what it is?

-- Cherri (jessam6@home.com), October 16, 2001.

Curious, Carswell and Homestead, and about a dozen other bases TDY from one coast to the other in the States. Never got to go overseas. I put in for it but got redlined because they didn't want women on their sim's back then, and could get away with it. Not a guess, I was told to my face. If those old farts are still alive today, I'll bet they are having fits these days.

-- Cherri (jessam6@home.com), October 16, 2001.

Cherri, what is it with you and simulators? Seems like your whole life is rapped up in them things. And why would I be interested in sims when I can fly the real thing. And I'm not qualified in jets much less military planes and I have never wanted to be. A lot of ex-military pilots are doing what I do now and that is aerial application. And they make fine bug killers as soon as they break themselves from some habits they learned in faster planes. You can probably go to the local Army-Navy store in your area and find one of them simlators pretty cheap and it'll probably fit in your pickup. Have a nice day!

-- Boswell (fundown@thefarm.net), October 16, 2001.

I do Cherri. That is a picture of the Link C-3, which was an upgrade from the older ANT-18 and provided the first quality (for the era) instrument simulation training. These antiques are now museum pieces and could be considered ‘toys’ compared to today’s hardware AND software. I’m surprised that you never spent any time in San Antonio….Randolph, Lackland, or Brooks.

I vividly remember being stuffed into these Sims while some smart-ass earth hugger sat at the operators station and made life interesting. What’s a ‘bug’ Cherri?

Those that can, pilot. Those that cant, navigate. The rest stay on the ground and give support, which makes for a successful team. Cherri, running one of those old C-3’s is kids play compared to the software programs available today. However, if you were a Sims operator then you had a good job. But please, out of respect for those who fly, stop with your foolish fantasies that YOU can fly.

-- Curious (old@fly.boy), October 16, 2001.

BTW, that bottom shot is of a 757 simulator cockpit that happens to be owned by Boeing. Cherri, are you checked-out to operate that unit?

-- Curious (old@fly.boy), October 16, 2001.

I guess I'm a little curious too. Why would Cherri or anybody else spend that much time in a flight simulator if they weren't intending to actually complete flight training and become a pilot? And if this was done on military time, why would they sit back and allow anybody to waste so much time doing nothing? Unless she was a trouble shooter and repaired them. And even then, you just don't sit there, pretend, and make engine noises with your lips.

-- Boswell (fundown@thefarm.net), October 16, 2001.

Bos, I've been followBos, I've been following this Cherri saga and my guess is that she was a ‘tech’ in the Air Force and worked on repairing the different instruments and systems associated with flight simulators. Boeing would be a natural landing spot when she was discharged from the military, as her ‘fix-it’ skills could be put to good use in civilian life. I have real world knowledge of flight simulators and the people that operate them (teams actually). I seriously doubt that she would have ever been qualified beyond that of a repair tech, which in itself is not a bad job. People that clean out the stable always imagine themselves as Eddie Arcaro.

-- Curious (old@fly.boy), October 16, 2001.

you just don't sit there, pretend, and make engine noises with your lips.

Maybe YOU don't, bos. But, Cherri might. Putt...putt..putt..vroom!!! LOL!!

-- (The little engine@that.didn't), October 16, 2001.